S07-23 Abducted in Aether (GM prep, discussion, clarification)


GM Discussion

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Scarab Sages 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—PaizoCon

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I've read through this and it's pretty straight-forward...except for the breakdown of circumstances given on page 16 with regard to area B. The second to last paragraph of the section B synopsis either doesn't match up with the map or descriptions given for each area or doesn't make much sense. (Putting a more detailed breakdown in the hidden section to avoid accidental spoilers.)

Spoilers:
Quote:
However, due to the forbiddance effect on area B5, the PCs cannot actually enter that room while on the Ethereal Plane. They can scout out that room while inside area B2, area B4, or the corridor between area B1 and B5, but they must be careful, as Muzthari might spot them thanks to her constant true seeing ability. If attempting to scout area B5, PCs should attempt Stealth checks opposed by the sahkil’s Perception. Muzthari takes a –5 penalty (in addition to any penalties due to distance) on this check, while she focuses much of her attention on Aram Zey’s soulstone. PCs attempting this check in area B2 or B4 gain a +5 bonus thanks to the doors between the rooms.

Intuitively, area B5 seems to be referencing what is actually area B6 and what is being referenced as area B4 should actually be area B3 on the map.

Is this correct as written, or is there a wording adjustment that needs to be made? While I am inclined to run it with intuitive interpretation, it would be good to get clarification.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

This sounds... remarkably straightforward for a 7-11. I love the atmosphere--should be fun!

Besides P's question above, my only note after a first reading is both inconsequential yet true to form for our once and perhaps future Master of Spells: he's willing to owe gratitude toward the PCs, but they have to bring their own box.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Had some questions come up while running this a couple of times this weekend:

A. The ethereal plane has no gravity (reiterated in the scenario). When you go to the GMG, on a no gravity plane a creature floats in place unless it has some way of flying. So... It can take hours to explore the market alone. Even at high tier very few characters are going to have a way of flying for more than a few minutes at a time. At low tier it would be almost no-one.

I handled this by arbitrarily ruling that characters could move at their normal speed in any direction by willing it. It seems the only way to make the scenario work.

B. One of the conditions for the secondary success condition is to retrieve "all five" of the trade items. However there are actually six counting extra filled syringes as one item (as they are referred to as trade material in one place). If they get extra syringes but miss one other do they still count as fulfilling the secondary condition?

Scarab Sages 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—PaizoCon

Kevin Willis wrote:

Had some questions come up while running this a couple of times this weekend:

A. The ethereal plane has no gravity (reiterated in the scenario). When you go to the GMG, on a no gravity plane a creature floats in place unless it has some way of flying. So... It can take hours to explore the market alone. Even at high tier very few characters are going to have a way of flying for more than a few minutes at a time. At low tier it would be almost no-one.

I handled this by arbitrarily ruling that characters could move at their normal speed in any direction by willing it. It seems the only way to make the scenario work.

I ended up running it as if they were under the effects of Air Walk and just couldn't charge off the ground unless they had an effect that granted the means to fly. Otherwise, there was potential for an impossible situation.

Scarab Sages 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—PaizoCon

Another item of note: there are three different prices listed for the Apparatus of the Crab throughout the scenario. It says 45,000g when the party encounters it, 60,000g in the boon listing, and then 90,000g in the treasure list. I imagine it is at least going to be one of the two on the chronicle sheet, but it would be nice to have some clarification as to which is supposed to be correct.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think the point of the boon is to reduce the price down to 60,000gp.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Peevenator wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:

Had some questions come up while running this a couple of times this weekend:

A. The ethereal plane has no gravity (reiterated in the scenario). When you go to the GMG, on a no gravity plane a creature floats in place unless it has some way of flying. So... It can take hours to explore the market alone. Even at high tier very few characters are going to have a way of flying for more than a few minutes at a time. At low tier it would be almost no-one.

I handled this by arbitrarily ruling that characters could move at their normal speed in any direction by willing it. It seems the only way to make the scenario work.

I ended up running it as if they were under the effects of Air Walk and just couldn't charge off the ground unless they had an effect that granted the means to fly. Otherwise, there was potential for an impossible situation.

I was going to handwave the movement with the ritual that was done to get

them there. Just let them move however they normally moved unless they had other means.

Scarab Sages 3/5 5/5 *

Is there any information on just how close to the edge Aether elemental fight is? Because they can toss people 480 ft and I'm just saying that could get interesting depending on how gravity is interpreted.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Seren's Seven wrote:
Is there any information on just how close to the edge Aether elemental fight is? Because they can toss people 480 ft and I'm just saying that could get interesting depending on how gravity is interpreted.

That's part of the reason I ruled that you could just "will" yourself to move in any direction at your normal rate. At one point I had an elemental fling a character that was annoying him 480' straight up. So I let the character take run actions "downward" and he got back in 4 rounds.

Which brings up another question: If the elemental successfully throws a PC (failed Fort save) but misses on the attack roll (or just throws the target into the distance), does the thrown character still take damage?

I went with "yes, due to extreme acceleration" but I don't have any source for that.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 **

Kevin Willis wrote:
Seren's Seven wrote:
Is there any information on just how close to the edge Aether elemental fight is? Because they can toss people 480 ft and I'm just saying that could get interesting depending on how gravity is interpreted.

That's part of the reason I ruled that you could just "will" yourself to move in any direction at your normal rate. At one point I had an elemental fling a character that was annoying him 480' straight up. So I let the character take run actions "downward" and he got back in 4 rounds.

Which brings up another question: If the elemental successfully throws a PC (failed Fort save) but misses on the attack roll (or just throws the target into the distance), does the thrown character still take damage?

I went with "yes, due to extreme acceleration" but I don't have any source for that.

Yeah, they still take the damage.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe

I have a question regarding the maenads.
What kind of action is it for them to use their infectious dance?
Are they even supposed to use it during the encounter?
At high tier letting everyone roll 4 DC 21 will saves every round or be confused for 1 hour seems like a sure way to kill the party.

Scarab Sages 3/5 5/5 *

Since their tactics don't call out using it, I'm going to just not. It's clearly their most dangerous ability so I imagine if the author wanted them using it he would included it.

And while the evil side of me wants to have at least one doing it to shut down the party, I think it would ruin the fun too much if everyone is stuck confused for the remainder of the game.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Could we get comment on how to handle the lack of gravity from either the author of the scenario or some one with some authority? As-is, the ethereal plane has no gravity. There are specific rules for that. Making it up as you go along on such a big point is huge table variation. I looked up the issue in other posts, and saw that the author addressed it in

Some Other Scenario:
The Green Market

at one point as to his own scenario.

Does the Floating Market have some artificial gravity maybe? Can everyone fly at will as suggested by one GM? Could we get an answer to provide some clarity?

Thanks.

Akeela

Silver Crusade 4/5

Had a lot of fun playing this yesterday. Our GM ruled that we could just move at will as if we had air walk, which seems reasonable.

In the end, one of the maenads used its dance only after we'd finished the main fight and were beating on them so badly that it had nothing better to do. I believe it was already blinded at the time. Two of us failed the save (at a 7 player table). Since it was the end of the scenario, the GM just hand waved it once we killed the thing. We had plenty of magic to get new saves to undo the confusion eventually, and a pregen Kyra with plenty of channels and wand charges left to just keep healing anyone who got hurt in the mean time. I had no idea it was supposed to last an hour, though. Usually, confusion is just one round per level, so I figured it would only be 6-8 rounds, even if we never made the save.

My one complaint about the scenario was that the plot felt a little disjointed. You spend all this time getting items to trade for the soul, only to have the soul become unavailable to buy, so you end up going to rescue it instead. It just makes it feel like all that work in the early part of the adventure was a waste of time.

Other than that, it was a fun adventure overall. I did enjoy every part of it, but it just feels like you did two unrelated scenarios, with a disjointed break between them.

5/5

Skredli Oxbreaker wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
Seren's Seven wrote:
Is there any information on just how close to the edge Aether elemental fight is? Because they can toss people 480 ft and I'm just saying that could get interesting depending on how gravity is interpreted.

That's part of the reason I ruled that you could just "will" yourself to move in any direction at your normal rate. At one point I had an elemental fling a character that was annoying him 480' straight up. So I let the character take run actions "downward" and he got back in 4 rounds.

Which brings up another question: If the elemental successfully throws a PC (failed Fort save) but misses on the attack roll (or just throws the target into the distance), does the thrown character still take damage?

I went with "yes, due to extreme acceleration" but I don't have any source for that.

Yeah, they still take the damage.

I asked The monster designer and the author about this, they said no. You require both a failed save and successful attack roll to deal damage, missing the attach means you waste your action.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Anyone else seeing the troll market from hellboy 2? Because i am totally seeing the troll market from hellboy 2.

3/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Prepping this to run next week and agree some clarification on movement rules would be useful. Several posts above have indicated that their GMs used Air Walk rules. Until I read that I was planning to use the movement rules for the ethereal status gained from other spells:

"An ethereal creature is invisible, insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. An ethereal creature can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sight and hearing onto the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet."

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Texas—Austin

I am running this scenario next week, and the no gravity thing is concerning.

So far we have use airwalk, use ethereal spells, use normal speed but in 3D.

Plus I think the technology guide has rules for moving in 0 gravity, although I do no know if those are different than the ones in the GMG.

Also the rules mention that a creature moving in a given direction keeps doing so until something stops them. So if you get flung by the elemental and do not have magical flight, do you just keep going and going and going and going?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Anyone else seeing the troll market from hellboy 2? Because i am totally seeing the troll market from hellboy 2.

We had three if not more world of darkness players at the table and it was immediately picked up as a goblin market (basically Hellboy 2 market) as well.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

The goblin market theme is an excellent one.

Has anyone thought about exactly how Muzthari's poison would interact with animal companions and mounts? I am thinking that it pretty clearly would prevent a poisoned mount or AC from taking orders, but I'm not 100% sure how a poisoned rider/owner would treat their erstwhile friend. Going to think on it before tomorrow's game, but if any of you have given it thought I wouldn't mind hearing about it.

Paizo Employee 4/5 Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

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Regarding the Apparatus

The 45,000 gp cost listed in the scenario is primarily to address any GMs who might be using this adventure outside of the organized play format. 60,000 is the intended, subsidized price for the apparatus of the mantis, as I want to provide players a reasonable chance to afford and enjoy such an item in Tier 7–11 play.

Regarding Gravity
I asked around, and there's not really a "right" answer, assuming one has traveled to the Ethereal Plane by means of plane shift; by the book, it's a no-gravity plane. On the other hand, there are several ethereal natives like phase spiders and xill that would be lost in a truly no-gravity realm. This is a bigger conundrum than can quite be answered in that context, so for the purposes of this adventure, treat the PCs as if they were under the effects of ethereal jaunt allowing them to move in any direction (only at half speed when going up). This is really close to the clever air walk interpretation that several of you devised.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

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After the Scenario report:

Mission Briefing:

TWF Slayer has a phobia of rugs, begins chopping up one of the dangerous foul beasts on Sorrina's floor. Fails will save, is held, is wheeled out of the mission briefing on a dolly. Swashbuckler is frustrated at being sent into another mission with no information, no supplies, and very little background. Question of "How did you even get this invitation? Can you get another one?" was answered with something to the effect of "We just recently learned of the bazaar and have not yet been able to do due diligence. That's why we're sending you, our most experienced team available. As for how we got it, Kreighton has had to... call in some favors and pay some costs that I am not entirely sure he can afford to pay again." Seemed to go okay. Wizard felt touched. Boy would she ever!

Tearing a hole to the ethereal:

People see Kreighton looking around and start throwing things to catch his attention. No gravity, no friction means that anything that starts going, never stops going, I decide. Roll direction on a dagger. Is that really..? Yeah, that's going right over the market! What the hell am I going to do with that? I have to do something with that later.

Looking around the market:

Slayer walks into the middle of the market and yells, "I want to trade my services for something!" (or pretty close.) Gets a response from Mr. Null. Wizard loses one spell slot to the device, slayer gets sad when she hears a sad goat sound from hers, and asks for directions to someone who can use her services. Gets pointed to... oh, how about the phase spider?

Phase spider does her thing. Hears about Null and tells the party, "This is bazaar. Always negotiate. Never take first offer!" Surprisingly useful improv there, would come back up later. There's no description for what's in this stupid book! Or even what it looks like! Okay, so I ad-lib it's 2' by 3' sheets of parchment bound with fine greenish chain between two heavy stone slabs. No title on cover. Contains fragments of an archon's report on all the evil acts that have ever been performed. Party negotiates successfully. Party is too scared of the book to ever open the book.

GM thinks, "I need to liven things up a bit. Who else do we have here? Well, you meet this ghost..." Ghost doesn't talk. "This big blue guy... knowledge planes please! Mercane, as it turns out, talks to the ghost, doesn't get anything. Walks past you." In a few more words. The party stops him. He says, "I'm only interested in buying. Are you selling?" Party is OVERJOYED. We spend 20 minutes going through inventory lists to sell off at full market value all the dumb stuff they bought at level 2 and never sold. Hunter has been skulking around the market making hide checks, sells off the scroll of fungal infestation she bought for Waking Rune and discovered was totally useless. After that we skip ahead and they find the caulborn and sell their memories and all that.

322:

They go talk to 322. 322 says there's competition from other bidders, they don't ask about it. They try to proffer the stuff they've got, which is almost everything. 322 puts them off. I know third-eye guy should come in at this point, but eh, whatever. Obese mercane wanders in. Holds out a bunch of stuff arrayed in front of 322. 322 shakes her head and says something quietly. Perception checks? Well, it's a pile of stuff... looks like you might have sold him most of it. There's a familiar looking scroll on top. 322 told him "The high bid has gone up again, I'm sorry. That is too low."

322 looks sad, the PCs think. The hunter says, "I know what I'll do! Everyone loves PONIES, right??" Pony is summoned. Pony is utterly confused at being in a no gravity environment and freaks out, kicking and slowly spinning around. Its feet break some glass cases, PC lassos it, pulls it around, 322 is nearly kicked in the face. She backs up against the side of the tent. You see a gleam in her eye and a rent is torn in the fabric of the plane. You hear the sound of wind screaming through the hole even though you feel no wind. Huge spiked tentacles reach out of the rift and wrap around the pony, freezing where they touch. They pull the pony through the rift, which closes up almost as quickly as it formed. You now have a 46-foot rope. 322 tells party to leave.

Dragon and Elementals:

Party talks to dragon, I remind them: "What have you been told here?" "Oh yeah, never take the first offer!" They negotiate and do well.

Fight the elementals but even after having been warned of invisible elementals and having had a long discussion about invisibility purge and natural invisibility, they walk in with no ability to actually see invisible things. (They have the atomizer and glitterdust, but that requires some aim...) I look at the aether elementals. Hmm, I didn't actually prep as well as I thought I did. Telekinetic throw? This... doesn't actually work the way I thought it did, does it? Well, you get thrown, and you get thrown! Make your DCs. Okay, one person takes a bunch of damage. The party starts freaking out--"Where are we getting hit from! I can't see anything! I decide pretty quickly that since I'm not sure how this thing works--but it's clearly awesome--well, let's keep doing it, make it a melee attack so the elementals are at least close and this doesn't turn into a TPK. Glitterdust basically makes this encounter doable at that point, but it would have been horrific if I hadn't have run it completely wrong. Dragon's happy, hands over a prize. Party is thrilled that they finally got something happy! It plays a dirge they've never heard before the next time they opened it. That'll show 'em.

Back to see 322:

322 shows up, Aslynne makes her first appearance, 322 bleeds and acts weird. I play up the creepiness--gave 322 a higher pitched voice and Aslynn a deeper, demanding, angry voice. Turn my head awkwardly and spin around to start it off, point at things with unusual elbow position, etc. Party intimidates the crap out of the Maenad. They begin negotiations with Aslynn by demanding exactly what Aslynn is going to give them. Score! One win for the well-written scenario. They then kneecap the maenad with Trusty Buddy and the Swashbuckler flings her straight up into the Aether. They see a flash of light, the slayer makes an attack roll, and the maenad begins spurting blood and her course has changed ever so slightly...

At this point I need to get 322 back because they never demanded to speak to Aslynn before, so through little fault of their own they haven't had a chance to pick up this boon. 322 relays Aslynn information by saying Aslynn told her to do this or giving away the lamp is fine, whatever. The diplomancers make a push to get her to join the PFS, the non-diplomancers argue that she's fine, we shouldn't bug her, she already said no. Party has an argument about it. I reluctantly award diplomancers only with the Acquainted with 322 boon. 322 pulls out a scroll and does teleportation.

I was a little unhappy with how the "Acquainted with 322" boon was disbursed. It was pretty specific so it wasn't something I wanted to overrule by GM fiat too much, but people didn't want to push the issue because they thought she really wanted them to go away. Not a big deal and my table probably had an unusual conversation about it, but it didn't make me feel really good as a person at the end.

The Gardens:

So, the party spots the golem (and thinks the apparatus of the crab is another golem), sees the maenads, and then... tries but fails to go through the wall where the forbiddence effect is. They look through the broken door, see BBEG, and she rolls a natural 18 to see them. Surprise round starts, she steps into the ethereal plane. Things are not going well for the party and they flee rather quickly. Wizard is poisoned and is slowly losing touch with his companions. Obscuring Mist goes up. Slayer says, "Elf this!" and goes Prime Material.... in the foyer. Oops. Pulls the iron golem. BBEG is taken down in essentially one full-attack by the swasbhuckler, but that iron golem is trouble. It ends up in an acid pit and the hunter breaks it into pieces with durable adamantine arrows while griping about action economy and trying to get her pet bear out of the ethereal plane. In the meantime, the wizard is sucking down potions like nobody's business and missing out on beneficial spells. The slayer tries to full-round-action feed him a potion and I make him try a bluff check to con his friend into taking his medicine. Having effectively one Wisdom makes this both better and worse.

Eventually we sort of run out of time. The maenads run away and the potted plants are nuked from orbit. Nobody can dispel the Forbiddence so they eat a huge amount of damage to get the orb. Aram Zey empathically broadcasts fear, anger, and abject disdain the whole way, but no further communication is possible. Whelp, this must be the legit crystal.

Full prestige, XP, and mental trauma, hooray!

Also: this was a beast to prepare for, and I still screwed things up. Even with a notecard with 20+ things in parallel to worry about! Muzthari is fantastically well-constructed, but at high tier especially she is a little too complicated, IMO, to make a good one-off BBEG.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Any official word on the other four questions?

1. Are the map references in the text of Area B wrong? (Pretty sure everyone agrees with Peevenator on this one, just included for completeness.)

2. One of the conditions for the secondary success condition is to retrieve "all five" of the trade items. However there are actually six counting extra filled syringes as one item (as they are referred to as trade material in one place). If they get extra syringes but miss one other do they still count as fulfilling the secondary condition?

3. What is the effect of the Aether Elementals' Telekinetic Throw if the creature fails the Fortitude save to avoid being thrown but the elemental misses with the attack roll?
a. The thrown creature either doesn't move or "boomerangs" back and takes no damage.
b. The thrown creature takes damage as normal (but the target doesn't).
c. Neither creature takes damage but the thrown creature ends up end a different location than the one it started in.

If b or c is true then does the thrown creature:
- i. End up adjacent to the intended target,
- ii. End up 480 feet away (it is a zero-gravity plane, after all), or
- iii. Some other final destination?

3(follow-up). Can the elemental throw a creature without a target (480 feet away)?

4. What kind of action is it for the Maenads to use their infectious dance? How does one "break free of the dance?" Does making your save render you immune to further dancing by that Maenad for a period of time?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Kevin Willis wrote:
4. What kind of action is it for the Maenads to use their infectious dance? How does one "break free of the dance?" Does making your save render you immune to further dancing by that Maenad for a period of time?

Dunno about the other three, but I can answer this one.

Infectious Dance is an Su ability, with no listed activation action, so it'd default to a standard.

Breaking free would require something that negates the Confusion. Unbreakable Heart, Calm Emotions, etc. Note: the only effects that end when a target breaks free, are the temporary HP, and Charisma increase.

Nope. That's one of the things which makes Maenads for horrifying.

3/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I have the same questions about Telekinetic Throw as Kevin... With the additional one of:

5) Since I believe the ruins/temple/alter on the mappack are material they can't throw a PC into the ruins. But is there anything stopping them from throwing the PC into the force disk floor? 480' in a round so ~80' in a second = standing upright to hitting a force disk with your face at 55+ mph. That will leave a mark.

Or does the force disk floor not exist in these ruins and we have to account for PCs with a negative altitude?

Unless we see an authoritative response I was leaning toward: no damage unless the thrown PC hits another object/creature on the ethereal plane (e.g. successful attack roll), but yes to still launching a PC 480' in any direction on a failed save.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe

I have one question regarding the Zey’s Gratitude boon.
The last sentence says

Quote:
Check the box that precedes this boon when you use the spell-like ability.

but there is no box.

I guess there is supposed to be a box and only one (not multiples) to make the spellcasting a one-use ability.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Nils Janson wrote:

I have one question regarding the Zey’s Gratitude boon.

The last sentence says
Quote:
Check the box that precedes this boon when you use the spell-like ability.

but there is no box.

I guess there is supposed to be a box and only one (not multiples) to make the spellcasting a one-use ability.

I prefer to think of it as the cost of doing business with Aram Zey.

Terminalmancer wrote:
[...] Besides P's question above, my only note after a first reading is both inconsequential yet true to form for our once and perhaps future Master of Spells: he's willing to owe gratitude toward the PCs, but they have to bring their own box.

Dark Archive 2/5 *

Duplicate treasure:
B1. Grand Foyer, Treasure: Among other things, a +1 cold iron rapier in Subtier 7-8; +1 keen cold iron rapier in Subtier 10-11.
Later, in B4. Smoking Room, Treasure: +1 cold iron rapier in Subtier 7-8; +1 keen cold iron rapier in Subtier 10-11.

Were there meant to be two identical treasures like this?
What would you replace one with? I'm thinking flaming instead of keen gives the team an advantage in the final battle, so I may play that by ear, if I think the party needs it.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

I haven't done the wealth calculation to see if it was copied instead of moved during development, but I just went with it as written. It's Galt, there are bound to be a ton of rapiers around.

In the back of my mind, it was also a pretty good solution for the potential "The PCs panicked, dropped their weapons in the ethereal plane, and BBEG scooped them up and left them in the Forbiddance effect" problem.

4/5

running this for the first time in a few days - does anyone have a good cheat sheet for how to run a mesmerist? I've read over the Mesmerist a few times but I'm worried I still don't fully grok how to run one having never played one and only rarely seen them (mostly as other NPCs haven't yet see a PC mesmerist as a regular character)

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Are you worried about the BBEG in particular or are you challenged with the mesmerist in general?

The BBEG on high tier is ridiculously complex and it's not just the mesmerist that does it, so I have a cheat sheet on a giant notecard I can digitize and upload tonight--but it doesn't deal with the basics of mesmerists, so I don't know if it will help you in the ways you were hoping it would.

4/5

Shannon Clark wrote:
running this for the first time in a few days - does anyone have a good cheat sheet for how to run a mesmerist? I've read over the Mesmerist a few times but I'm worried I still don't fully grok how to run one having never played one and only rarely seen them (mostly as other NPCs haven't yet see a PC mesmerist as a regular character)

When I get home tonight I'll upload my notes to the GM shared prep drive, and post the link here. I prep by putting each NPC/monster onto 4x6 index cards. For really complicated stuff (like the BBEG) I print out the specific class features, formatted for 4x6, then just add them to the cards as needed.

4/5

Terminalmancer wrote:
...so I have a cheat sheet on a giant notecard I can digitize and upload tonight.

Yes, please! I'm running this Saturday, and while I think I'm good to go, looking at other people's notes is always good.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

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Cheat sheet for high tier Muzthari is up:
http://pfsprep.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?985.last

If you've got a pretty good working memory, you might not need this, but I sure did!

It's late so I can't rule out that I screwed something up. Yell at me about it and I'll fix it.

4/5

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Terminalmancer wrote:

Cheat sheet for high tier Muzthari is up:

http://pfsprep.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?985.last

If you've got a pretty good working memory, you might not need this, but I sure did!

It's late so I can't rule out that I screwed something up. Yell at me about it and I'll fix it.

Thanks!

I've added my stuff there as well.

GM Shared Prep.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Terminalmancer wrote:
It's late so I can't rule out that I screwed something up. Yell at me about it and I'll fix it.

YOU SCREWED SOMETHING UP!

(Sorry, you told me to yell, so I did)

Change second point of the "Start of the PC's turn" section to say "apply a -2 penalty on Will saving throws." the Mesmerist's stare penalty doesn't apply to fort/ref, unless you've got some Bold Stares she doesn't have.

Change the only point of "At the start of Muzthari's turn" to read "May spend a swift action to choose a new target for..." The Mesmerist's stare requires you to spend a swift action in order to place it on a target. This is relevant because it means she can't use a a swift action to Kn:Planes and go Ethereal on any round she stares at a new target.

The Mesmerist's painful stare only triggers once per round. So under the "Muzthari takes a Standard Action", adjust point 2 to say "The first attack which connects..." Also make this change on point 4 of the last section.
Also, note it's precision damage, so PCs may have something to negate it.

Change the word "Opponent" in points 1 and 2 under the last section to "Target." Not critical, just makes the intent clearer.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

So can only one PC earn the Acquainted with 322 boon?

Acquainted with 322:
PCs who offer to heal her or worry out loud that the night hag is a harming influence on the elf are met with a derisive laugh. “You want to save me? Will you take me away from all this? Please. Everyone who has ever claimed to have my best interests at heart has only used me. At least now it is a fair exchange.” A PC who insists and succeeds at a DC 20 Diplomacy check (DC 25 in Subtier 10–11) is still rebuffed, but a bit more gently this time. That PC earns the Acquainted with 322 boon.

When I played it my GM ruled that way, I just wanted to see if anybody else had an opinion.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Texas—Austin

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I read it is any PC who makes effort to help 322 gets a chance at the diplomacy roll, and the ones who make the DC recieve the boon.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I see why the GM ruled that way, but I would not read the wording quite so legalistically. If only one PC makes the effort, then certainly, but as long as the party all express interest in her well-being I would give them the boon.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe

When i GMed it at Tuesday, i let everyone role diplomacy. The way it is worded it seems to be intended as an individual boon

3/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Since it says"That PC", I ran it the same way as Partizanski, each PC could make their own diplo to determine if they got the boon if they were insisting on helping her (eg no aiding or one party roll)

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

That is how I ran it as well. Any PC interested and able to make that diplomacy check got it.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Disk Elemental wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
It's late so I can't rule out that I screwed something up. Yell at me about it and I'll fix it.

YOU SCREWED SOMETHING UP!

(Sorry, you told me to yell, so I did)

Change second point of the "Start of the PC's turn" section to say "apply a -2 penalty on Will saving throws." the Mesmerist's stare penalty doesn't apply to fort/ref, unless you've got some Bold Stares she doesn't have.

Change the only point of "At the start of Muzthari's turn" to read "May spend a swift action to choose a new target for..." The Mesmerist's stare requires you to spend a swift action in order to place it on a target. This is relevant because it means she can't use a a swift action to Kn:Planes and go Ethereal on any round she stares at a new target.

The Mesmerist's painful stare only triggers once per round. So under the "Muzthari takes a Standard Action", adjust point 2 to say "The first attack which connects..." Also make this change on point 4 of the last section.
Also, note it's precision damage, so PCs may have something to negate it.

Change the word "Opponent" in points 1 and 2 under the last section to "Target." Not critical, just makes the intent clearer.

Ha, you are (mostly) correct. Thanks! Some of these I even had right on the written notecard but munged up in the doc. File is updated.

The last note is not what you think it is--the Maenads are not immune to Muzthari's gaze attack, so they have a chance at being panicked just like the PCs. Since they're not trying to take out their erstwhile boss, there's no real penalty for averting their eyes, though, and they have a +4 bonus to their already respectable will saves vs. emotion effects.

4/5

Thanks! Very helpful - I realize that the final boss is complicated which is why I wanted to see other folk's prep (and I'm still slowing figuring out Mesmerists - haven't been able to play with as much of the Occult book as I might like to have)

on the other matter being discussed, I think I would rule that any PC that aided on a diplomacy check with 322 would gain the boon - I'll leave it to how the PC's RP that section - but there are bunch of elements of this scenario that I suspect many players may be disappointed in this boon is just one of them (the faction specific boon is another). Lots of ways people can miss whole parts of this scenario - that said, I'lm looking forward to running it - even if the mechanics of the final encounter worry me a bit (navigating who is in which plane, the forbiddance effect etc.

Related to the later - where have people drawn the line for the Forbiddance effect? Have you just used the whole room? Or extended it in any direction? (technically it would likely be at least 2 60' squares but the room is just bigger than 60' in one direction and smaller in the other direction.

This also seems like a scenario where the differences between high and low tier are significant - perhaps more so than usual - as are the differences for 4 players (removing the advanced simple template in a few places may get tricky)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

First, I want to make a note about calling this scenario back when. Thank you Paizo, call me anytime!

As for the adventure, it was cool, but we somehow trekked our way through a whole lot of needless toil. Didn't realise the elementals weren't needed for success and spent about 2 hours doing piddle damage and failing grapple checks(woo, cmd 52!) until we finally lucked out on the rolls and they were done. This combat was so disheartening(nobody had amulets of elemental strife, one character was grapple-based and one used precision damage almost entirely) and saw the retreat of our entire frontline. Three rounds later the aetherlings were down. Backrow best row.

This kinda blew the wind from our sails and we fast-forwarded most of the juicy dimensional roleplaying. My character spent a boon and reminded 322 of her common decency(rolled 18 and barely passed), but otherwise we sped forward because everyone was expecting a long boss fight and we didn't want to drag out the slot any more.

Well, it was over before it even began, with Muzthari taking 13 attacks before having a chance to act. We loved the maenad troops though. Pathfinder kill team teleports inside the perimeter, shoots the boss and her goons, sets the room on fire and hauls the still-on-fire plant creature next to the doors and these ladies decide to take a few turns to party. My kinda people!

I decided to not ever spend Zey's Gratitude. It's just so rare. The prettiest things ever and infinitely precious to me.

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Shannon Clark wrote:
ve people drawn the line for the Forbiddance effect? Have you just used the whole room? Or extended it in any direction? (technically it would likely be at least 2 60' squares but the room is just bigger than 60' in one direction and smaller in the other direction.

To be honest rather than spending more time on prep to figure out just what the implications of 60' cubes at CL 12 would mean, I just decided that the Forbiddance was tied precisely to the room and so it was bounded by the walls, doors, and just continued the line through open doorway to the hall.

3/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Terminalmancer wrote:


To be honest rather than spending more time on prep to figure out just what the implications of 60' cubes at CL 12 would mean, I just decided that the Forbiddance was tied precisely to the room and so it was bounded by the walls, doors, and just continued the line through open doorway to the hall.

Ditto

4/5

So not a great scenario at least on run one.

One player bailed after a few minutes. Decided he didn't like the way the game was heading. (As a player I haven't had this happen very often but I don't want a player who isn't having fun)

The whole bazaar scenes while random and weird were almost entirely pointless. I hate how disconnected they were from the final scenes.

The element fight took out the party witch with one telekinetic throw and later took out his familiar (beast bonded so was in the midst of combat). So not a ton of fun for that player. And the elements were hard. They did finally kill them (and impressively the monk maneuver specialist was actually able to grapple one). But there was a lot of effects going on.

The final battle was brutal and in the end escaped to the ethereal plane to avoid death. The party did impressively all drop out of the ethereal plan and basically one shot the meneads - who barely got any attacks in before they were all dropped. One tried to flee but was hexed by the witch. The forbiddence plus gazillions other effects and saves and attacks was pretty brutal. Characters were fleeing and being brutalized - I think mesmerism levels on a creature with already good attacks and lots of them is quite brutal. As a GM it may be my new trick for creatures who are far tougher than their CR would imply.

4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Shannon Clark wrote:
They did finally kill them (and impressively the monk maneuver specialist was actually able to grapple one). But there was a lot of effects going on.

No one tell N'h'shar. He'll never get over it.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Kevin Willis wrote:

Any official word on the other four questions?

1. Are the map references in the text of Area B wrong? (Pretty sure everyone agrees with Peevenator on this one, just included for completeness.)

2. One of the conditions for the secondary success condition is to retrieve "all five" of the trade items. However there are actually six counting extra filled syringes as one item (as they are referred to as trade material in one place). If they get extra syringes but miss one other do they still count as fulfilling the secondary condition?

3. What is the effect of the Aether Elementals' Telekinetic Throw if the creature fails the Fortitude save to avoid being thrown but the elemental misses with the attack roll?
a. The thrown creature either doesn't move or "boomerangs" back and takes no damage.
b. The thrown creature takes damage as normal (but the target doesn't).
c. Neither creature takes damage but the thrown creature ends up end a different location than the one it started in.

If b or c is true then does the thrown creature:
- i. End up adjacent to the intended target,
- ii. End up 480 feet away (it is a zero-gravity plane, after all), or
- iii. Some other final destination?

3(follow-up). Can the elemental throw a creature without a target (480 feet away)?

4. What kind of action is it for the Maenads to use their infectious dance? How does one "break free of the dance?" Does making your save render you immune to further dancing by that Maenad for a period of time?

Anyone have any more recent info on these questions? Looks like I'm running this right after a con this week, so any short-cuts I can take in prep would be immensely helpful! :)

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