Spiked Bashing Shields deal 1d8 or 2d6?


Rules Questions

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Gisher: I just checked the PRD, and in both the Armor and Weapons sections, they refer exclusively to Armor Spikes. Maybe the UE Errata didn't hit the PRD yet.

**EDIT** I just downloaded and checked the UE 2nd printing Errata PDF document. The only mention of Klars is them being added to the Close Fighter Weapon Group. There is no mention of Armor Spikes, Shield Spikes, or anything else related to the Klar being changed. So I have no idea where you got that text from, but from what I can tell, it's made up, according to the PRD and UE 2nd printing Errata PDF sources, which are the official, Paizo-endorsed rules sources.

I take great offense at your suggestion that I am lying. I cut and pasted those quotes directly from my 2nd printing UE pdf. Is that not an official, Paizo-endorsed rules source?


The shield spike wording is in the new weapon section, but not the new armor section for klars.


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Melkiador wrote:
The shield spike wording is in the new weapon section, but not the new armor section for klars.

*Sigh*

Once again, here is the Armor Description.

"UE 2nd printing: Weapon Descriptions, page 12 wrote:

Klar

The traditional form of this tribal weapon is a short blade bound to the skull of a large horned lizard, but a skilled smith can craft one entirely out of metal. A traditional klar counts as a light wooden shield with armor spikes; a metal klar counts as a light steel shield with shield spikes.

As I said before, the traditional Klar still uses that phrasing, but the metal one doesn't. So of the four previous mentions of "armor spikes" only one remains, and that one now contradicts the weapon description for the traditional Klar. It really shouldn't be too difficult to figure out which of these things doesn't belong.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Gisher: I just checked the PRD, and in both the Armor and Weapons sections, they refer exclusively to Armor Spikes. Maybe the UE Errata didn't hit the PRD yet.

**EDIT** I just downloaded and checked the UE 2nd printing Errata PDF document. The only mention of Klars is them being added to the Close Fighter Weapon Group. There is no mention of Armor Spikes, Shield Spikes, or anything else related to the Klar being changed. So I have no idea where you got that text from, but from what I can tell, it's made up, according to the PRD and UE 2nd printing Errata PDF sources, which are the official, Paizo-endorsed rules sources.

I take great offense at your suggestion that I am lying. I cut and pasted those quotes directly from my 2nd printing UE pdf. Is that not an official, Paizo-endorsed rules source?

I'm with you on this one, Gisher. I checked, too (just to be sure), and since the PRD hasn't yet been updated with the errata, there are two documents which are relevant:

1) The Ultimate Equipment Errata document, which lists the changes made.
2) Ultimate Equipment 2nd Printing, which is the actual rule book.

Using the errata document is a shortcut, and while it is certainly supposed to have all of the changes in it, it is a poor choice over the actual rules text from the rulebook in question.

And since the rules text in Ultimate Equipment has been updated in almost all cases to reflect the use of shield spikes when talking about the klar, it's pretty safe to assume that the one that got missed was an oversight.


Gisher wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
The shield spike wording is in the new weapon section, but not the new armor section for klars.
*Sigh*

You misunderstood. I was basically backing you up and helping Scott find his mistake. I was just on the go and wasn't overly verbose about it.


Melkiador wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
The shield spike wording is in the new weapon section, but not the new armor section for klars.
*Sigh*
You misunderstood. I was basically backing you up and helping Scott find his mistake. I was just on the go and wasn't overly verbose about it.

Ah, I did misunderstand. My apologies.


I had actually made the same mistake as Scott before that post. I had searched my pdf for klar and right away I see "armor spikes", and just stopped there. I didn't keep reading to see shield spikes and then didn't go to the weapons entry to see double shield spikes.

And of course, the errata document doesn't mention that change at all.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

So can we all agree now that any reference to armor spikes is actually shield spikes?


@Chemlak

Yes I also consider the book itself to be the primary source. This errata seems to be particularly incomplete. These aren't the first changes that I've found not to be listed.


James Risner wrote:
So can we all agree now that any reference to armor spikes is actually shield spikes?

Yeah, at least for klar and the spiked shields, I don't know if there are any other outstanding instances. I always thought it was a slim chance it wasn't anyway, but a slim chance is still a chance.

Unfortunately, there are still too many questions about the klar, but maybe we should take those up in your new klar thread.


Gisher wrote:

@Chemlak

Yes I also consider the book itself to be the primary source. This errata seems to be particularly incomplete. These aren't the first changes that I've found not to be listed.

And that's fair. After all, mistakes made in the first place will get overlooked and then updated again. Errata isn't the end of everything it's just the most current. In this particular case, the most current repeated mistake of missing one thing while fixing another.

But as was pointed out earlier, nobody is perfect.


Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Gisher: I just checked the PRD, and in both the Armor and Weapons sections, they refer exclusively to Armor Spikes. Maybe the UE Errata didn't hit the PRD yet.

**EDIT** I just downloaded and checked the UE 2nd printing Errata PDF document. The only mention of Klars is them being added to the Close Fighter Weapon Group. There is no mention of Armor Spikes, Shield Spikes, or anything else related to the Klar being changed. So I have no idea where you got that text from, but from what I can tell, it's made up, according to the PRD and UE 2nd printing Errata PDF sources, which are the official, Paizo-endorsed rules sources.

I take great offense at your suggestion that I am lying. I cut and pasted those quotes directly from my 2nd printing UE pdf. Is that not an official, Paizo-endorsed rules source?

Making stuff up and lying are two different things, even if they appear similar in effect, or possibly synergistic. Regardless of whether that is the case or not, that is besides the point:

The official PRD that is currently updated with Paizo Errata, and the UE 2nd Errata printing document that I downloaded from this address makes no such change as you've posted. So people aren't going to come to that same conclusion unless they re-downloaded the already-errata'd PDF from the site, which isn't everyone, nor may they actually believe that's the case, since most everyone who cites rules for people on the forums here do use the PRD over whatever PDFs they may possess, myself included (usually for ease of reference to the poster[s] who ask).

I will go ahead and say that even if you are correct (which you probably are), it doesn't solve anything, and further creates inconsistency.


How the hell are you both looking at the same document and not seeing the same thing?


Cavall wrote:
How the hell are you both looking at the same document and not seeing the same thing?

They aren't the same.

I'm taking the 1st print UE and applying the 2nd print UE Errata to it. (Also, I'm using the PRD.)

He has a copy of the 2nd print UE PDF.

They should be the same. But they aren't.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Cavall wrote:
How the hell are you both looking at the same document and not seeing the same thing?

They aren't the same.

I'm taking the 1st print UE and applying the 2nd print UE Errata to it. (Also, I'm using the PRD.)

He has a copy of the 2nd print UE PDF.

They should be the same. But they aren't.

Ok so his is more official then? Actual printing vs patch to an earlier edition? Then there isn't really an issue now that we can see that.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Cavall wrote:
How the hell are you both looking at the same document and not seeing the same thing?

They aren't the same.

I'm taking the 1st print UE and applying the 2nd print UE Errata to it. (Also, I'm using the PRD.)

He has a copy of the 2nd print UE PDF.

They should be the same. But they aren't.

You owe him an apology for accusing him of making stuff up.


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Cavall wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Cavall wrote:
How the hell are you both looking at the same document and not seeing the same thing?

They aren't the same.

I'm taking the 1st print UE and applying the 2nd print UE Errata to it. (Also, I'm using the PRD.)

He has a copy of the 2nd print UE PDF.

They should be the same. But they aren't.

Ok so his is more official then? Actual printing vs patch to an earlier edition? Then there isn't really an issue now that we can see that.

Technically yes. But the PRD and the Errata document doesn't reflect that. And there's no reason as to why that is. Bad Errata is bad, I guess?

@ BNW: I apologize, if only because Paizo can't really get their s!@# straight. After all, that's the only reason such a debacle occurred.

Community Manager

Locking thread. If you have a different query that you'd like answered, please bring it up in a separate thread.

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