
Hogeyhead |

So I've always wanted to make a battle wizard. A wizard that goes into the thick of it with sword and spell. I realize I could just make a magus. I don't wanna, okay?
Anyways, the melee wizard is pretty hard to build, there are a lot of factors going against you, a lot of them can be solved with a dip. I don't wanna. Anywho after long deliberation in idle hours I came up with a build. I should caution munchkins: the following is not optimal! You have been warned.
First off although I don't dip, I do cheat a bit by making my wizard vmc magus. Although this later evolved into something more, it origionally had nothing to do with spellstrike, and everything to do with arcane pool+arcane accuracy.
Next I'm a foresight diviner. This is one of the only schools that gives you a real mechanical advantage in battle.
Next I'm a half elf, ancestral arms: elven curve blade. I could have chosen the elven branch spear yes, but there are some good arguments for the blade, one is that a crit range is good for spellstrike later.
I got a 25 point buy in rappan attock, I decided to put my stats as such:
str 12 dex 16 con 14 int 18 wis 14 cha 7
traits one is clever wordplay (diplo), the other is magical lineage (enervation)
The plan for feats (we just turned level 5)
1 scribe scroll, weapon finesse
2
3 arcane pool
4
5 knowledge is power, craft wonderous.
6
7 arcane accuracy
8
9 extra magus arcana: broad study wizard
10 piercing spell
11 spellstrike
12
13 empower spell
14
15 close range (arcana), quicken spell
16
17 spell perfection (enervation)
18
19 random arcana
20 immortality
There's something I should mention I'll eventually be doing gloves of storing shenanigans to metamagic rod my enervations to be thanatopic when needed). So if it wasn't clear eventually I'm spellstriking empowered enervations with a high crit chance.
Here's the thing, there's really not much room in here for even one extra feat, but I really would like to take defensive combat training, I wouldn't mind taking a single level of dip, so long as it continued my spellcasting. Any bright ideas? Any shenanigans? Any fat that can be cut in a clever way? I'd really like to take it by level 10 btw.

Rogar Valertis |

Unless your DM is very lenitent I've an hard time seeing this survive long. A wizard without defeses in frontline battle might kill a couple of enemies but unless the DM somehow makes them not target him/her, survival becomes almost immediately an issue. Besides that, planning for level 20 is all very well, but good luck getting there in one piece.

wraithstrike |
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I am going to be blunt here. This topic comes up from time to time with sorcerors and wizards, and unless the GM is very nice(goes out of his way to not kill you) and/or you are highly favored by the dice gods this is not going to work.
Your AC, attack bonus and damage(with a weapon) are going to suffer so much that you won't really be good in combat. Full BAB classes that are 5 levels or more below you will do this better than you. Even using the polymorph school of magic and changing into another creature will not help.
Short version: Do not go into melee combat expecting to do well.

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1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I know you're going with Curve Blade because of the crit range but I cannot strongly enough encourage you to go with the spear instead, a reach weapon will make a huge difference to your survivability and also opens up the far safer option of casting on your turn from safety and then taking AoO on the enemies turns as they move through your threatened area (suitably huge thanks to Enlarge). Whilst it's not a direct 'jump into melee' Wizard as you have perhaps envisioned, it's a far more survivable version that will ultimately contribute a lot more without constantly risking death.
I know you probably don't want to hear it but what you're trying to build exactly as envisioned, a melee close up Wizard, already exists, it's the Eldritch Knight.

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I like original builds! There's nothing I hate more than the usual conjurer wizard with Grease and Color Spray at first level, and pits/walls/fogs at higher levels. They are all identical!
Anyway, throw away Craft Wondrous Item and take Empower Spell at 5th. So you free a feat slot and can take Defensive Combat Training.
I recommend you to choose a bonded object as Arcane Bond, in particular your weapon. This way you can enhance it at half the price starting from 5th level (get a weapon cord if you don't wanna lose it). Spell Storing is a good magic feature for a caster's weapon. If you took Craft Wondrous Item for a specific item, then pick that as your bonded object.
If you want a familiar instead, take a look at the Mauler archetype or at small familiars to use as flanking buddies.

Hogeyhead |

I like original builds! There's nothing I hate more than the usual conjurer wizard with Grease and Color Spray at first level, and pits/walls/fogs at higher levels. They are all identical!
Anyway, throw away Craft Wondrous Item and take Empower Spell at 5th. So you free a feat slot and can take Defensive Combat Training.
I recommend you to choose a bonded object as Arcane Bond, in particular your weapon. This way you can enhance it at half the price starting from 5th level (get a weapon cord if you don't wanna lose it). Spell Storing is a good magic feature for a caster's weapon. If you took Craft Wondrous Item for a specific item, then pick that as your bonded object.
If you want a familiar instead, take a look at the Mauler archetype or at small familiars to use as flanking buddies.
Right I forgot to mention my arcane bond. I did take a familiar but not the mauler archetype, but the bodyguard archetype. First he increases my AC with aid another, meaning my AC is actually one of the best in the group (we are super poor), or at least it was until last game when we had 2 more deaths.
For you guys saying: OMG yousa gonna die! Wizards in front line no can haz! (Excuse the excessive sarcasm) look we are level 5 and so far we have had I believe eight deaths, and we have been lucky, however I have not died. The guy who makes the 'effective' melee builds (you know blenders) has died four times. You are not going to convince me that this cannot be done, but if you must try to convince me feel free, as I cannot stop you, it is a waste of time however.
As for craft wonderous, I had considered trading it. Strongly. If I were to trade it I would just take defensive training and knowledge is power at five though, as empower spell does little for me at this level, and cmd is very important. Urg, it's probably a good idea, I just hate the idea of giving up custom items, and the wealth issue comes into play as I am currently the wealthiest character with less than 2400gp worth of items. Then again with so little money I can hardly expect to make use of a crafting feat. Sigh.
Anyone know of a presteige class that I would qualify for that would give any relevant feat at level 1? Say a crafting feat or something? If not I think I'll go with this suggestion.

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Eldritch Knight grants a bonus combat feat at level one, requirement is 3rd level spells but you'd lose a caster level though. If that was acceptable and your GM allows retraining the best bet would probably be to retrain Weapon Finesse into a caster feat and pick it back up via Eldritch Knight, whenever you choose to pick up a level in the prestige class.
In regards to the sarcasm, obviously we don't know your game better than you, but if a melee build is dying repeatedly then either they are making some very bad tactical choices in combat, have the absolute worst luck in existence, the GM is gunning for them/favouring you, or most likely perhaps, they're building glass canons who can't remotely survive a return attack (which isn't an effective build, it's just focused to the detriment of itself). None of which really addresses the issues people have mentioned.
Ultimately of course, if you're having fun and for whatever reason you're not having trouble staying alive then great, good luck with it and keep on keeping on!

Hogeyhead |

Eldritch Knight grants a bonus combat feat at level one, requirement is 3rd level spells but you'd lose a caster level though. If that was acceptable and your GM allows retraining the best bet would probably be to retrain Weapon Finesse into a caster feat and pick it back up via Eldritch Knight, whenever you choose to pick up a level in the prestige class.
In regards to the sarcasm, obviously we don't know your game better than you, but if a melee build is dying repeatedly then either they are making some very bad tactical choices in combat, have the absolute worst luck in existence, the GM is gunning for them/favouring you, or most likely perhaps, they're building glass canons who can't remotely survive a return attack (which isn't an effective build, it's just focused to the detriment of itself). None of which really addresses the issues people have mentioned.
Ultimately of course, if you're having fun and for whatever reason you're not having trouble staying alive then great, good luck with it and keep on keeping on!
We are playing Rappan Attok, it's just very very deadly. We just had two deaths vs an immortal (a la tarrasque) cr 10 creature that caught us by surprise in an enclosed space while level 4, I escaped through quick thinking and a good deal of luck. It's not a normal game. I will probably die before rez becomes an option though...
-Edit: Sorry I realize I didn't really address your point, here we go: One of the guys who just died was level 4 he had 47 hp and an AC of 19ish I don't know his cmd or cmb but they would have been good if not for the strength damage as it was it was decent, he engaged a creature in melee, and was grappled to death, of course he didn't know that should have been possible as it was already grappling someone. The other person died was surprised rounded in a completely unforeseeable situation, and just couldn't recover. Before that deaths were simmilar. Like when we were level 3ish we were attacked by like five giant spiders. Stuff happens, often I run away and therefore live, I don't have movement penalties and I don't have an acp, this is actually really important we have found.
So what is it about my build that is weak exactly? as of this level assuming my negotiations go well I will usually have an AC os 21, assuming I take the advice a CMB of 23. HP is 31 which seems low, but there's more I cast false life on myself and my familiar (who baseline has 15 hp) then as I take damage my familiar takes half of it if need be (coming off the false life first obviously). Next level I'll be walking around with dr 5/peircing. What part of my defenses is insufficient? Also this is without items as I have none.
Is it offense? This is a legitimate concern I suppose, especially at this level as some of my abilities have yet to come online. Still I'm attacking at +8 (my weapon is magical) and I'm dealing 1d10 + 1d6 + 2 (avg:11). Low I'll admit, but sufficient to keep up for now. also on attacks I can roll once, choose whether or not to keep it or roll again (effectively).

Veilgn |
Go have blaster build by community. And have invisibility and vanish spell so you n your team can survive.
Dont forget having metamagic lineage traits and empower spell traits. Cracked orange ioun stone are ok too.
And dont rely on armor. Rely on damage and construct. You are amge. You use trickery to survive.
Last : wizard focused on melle : dead meat.
This is god build.

wraithstrike |

Gray Warden wrote:I like original builds! There's nothing I hate more than the usual conjurer wizard with Grease and Color Spray at first level, and pits/walls/fogs at higher levels. They are all identical!
Anyway, throw away Craft Wondrous Item and take Empower Spell at 5th. So you free a feat slot and can take Defensive Combat Training.
I recommend you to choose a bonded object as Arcane Bond, in particular your weapon. This way you can enhance it at half the price starting from 5th level (get a weapon cord if you don't wanna lose it). Spell Storing is a good magic feature for a caster's weapon. If you took Craft Wondrous Item for a specific item, then pick that as your bonded object.
If you want a familiar instead, take a look at the Mauler archetype or at small familiars to use as flanking buddies.
Right I forgot to mention my arcane bond. I did take a familiar but not the mauler archetype, but the bodyguard archetype. First he increases my AC with aid another, meaning my AC is actually one of the best in the group (we are super poor), or at least it was until last game when we had 2 more deaths.
For you guys saying: OMG yousa gonna die! Wizards in front line no can haz! (Excuse the excessive sarcasm) look we are level 5 and so far we have had I believe eight deaths, and we have been lucky, however I have not died. The guy who makes the 'effective' melee builds (you know blenders) has died four times. You are not going to convince me that this cannot be done, but if you must try to convince me feel free, as I cannot stop you, it is a waste of time however.
I did not say you will definitely die. I said that unless your GM is overly nice to you* or you get very lucky then you will die. I also said that someone several levels below you can do the fighting thing better than your wizard will be able to. <---Not trying to convince you, just making sure you understand what I said.
With that aside there is no reason to have 8 deaths by level 5 from the "blenders" and then expect for your wizard to step in and survive. <----Once again, not trying to convince you. I don't really have a horse in this race.
*This includes poor tactics.

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You could also try the Blade Adept archetype of the Arcanist. This may save you the variant multi classing, and free a lot of feat-slots!
The only cons are the ban of the familiar and the late spell progression. In change you get all your feats, magus features (including arcane accuracy), a very strong weapon and exploits, which comprehend a bonus metamagic feat, a bonus crafting feat and Dimensional Slide (you don't need high charisma, just don't select exploits cha-dependent).

Artificial 20 |
If you're still looking for one more feat, something to consider is when despite all your defences probability decides to make you eat a confirmed critical from a big-hitter, and you don't have the raw HP to cope with it.
It does require armour proficiency, which might mean it's two feats, but Fortified Armor Training could help with that. What I would do if Eastern equipment is available is get a haramiki, or 5 haramikis if you want spares in your pack, they're only 3gp and 1lb. I'm guessing you use mage armor for AC so they wouldn't help there, but there's no ACP or arcane spell failure chance, and when that critical hit arrives you break the harakimi to avoid it. If you know Mending you can repair them in your downtime, and outside of crazy fights probably never take a full crit :D.