[PFS] +1 Heavy Bashing Shield Question


Rules Questions

101 to 128 of 128 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Well if they had changed the spiked shield to reference shield spikes instead of armor spikes that would have been useful. Saying adding shield spikes to a shield turns it into a spiked shield and take out the line about doing damage as if larger. But mainly the fact it still says to reference armor spikes.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
James Risner wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Now if IN THE ERRATA FOR THE NEW BOOK THAT THEY JUST MISSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO
It makes it hard to get this addressed when some of the posts seem to question whether or not the "they stack" position is a serious question.

Which is understandable when you consider the history of said question. Most bonuses of the same type do not stack, while some do. Since 3.5 Size bonuses stacked. Because this is different than how most bonuses work it spawns questions of "wait it's different?" which leads to James complaining that a heavy spiked shield shouldn't hit as hard as a great sword, and that he personally doesn't let this one instance stack. Que people taking this as Word of God, leading to more questions leading to the FAQ that size bonuses no longer stack. That FAQ, like most of them honestly, is poorly received; and thrown into the pile of stupid, ignored FAQs. Add in how spiked shields get their separate lines on the weapon tables, which can lead players not even knowing that there is a double up in size bonuses. In short is a product of Typical WoTC Editing(TM) exasperated by Typical Paizo Editing(TM).

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

9mm wrote:
FAQ that size bonuses no longer stack. That FAQ, like most of them honestly, is poorly received

I can't agree with you that the FAQ are poorly received. I've seen a lot of rejoicing for the FAQ. It is only online that I've seen anyone unhappy with any FAQ.

Community Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Removed some posts and their responses. Don't make it personal, folks—flag it and move on, and be civil to each other.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

So, pretending for a moment that anyone is still arguing in good faith that spiked shields and shields with spikes on them are not the same thing, here's a list of things that don't work with spiked shields if they are their own unique weapons:

(unclear or partial, or do nothing)

Feats:
Shield Master
Shield Slam
Shield Focus
Shield Wall
Saving Shield
Improved Shield Bash
Missile Shield
Shield Specialization
Shield Specialization, Greater
(Channel shield wall)
Ray Shield
(Mounted Shield)
Shield Snag
(Covering Shield)
Equipment trick: Shield
(Shielded Caster)
Covering Defense
(Weapon Trick: Weapon and Shield)
Bashing Finish
(fortified Armor Training)
(Align Equipment)

Traits:
Shield-trained
Shield Bearer

Classes:
Brawler (Shield Champion) can't use his abilities, is not proficient.
Paladin (Sacred Shield) can't use Holy Shield or Divine Bond
Holy Vindicator: vindicator's Shield.
Cavalier (Knight of the Wall)

Other:
Making a shield bash.
Gaining a shield bonus to AC.


I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue spiked shields don't count as shields.

Do you have anything to support your claim? Giant lists are flashy props, but not much for evidence.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
swoosh wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue spiked shields don't count as shields.

Do you have anything to support your claim? Giant lists are flashy props, but not much for evidence.

You and NN are arguing, in this thread, that spiked shields follow ONLY the rules assigned to the spiked shield in the weapon table and its attendant weapon description; conversely, that the descriptions of "shields" and "shield spikes" in the shields & armor section have no bearing on "spiked shields".

If you're going to argue that spiked shields aren't shields with spikes on them, in order to escape the as-if, you cannot also argue that they are, in fact, shields. Even if they have "shields" in their name, by extension of the Warslinger FAQ. If they are only martial weapons from the weapon section, they are only martial weapons from the weapon section.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Menacing Shade of mauve wrote:
If you're going to argue that spiked shields aren't shields with spikes on them, in order to escape the as-if, you cannot also argue that they are, in fact, shields. Even if they have "shields" in their name, by extension of the Warslinger FAQ. If they are only martial weapons from the weapon section, they are only martial weapons from the weapon section.

That is a very deep rabbit hole.

That's simply brilliant! If you are at gencon this year I'll get you a beer or energy drink as a toast to the genius of that point.


Menacing Shade of mauve wins the gold metal for petard hoisting :)


Chess Pwn wrote:

The price is 13 gp/19 gp for light and 17 gp/30 gp for heavy. It's in the table/item description.

Now the weight is still special.

Looks like Paizo recently put out an errata to Ultimate Equipment,

Ultimate Equipment Errata wrote:

Page 18—In the table, in light melee weapons, change the price of light shield to “3 gp/9 gp”, change the price of spiked light shield to “13 gp/19 gp”. In one-handed melee weapons, change the price of spiked heavy shield to “17 gp/30 gp".

***
Page 38—In spiked light shield, change the price to “13 gp/19 gp” and in spiked heavy shield, change the price to “17 gp/30 gp”.

This fixes some of the discrepancies that were on the table e.g. +50gp and in the description. I didn't find any other changes to spiked shields.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
swoosh wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue spiked shields don't count as shields.

you're arguing that spiked shields don't count as spiked shields. Its more than fair to point out that if they don't count as spiked shields, then you don't what they count as.

If you can "know" that a spiked shield is a shield because it says shield, then we know that a spijed shield is a spiked shield because it says its a spiked shield.

Along with its other very deep flaws, your argument has a vast inconsistency in it. Pointing that out is neither mocking you or stifling honest questioning.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Risner wrote:
I can't agree with you that the FAQ are poorly received. I've seen a lot of rejoicing for the FAQ. It is only online that I've seen anyone unhappy with any FAQ.

While I do not agree there is still a debate and that the FAQ answers this issue, in spite of that I think the FAQ is piss poor.

both spikes and improved natural weapon physical change the thing in question to make it more dangerous. There is no "virtual size" change occurring. Using the language to treat the damage as one size greater is simply to give you a game mechanics means of knowing how to change the damage.

The FAQ should not be.

Until it ceases to be though, these things don't stack.

Scarab Sages

Yup. It's like saying you can't cast lead blades on Morningstar, because it does damage as a club once size larger. And really, it's just a club or mace with spikes on it. But a morning star doesn't have that in it's description, so it's fine.


Imbicatus wrote:

Yup. It's like saying you can't cast lead blades on Morningstar, because it does damage as a club once size larger. And really, it's just a club or mace with spikes on it. But a morning star doesn't have that in it's description, so it's fine.

My favorite is gauntlet vs spiked gauntlet. If you add spikes to a gauntlet, it does damage as if it where a size bigger too... ;)

Community & Digital Content Director

Removed another series of posts and locking.

101 to 128 of 128 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / [PFS] +1 Heavy Bashing Shield Question All Messageboards