If they made a Players Handbook 2, what would you want in it?


4th Edition

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Me?

I'd want about half a dozen new classes.

Definitely a half-arcane caster or two like the paladin and ranger, like the magus. A de-buffer like a witch or anti-bard. An alchemist-like class (this could possibly be an archetype). A summoner, especially since summoning spells are few and far between. Maybe a tactical fighting class (this might be a fighter or ranger archetype, too.

I would want at least a couple more archetypes for each class. They're built so modularly it's a damn shame they haven't exploited that yet. Just a splat-book of new archetypes would be nice once a year.

A few more feats, backgrounds, and spells would be nice too.

I would like to see feats that let you "break" the rules in nondisruptive ways, like a feat that let you sneak attack with spells (or at least cantrips), a feat that would allow you to ignore the Concentration requirement for a single chosen spell, a feat that let you to treat weapons as if they have the finesse quality (and thus allow you to sneak attack with them)--or even the ability to select a weapon and add qualities to it. I also think it would be neat if there was a way to make some unaugmentable spells augmented with higher level spell slots. Or a way to make some of the vanilla cantrips improve with character level; for example, granting shillelagh a cumulative +1 bonus to attack and damage at levels 5, 11, and 17, or making mage hand stronger at levels 5, 11, and 17. Stuff like that. Maybe a way to cast a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action as a bonus action a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. I would also like to see more feats that grant a +1 to a mental stat along with some additional benefits. Even a feat that grants you +1 to Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma and proficiency with a single skill of the associated ability score.

I would like to see more backgrounds, if only because I have difficulty homebrewing the "narrative empowering feature" that most backgrounds have.

When it comes to spells, what I'm really interested in are "counters" that use a reaction to cast them and are used to interrupt or disrupt an opponent's action, such as using a reaction to trip an opponent or make them drop their weapon or wand or parry an attack against an ally.

I think it would also be fun to do more exciting things with Inspiration.

I know a lot of this can just be homebrewed, but it would be nice to see what else is out there.


I want more subclasses/archetypes/whateveryouwannacallit for each class, especially the ones with only 2 choices. More races/subraces, as well as more actual classes. I want an elemental sorcerer bloodline that has you choose an element, and makes all your energy based spells (cone of cold, fireball, lightning bolt, melf's acid arrow, etc) do energy damage based on your bloodline's element. So, if you are a water element bloodline, you would cast acidball (or coldball) instead of fireball, or an air element sorcerer would cast lightningball. Among other abilities.

I would like an alchemist, the arcane version of a paladin or ranger, divine versions of the sorcerer and warlock ("spontaneous" casters with clericy or druidy spells).

More backgrounds, more races (eberron races in an actual book and not just playtest material, though that could come around if or when they do an Eberron adventure, like they did Ravenloft, but I feel we may have to go through 4 more FR adventures before the next non-FR).

I don't want an over-influx of classes or archetypes. Oh, an a druid that gets an animal companion.


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I don't want a PHB2. What I want is new archetypes, spells, feats and the like into campaign setting book. Something similar to what they did with the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide with the Battlerager, Bladesigner and Purple Dragon Knight. Setting books could be more balanced between fluff and crunch than what SCAG was.


I would like one really solid splat book of character options- something on par with the advanced players guide for pathfinder. Once they put something like that out I think I'd have about the level of options that I think are ideal.

Liberty's Edge

I wouldn't be keen on a generic PHB2 or options. I would rather keep the base game simple, meaning PHB only. Then have setting specific classes/races/options to flesh things out. I would love to see a Ravenloft setting book, hardback like the last 2e book. Then if WotC liked they could tailor 'power' of these addons. For Ravenloft you want not-so-heroic stuff, but in the FR you want earth shattering Eliminster-like options available.

But don't mess with the base game other than fix current broken rules and typos.

2 cents.


I would love to see Dragonlance support@


I would want more and better talents for rogues and slayers.


Sorcerous origins, given the PHB only had one, plus a joke entry.

The UA Stormborn and UA Favoured Soul origins were actually quite impressive, but the former got nerfed to the ground when they published it in the Sword Coast book, leaving Draconic once again as "The Obvious Choice" of the official options.

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wraithstrike wrote:
I would want more and better talents for rogues and slayers.

Uh... Do you realize this is a 5E thread?

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To the OP's question:

1) Just a couple of new classes: something alchemy-themed, and an arcane half-caster (same general setup as rangers and paladins). Maybe something else too, but that's about it.

2) Lots of new backgrounds. Even if some of them are ones you could cobble together from the PHB1's customization rules with the original backgrounds, having them written out could be inspiring. Definitely want some "truly new" ones as well.

3) New class archetypes. Some of the classes feel pretty well-equipped, but others are a bit lacking. More sorcerous origins, more warlock patrons, probably others I'm not thinking of.

4) Here's an idea: Lists of suggestions for tweaking classes (beyond their archetype packages). For example, it bugs me that every single rogue MUST learn Thieves' Cant and be proficient in thieves' tools. If you have some kind of non-thief concept that the bulk of the rogue chassis embodies perfectly, you have to choose between picking a less-representative class or contaminating your concept with all the thief stuff. The only other recourse is to get your GM to approve some customization, which I imagine would be a lot easier (not just easier to convince them, but actually less work overall) if there were some suggested substitutions laid out in a book.

5) Maybe some new feats or something? Just a few. Maybe a handful of spells too.


Yeah, this is something I really don't want them to do. I've seen the extra PHBs in 3e and 4e as sort of devaluating the game. I don't know, diluting it.

Their idea of one campaign-specific extra player book is a good idea. Sort of like "rotations" in TCGs and LCGs.

If they do a new PHB or a new MM or a new Starter Set, I'd like for it to be setting specific and stand-alone. A Spelljammer, Dark Sun, al-Qadim that was completely compatible with base 5e yet didn't need it to play...
Sort of like Ice Age and the other blocks in Magic.


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I don't think I want a PHB2. I like the self-contained-ness of 5e, but I'm the type of guy who like to work within an enclosed paradigm.

I'm afraid that more material will either create redundancy or invalidate already available options by providing better ones.


Jiggy wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I would want more and better talents for rogues and slayers.

Uh... Do you realize this is a 5E thread?

-------------------------------------

I didn't. I should have noticed when I saw "PHB 2", but I think I automatically converted it to "book with more classes".

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wraithstrike wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I would want more and better talents for rogues and slayers.

Uh... Do you realize this is a 5E thread?

-------------------------------------

I didn't. I should have noticed when I saw "PHB 2", but I think I automatically converted it to "book with more classes".

I figured it was either that, or there was some 5E Slayer class I hadn't heard about and was about to be enlightened. I find myself mildly disappointed that it was the former rather than the latter. ;)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

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The fewer rogues that know the cant, the worse it becomes :(

It is a ribbon (fluff ability) though, if you never use it you won't have lost any power.
You could sub it out for any other language, likewise thieves tools for another tool or kit prof. I'm not sure I want pages of replacement suggestions for such thingsm

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I usually do homebrew stuff, so I don't really have access to material from the Forgotten Realms or other campaign-specific publications.


Yeah, swapping Cant out for a different language and Thieves' Tools for a different tool, depending on what you're going for with your concept, is a pretty easy change to make. I'm not sure it needs to be spelled out in the rules.

I had a bard whose background was as a spy with the "humble performer" bit being his cover and excuse to travel around a lot and the DM had no problem with me swapping out some of his musical instrument proficiencies for languages. Of course, YDMMV.


Threasd Necromancyyyyyyyyyy!

I'd like to see a 5E version of the 4E Warlord. Despite not liking 4E, I thought the Warlord class was a neat idea (and in Pathfinder I played a Cavalier with some 3PP stuff to basically be a similar thing).

Some other 4E classes might make good archetypes, but the Warlord is one I think might be difficult to pull off as one.


More ranger options.


I'd like to see them offer a few balance tweaks to existing classes. They did a really good job with class balance in general but that to me makes disparities like beast master rangers and (low level) moon druids stick out all the more.

Other than that definitely more backgrounds because they really are difficult to homebrew, perhaps feats but not really anything like what is suggested in the OP, and neither would I expect anything like that since as we have seen in the most recent unearthed arcana they would go against the design philosophy behind feats.

As far as classes go I would also like to see something focussed on Alchemy, though I don't want to see anything like the PF Alchemist who is basically just a spellcaster with bottles. I want the class/archetype to make use of alchemists supplies in a way that can consistently contribute to the party, and in a way that does not feel like a contrived per day mechanic like the PF Alchemist.

It doesn't have to be a class, I could imagine it being a rogue archetype for example.

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We have seen a Ranger UA so they are trying to do better for beast masters (the UA experiment had it as a spirit animal that could be summoned once per long rest IIRC, which was fine imo. It may be impossible to balance constantly doubled action economy without making the beast very weak).


Petty Alchemy wrote:
We have seen a Ranger UA so they are trying to do better for beast masters (the UA experiment had it as a spirit animal that could be summoned once per long rest IIRC, which was fine imo. It may be impossible to balance constantly doubled action economy without making the beast very weak).

Once per day for one minute and you have to concentrate on it. Not exactly ideal either, at least not for someone who just wants an honest to gods pet that is relevant in combat.

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How would you do it?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe a pet-specific class is needed? Probably d8 HD, kind of sub-par saves (Dex & Int or Cha), simple weapons, light, maybe medium armor, and class features dedicated to running a pet.

Sovereign Court

I'd like it in PDF.


Threeshades wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
We have seen a Ranger UA so they are trying to do better for beast masters (the UA experiment had it as a spirit animal that could be summoned once per long rest IIRC, which was fine imo. It may be impossible to balance constantly doubled action economy without making the beast very weak).
Once per day for one minute and you have to concentrate on it. Not exactly ideal either, at least not for someone who just wants an honest to gods pet that is relevant in combat.

True, but being able to circumvent action economy is one of the most game breaking things in 3x. Make an effective, independent pet as part of an archetype and you have just made all other archetypes a poor second in comparison. There just isn't much of a way around that.


The thing about the Beastmasters companion is that it is neither particularly strong, nor does it circumvent Action Economy. I'd just slightly improve the existing animal companion's stats, perhaps depending on how strong the chosen animal is. In fact I have made a model laid out here


I think there's a lot of difference between the concepts of "An additional PHB with more options" (which I don't want) and "A fixed PHB that's clearer written, easier to find things in, with some classes slightly tweaked".


A warlord class


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More Sorcerous Origins. WotC seems to have a severe bias against Sorcerers for whatever reason, but right now there are only 2 options (really one when you consider how awful the Wild Magic origin is) compared to Wizards getting goodies for every school.


Belulzebub wrote:
More Sorcerous Origins. WotC seems to have a severe bias against Sorcerers for whatever reason, but right now there are only 2 options (really one when you consider how awful the Wild Magic origin is) compared to Wizards getting goodies for every school.

In the Unearthed Arcana tidbits they have 2 more sorcerous origins. Shadow from the Underdark and Stormborn from the Waterborne downloads. Free, and from WotC itself, so more likely to pass DM muster.


Storm sorcerers saw a fixed version in Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, while Shadow hasn't seen official release yet. But yeah, Wild Magic sorcerers are hot garbage. That's why I homebrewed a bunch more options for the sorcerer, including Earth, Water, and Fire Sorcerers based on the fixed Storm Sorcerer, Celestial Bloodline, Destined Bloodline, and Fey Bloodline. Now I just need to figure out options for Warlocks that aren't necessarily evil the way Fiend and Great Old One are.

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There's also a Favored Soul sorc in UA if I recall correctly.


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I'd like more, equally powerful feats (I quite like the recent weapon specialisation feats in UA, personally - I feel the tradeoff for uniqueness is worth the cost but they're not 'must haves'. I could also imagine a fighter getting good with a couple of weapons rather than just the one).

More backgrounds (easy to do yourself, but I personally find lists of possibilities to be inspiring). I'd also like some random tables for this kind of thing, though I know random character generation isn't terribly popular these days.

More archetypes would be useful too, in my view. Similar to the backgrounds, it's easy enough to tweak what's there but an option in black-and-white can trigger creativity.

I'd definitely like some more downtime activities. Or indeed any system for tying PCs to the campaign setting.

In a similar vein, I think an optional "contacts" system similar to Shadowrun could be a useful addition for that kind of a campaign.

Jiggy has persuaded me that I also want a martial/arcane semi-caster (one of those things you didn't know you wanted until someone points it out). I don't think there are many other class-concepts that I feel are actually undoable. Maybe an artificer/alchemist type class?

More ritual spells would be good too, in my opinion. We find ourselves liking the ritual rules but then always choosing the same old spells every time we have a character with ritual magic. I'd like to be put in the position where I wanted more ritual spells than are initially available (and hence have motivation for going out and finding more).

Sovereign Court

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Did someone say more rituals?


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That sounds like the kind of thing I'd like in a PH2 (or in any 3PP book of a similar nature). I'm not fussy about it coming from WotC, however I don't do PDFs and printing them out myself just isn't the same.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've found designing homebrewed backgrounds kind of difficult.

It's not the 2 skills and 2 languages/tools and short flavorful list of equipment that's hard.

It's coming up with the narrative power background feature.

If they were crunchy, like a Hunter background gaining advantage on Stealth checks in the wilderness, that would be fine. But they're generally less crunchy than that. They're generally more like this: You gather twice the normal amount of food when hunting in the wilderness and you can learn basic information about a creature from its footprints and other tracks.


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Yeah that's a good point. Even more reason to want some. :)

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