Archetype Question


Rules Questions


My current GM states that if you lose a class feature by taking an Archetype, such as the monk losing flurry of blows by taking master of many styles a Sacred Fist warpriest would also lose flurry of blows. is this true?


If you have both classes... you have the feature still.

Archetypes only modify the class they modify, they do not change abilities granted by other classes unless specified or FAQ'd to do so (such as the bloodline abilities of sorcerers sometimes applying to all spells cast even from other casting classes).


Are there any actual faqs for that? I cannot find any. He will not believe me without an official ruling.


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Maybe he should just read the chapter on archetypes but this quote from it seems to be pretty descriptive:
"Each alternate class feature presented in an archetype replaces a specific class feature from its parent class."


An archetype alters the base class to whatever the archetype is. This is why you can't multiclass archetypes of the same class, your character's version of that class is whatever the first archetype you took was (you can still take multiple archetypes at the same time if they don't conflict).

As an archetype only alters the specific class it refers to, why the @#$% would it have anything to do with any other class?

That being said, if you're waiting for an official ruling you're not going to get it. You're asking a question with an obvious, simple, known answer. That your GM chooses not to use it is their prerogative and nothing will change that.


That is exactly what I thought. Hopefully I can show him this and he will accept it.


Remember Sacred Fist warpriest FOB does not stack with master of many styles, so you would only count the level of Sacred Fist when using damage and number of attacks. As Bob Bob Bob. If your GM is sent firm play something else.


Jeff Clem wrote:
Remember Sacred Fist warpriest FOB does not stack with master of many styles, so you would only count the level of Sacred Fist when using damage and number of attacks. As Bob Bob Bob. If your GM is sent firm play something else.

The damage for his Unarmed Strike would stack with his Monk levels.

At 1st level, a sacred fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. He uses his warpriest levels as monk levels for determining the amount of damage dealt with an unarmed strike.

This ability replaces focus weapon.

You gain Flurry of Blows from your levels in Sacred Fist/Warpriest. Here is a FAQ on multiclassing with FOB...

The monk rules for flurry of blows state: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?

A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.

So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.

Lets say you are Master of Many Styles 10/Sacred Fist 10. You would have a Flurry of Blows BAB +14 as they both have a BAB of +7 at level 10 but Sacred Fist doesn't use its level as its BAB for FOB as a monks does. If you multiclassed the same but as a monk that still received FOB you would have a FOB BAB of +17 as Monks DO use their level for this ability.


The damage for unarmed strike does not stack. Since it doesn't have writing saying it does it defaults to not stacking


Chess Pwn wrote:
The damage for unarmed strike does not stack. Since it doesn't have writing saying it does it defaults to not stacking

It does say he treats his Warpriest levels as Monk levels for determining his unarmed strike damage. Therefore, all Warpriest levels ARE Monk levels for whatever total you have between them. If he has 10 levels Monk and "uses his warpriest levels as monk levels for determining the amount of damage dealt with an unarmed strike." as 10 levels of Warpriest he would have unarmed strike damage equal to a level 20 Monk.

You are looking for the word "stacks" when it isn't used but is implied by the text.
For example: A Ranger/Druid multiclass for determining the power of the animal companion. Lets say Ranger 6/Druid 6. He would have an animal companion equal to a level 9 Druid.

This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the Nature Bond class feature), except that the ranger's effective druid level is equal to his ranger level –3.

Otherwise that would be one animal at level 6 and a second one at level 3...

Another example could be the Myrmidarch archetype of Magus and deterimining its Fighter levels with its abilities if it was multiclassed into Fighter. There is a FAQ on that...


TGMaxMaxer wrote:

If you have both classes... you have the feature still.

Archetypes only modify the class they modify, they do not change abilities granted by other classes unless specified or FAQ'd to do so (such as the bloodline abilities of sorcerers sometimes applying to all spells cast even from other casting classes).

It means however that in this case, the monk levels do not stack for progression of the flurry of blows ability.


Tyrant Lizard King wrote:


It does say he treats his Warpriest levels as Monk levels for determining his unarmed strike damage. Therefore, all Warpriest levels ARE Monk levels for whatever total you have between them. f it was multiclassed into Fighter. There is a FAQ on that...

But his Monk levels, ironically enough do not count as monk levels for flurry of blows, because the class feature has been traded away.


Yeah it wouldn't stack because the one class traded it out. In other words his monk levels of 0 for an ability it doesn't get would stack with war priest.

It's not a cheap way to say "and now I have it again, lol" which is what maybe someone is trying for


Tyrant Lizard King wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
The damage for unarmed strike does not stack. Since it doesn't have writing saying it does it defaults to not stacking

It does say he treats his Warpriest levels as Monk levels for determining his unarmed strike damage. Therefore, all Warpriest levels ARE Monk levels for whatever total you have between them. If he has 10 levels Monk and "uses his warpriest levels as monk levels for determining the amount of damage dealt with an unarmed strike." as 10 levels of Warpriest he would have unarmed strike damage equal to a level 20 Monk.

You are looking for the word "stacks" when it isn't used but is implied by the text.
For example: A Ranger/Druid multiclass for determining the power of the animal companion. Lets say Ranger 6/Druid 6. He would have an animal companion equal to a level 9 Druid.

This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the Nature Bond class feature), except that the ranger's effective druid level is equal to his ranger level –3.

Otherwise that would be one animal at level 6 and a second one at level 3...

Another example could be the Myrmidarch archetype of Magus and deterimining its Fighter levels with its abilities if it was multiclassed into Fighter. There is a FAQ on that...

The DEVs are clear that things don't stack unless it says it stacks.

Ranger Druid and Animal companion explicitly say that the levels stack, if the animal is an option for both classes.

The myrmidarch fighter levels are said to explicitly stack. Levels do not stack for weapon training. Only the levels of training stack.
Example, a lv5 myrmidarch and lv5 fighter doesn't have weapon training 2. The abilities stack, not the levels for figuring out the abilities.

Mark has confirmed on his thread that these "as a monk" don't stack, saying that a brawler/fighter and brawler/monk don't stack together for anything. But that it's something he's probably houserule to stack.

Also, the vigilante brute explicitly says, "as if he were a monk ", "if he has levels in other classes that provide monk advancement for unarmed strike damage, his vigilante level stacks with those levels whenever he is in his vigilante identity."


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
But his Monk levels, ironically enough do not count as monk levels for flurry of blows, because the class feature has been traded away.

We are discussing the characters Unarmed Strike damage.

On Flurry of Blows; Yes, his archetype removes that class feature from his Monk class but he gains one from the Sacred Fist archetype of Warpriest.

As posted upthread, the Flurry of Blows gained from Sacred Fist does NOT use its class levels to determine the BAB used in the Flurry of Blows like a Monk class normally would, however, he can still use his total BAB from all class levels.

A level 10 Monk uses a BAB +10 on FOB even though he has a BAB +7
A level 10 Sacred Fist uses a BAB +7 on FOB
Using FOB from Sacred Fist as Master of Many Styles10/Sacred Fist 10 his BAB used would be +14.... +7 BAB Monk and BAB +7 Warpriest.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
TGMaxMaxer wrote:
they do not change abilities granted by other classes unless specified or FAQ'd to do so

The Magus archetype bladebound is a good example of this: you can't take a familiar, even one granted from another class.

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