Looking to make my DM cry, need help for a lvl 10 character build.


Advice


So long story short I'm trying to figure out a diabolically powerful evil aligned character, but I have tremendous difficulty figuring out class/race/feats/equipment. For story reasons we can't do arcane spell-casters, and no multi-classing for other reasons.
The simpler the better, I'd prefer not to have a really complex character.

Sovereign Court

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Insinuator antipaladin. Keen falchion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That almost makes me want to cry. :-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'm a little curious what the short story long is about. :-)

Scarab Sages

Summoner(any class that summons well, I'd say go for Arcanist, occultist archetype). Ring of Summoning Affinity(psychopomp). Summon Psychopomp, Catrinas(Gm cry bait). By level 11 have Expanded Summon Monster and Versatile Summon. Summon flying colossal turtles that stay around for 1/min per level.

*edit* Oh, never mind. I missed the part about no arcane casters...
Then gunslinger(musket master) with alchemical cartriges, rapid shot, rapid reload


Lorewalker wrote:
Summoner(any class that summons well, I'd say go for Arcanist, occultist archetype). Ring of Summoning Affinity(psychopomp). Summon Psychopomp, Catrinas(Gm cry bait). By level 11 have Expanded Summon Monster and Versatile Summon. Summon flying colossal turtles that stay around for 1/min per level.
lordnathan21 wrote:

So long story short I'm trying to figure out a diabolically powerful evil aligned character, but I have tremendous difficulty figuring out class/race/feats/equipment. For story reasons we can't do arcane spell-casters, and no multi-classing for other reasons.

The simpler the better, I'd prefer not to have a really complex character.


captain yesterday wrote:
I'm a little curious what the short story long is about. :-)

Actually not much of a long story now that I think about it. He's terrible at choosing appropriate CR monsters (we're still learning, and have no veteran among us) and it doesn't help that he let our friend that just joined run some super op fighter that outshines my character everywhere. I mean, I'm not salty or anything I just want to be on par with this guy so we can get some balanced fights in, but it's gonna take a monster to do that I think lol.

The Exchange

Zen archer with clustered shots?


Something tells me this fighter isn't as OP as you think. What's his specialty?


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Level 10 human aristocrat with the Leadership feat. Your minion takes Leadership, too. And his, and so forth. Once you've occupied all the important positions in the local government and church, you can just claim you won. Why bother going adventuring when you are in charge?


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lordnathan21 wrote:

So long story short I'm trying to figure out a diabolically powerful evil aligned character, but I have tremendous difficulty figuring out class/race/feats/equipment. For story reasons we can't do arcane spell-casters, and no multi-classing for other reasons.

The simpler the better, I'd prefer not to have a really complex character.

Given these restrictions, the single most "diabolically powerful" character you could create would be a psychic bloodline razmiran priest sorcerer. You get to be a full caster with 100% psychic casting and full access to the sorcerer/wizard spell list, plus the ridiculously good razmiran channel ability to cast divine scrolls from your own spell slots. As long as you grab Noble Scion of War for initiative and steer far clear of anything requiring an attack roll, you can happily run around in full plate and a shield, laughing at anyone who so much as mentions the words "arcane spell failure chance." Other than that, it basically plays like a powerful sorcerer, so you'll probably want to look at a sorcerer guide. Let the martials deal damage; you can focus on debuffing and battlefield control, while devoting some lower-level spell slots to defensive self-buffs and using divine scrolls for more situational purposes, as well as to circumvent expensive material component costs and fill in any gaps in your party's spell lists.

I know you expressed a preference for a simple build, and this truly plays much like any other spontaneous spellcaster, as well as pretty much building itself. Any race with a Charisma bonus is fine, but human and gnome are the best, depending on how tight your feat progression ends up being and how much you like gnomes. Obviously Charisma will be as high as possible, with Constitution as a close second, a moderate Dexterity and Intelligence, and dumped Strength and Wisdom. You'll need to max out Use Magic Device, and with a little investment in social skills you can make a fairly good face as well, through Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive. Feats are nothing out of the ordinary, with your favorite metamagic feats, Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus in your favorite debuffing/control school, and maybe a couple of item creation feats for good measure. Magical Lineage/Wayang Spellhunter/Persistent Spell is quite popular, and for good reason - it could turn your best multi-target debilitating effect into an absolute nightmare. The arcane bloodline powers are also quite nice, so the Eldritch Heritage line couldn't go amiss - although an ampoule of false blood would make an acceptable but pricy alternative. Speaking of magic items, you can equip yourself much like any other sorcerer: the standard defensive ring/cloak/amulet, the non-standard armor and shield, a Cha headband, a Con belt, a circlet of persuasion, and a smattering of runestones of power, pages of spell knowledge, and lesser metamagic rods. And most importantly of all, your collection of divine scrolls for Razmiran Channeling. Oh, and finally, any boost to your initiative is pure gold, whether through spending a spare feat or trait, purchasing a 500 gp ioun, or choosing the right familiar should you manage to get your hands on an arcane bond.

Anyway, just a thought.

Sovereign Court

^Pretty sure that wearing full plate w/o proficiency murders your initiative, since it's a Dex- check per definition.

Scarab Sages

Avenger wrote:
^Pretty sure that wearing full plate w/o proficiency murders your initiative, since it's a Dex- check per definition.

Nobel Scion feat

"Scion of War: You use your Charisma modifier to adjust Initiative checks instead of your Dexterity modifier."
This makes it no longer a DEX check. So armor no longer interferes even if you are not proficient.

The best part is the Circlet of Persuasion listed would help the initiative too.

Sovereign Court

Nice, you learn something new everyday. I didn't know about this one.


Initiative isn't a skill at all, so it isn't affected by Armor Check Penalty applying to DEX-based skill checks.

Sovereign Court

Nonproficiency applies to Dex-based ability checks too.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Cleric or Warpriest? Maybe a reach cleric summoning specialist? Or a druid wildshaper?


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If you want a powerful character that's absurdly tough to harm, a Warpriest or Sacred Fist with the Glory blessing gets a Sanctuary effect that only ends vs. specific targets they attack. Pair that with Guided Hand and you've got a character that's got a major 1/2levels+WIS Will save block against being attacked by anything other than a target he's already attacked, which can be played off of readied attack.

You could go Sacred Fist of Gorum with a greatsword:

Dual Talent Human: 14/16STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 12INT, 16/18WIS+, 7CHA
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack

1. Weapon Proficiency: Greatsword
3. Weapon Focus: Greatsword
5. Crusader's Flurry: Greatsword
6. +FCB: Channel Smite
7. Guided Hand: Greatsword
9. Power Attack

At level 10, you can drop Divine Power on yourself with a swift action for +4 to attack and damage, and then make up to 6 two-handed greatsword Power Attacks with a single flurry with a fairly high strength (+4 belt for 20STR). So every flurry attack strikes for ~25.

With a +4WIS headband, your Monk bonus to AC and CMD would be a total of +9, and you can add spells like Ironskin and Magic Vestment to that. Will saves are huge, and Fort saves are doubled-up with Sacred Fist. And with Glory blessing, any creature you haven't attacked yet has to beat a 22 Will save to target you with anything even before they have to overcome your normal defenses.


Circlet of Persuasion with Scion of war will depend on GM discretion as the circlet doesn't increase your charisma modifier.


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Initiative wrote:
An initiative check is a Dexterity check.
Noble Scion of War wrote:
You use your Charisma modifier to adjust Initiative checks instead of your Dexterity modifier.
Linked FAQ wrote:
at the time of rolling a check, if you substitute the ability score, the check is now based on the new ability score
Circlet of Persuasion wrote:
This delicately engraved silver headband grants its wearer a +3 competence bonus on Charisma-based checks.


So, no arcane casters, no multiclass, and you say you are all a bit new. I am going to guess that most opponents are the big stick martials and critters with lots of pokey parts. Assuming that this is the case I have two suggestions.

Nagaji knight of the sepulchre antipaladin. Feats power attack, extra lay on hands, ability focus - touch of corruption. For gear, heavy armor, shield, a weapon with the conductive property. Great saves and ac, lots of immunities and specific resistances. Tanky as hell.

Cat folk two weapon fighting ninja. For talents grab vanishing trick, invisible blade, offensive defense. Two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, weapon focus wakizashi, weapon finesse, iron will and great fortitude to bolster your saves. You will always fight under improved invisibility and sneak attack all over the place. Max out your acrobatics so you can gget into flank on those enemies that can see invisibility.

Both of these are fairly simple to put together and play. They are strong, but neither is exploitive or broken.


Good call Avaron I hadn't seen that FAQ. That makes the circlet considerably more useful.

That said, this thread should probably be renamed Advice/looking to make my DM NOT PLAY. Rather than cry. Pulling these kind of tricks is the surest way to end a campaign - particularly for newer GMs. Or people off playing/DMing higher level play for life.

Scarab Sages

The Sword wrote:

Good call Avaron I hadn't seen that FAQ. That makes the circlet considerably more useful.

That said, this thread should probably be renamed Advice/looking to make my DM NOT PLAY. Rather than cry. Pulling these kind of tricks is the surest way to end a campaign - particularly for newer GMs. Or people off playing/DMing higher level play for life.

It's not a trick. It is a legitimate part of the game without any bad readings. This is Pathfinder. If a GM can't handle Pathfinder the way it is they probably should quit because it gets MUCH worse when you bring in things with very fuzzy readings.


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Lorewalker, chill out man. There is nothing fuzzy about it.I said I missed the FAQ... I acknowledged that it was valid. Without that FAQ it was questionable - no need to get snippy.

Whether a GM can handle Pathfinder depends entirely on the their ability AND what the players throw at them. It is clear what you expect from a DM, luckily the actual requirement doesn't require a masters degree in dungeon mastery and an endless amount of free time to trawl the Paizo message boards. LordNathan already said they were still learning the game. Maybe you should be a bit more responsible with your advice.

Scarab Sages

The Sword wrote:

Lorewalker, chill out man. There is nothing fuzzy about it.I said I missed the FAQ... I acknowledged that it was valid. Without that FAQ it was questionable - no need to get snippy.

Whether a GM can had Pathfinder depends entirely on the their ability AND what the players throw at them. It is clear what you expect from a DM, luckily the actual requirement doesn't require a masters degree in dungeon mastery and an endless amount of free time to trawl the Paizo message boards. LordNathan already said they were still learning the game. Maybe you should be a bit more responsible with your advice.

heh Funny. I thought we were just throwing ridiculousness and doom and gloom everywhere. I believe you were the one who brought up the topic of quitting forever? Or ending whole campaigns?

Or are we still doing that? This last post of yours does seem to be continuing the tradition.


Seigebreaker Fighter, use two shields. Half-Orc Ulfen Follower of Gorum. Take Shield Bearer and Shield Trained, use shield slam, get greater Overrun/Bullrush. Take and convince the fighter to take Paired Opportunist and Combat Reflexes.

During combat, both of you charge in, you shield slam, bullrush, he gets an attack of opportunity, overrun, paired opportunist, you get an attack of opportunity, shield slam, bullrush, he gets an attack of opportunity, overrun, paired opportunist, you get an attack of opportunity, shield slam...

When you have a high enough BAB, take Shield Master. The damage output between both of you will be insane


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Lorewalker wrote:
The Sword wrote:

Lorewalker, chill out man. There is nothing fuzzy about it.I said I missed the FAQ... I acknowledged that it was valid. Without that FAQ it was questionable - no need to get snippy.

Whether a GM can had Pathfinder depends entirely on the their ability AND what the players throw at them. It is clear what you expect from a DM, luckily the actual requirement doesn't require a masters degree in dungeon mastery and an endless amount of free time to trawl the Paizo message boards. LordNathan already said they were still learning the game. Maybe you should be a bit more responsible with your advice.

heh Funny. I thought we were just throwing ridiculousness and doom and gloom everywhere. I believe you were the one who brought up the topic of quitting forever? Or ending whole campaigns?

Or are we still doing that? This last post of yours does seem to be continuing the tradition.

You're saying a DM 'should' quit if they can't 'handle' the game. I'm saying that will happen anyway if players create characters that break the math and make the DM jump through 12 hoops to use an encounter. By all means, continue giving lousy advice and when the existing DM says he doesn't want to DM (or DM high level) anymore everyone will be poorer. But by all means keep going.

As the Op is clearly seeking this kind of math breaking effect I will now out of this conversation shaking my head having offered my words of caution.

@LordNathan : with great power comes great responsibility. Sometimes the most powerful are those who chose not to exercise it.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
lordnathan21 wrote:

So long story short I'm trying to figure out a diabolically powerful evil aligned character, but I have tremendous difficulty figuring out class/race/feats/equipment. For story reasons we can't do arcane spell-casters, and no multi-classing for other reasons.

The simpler the better, I'd prefer not to have a really complex character.

People who aim to "make their GM cry" usually end crying themselves instead...


Rogar Valertis wrote:
People who aim to "make their GM cry" usually end crying themselves instead...

Best case I retire the character after a couple sessions and be nice, worst case I get hit by a bolt of lightning. I'm under no illusions this is gonna last lol, I mean I want to have fun I just want to point out to everyone that it helps to have some balance in power.


Hunter (with a single level of wildchild brawler dip if you can work around your multiclass restriction). 2 solid melee guys exploiting teamwork feats for fun and profit.
pack-flanking, outflank and a menacing amulet of might fists. Ride a big cat for +6 to every hit for pouncing fun.

But really, if you already have a solid fighter in the party, why compete. Go for something different - make the fighter better with a buff cleric or bard? Evil doesn't mean uncooperative and if you are all new I would strongly discourage PvP. Pathfinder is designed to be a group of people working together with diverse skills to overcome challenges.

Liberty's Edge

Ashram wrote:
Something tells me this fighter isn't as OP as you think. What's his specialty?

I didn't see an answer to this...I too am curious what this fighter is doing to make him seem so OP? Unless the GM is specifically selecting monsters that are weak towards melee. I mean, unless the player has solid system mastery, a CR 7 Succubus beats the fighter. (I've yet to meet a rookie player who chooses fighter that fully understands the power of the Will save; this fighter's probably rocking what, a +4 Will?)

That being said, rather than trying to figure out a character that will allow you to "beat" the GM and the fighter, why don't you all sit down and discuss the situation before or after a session? Does anyone else in the group feel like this fighter is OP and killing people's fun? If you're the only person who thinks the fighter is over the top and causing problems, why not build a character to make the fighter better? Play a cleric and buff the crap out of the fighter, then, when your GM finally sends something the fighter can't handle, maybe you'll have the perfect spells(s) ready to go.

All that being said, the suggestion of Gunslinger (Musketmaster) with alchemical charges, rapid shot, and rapid reload is ridiculous. I've played with one of these, and while it may not be the most broken character ever, shooting a target 3 (or is it 4 @ 10th level?) times per round from well outside charge range and using touch AC gets pretty crazy.


lordnathan21 wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
I'm a little curious what the short story long is about. :-)
Actually not much of a long story now that I think about it. He's terrible at choosing appropriate CR monsters (we're still learning, and have no veteran among us) and it doesn't help that he let our friend that just joined run some super op fighter that outshines my character everywhere. I mean, I'm not salty or anything I just want to be on par with this guy so we can get some balanced fights in, but it's gonna take a monster to do that I think lol.

It sounds like you should have a talk with your GM about the CR imbalance. If you try to make more an more powerful characters then you risk an arms race, or risk the GM quitting.

As far as powerful characters, with an OP fighter you probably have damage down, so I would leave that to him. The trick to powerful characters is, in my experience, to be subtle. Everyone wants to kill the damage dealer, so they need to pump up defenses. A buff character, however, is often seen as a lower priority. Normally bard is the best, but without arcane casting I propose an evangelist cleric. Bardic performance lets you considerably up the fighters offense, as well as key spells like prayer and blessing of fervor. If you still want to do the damage sometimes, prep divine favor and righteous might, take combat reflexes and maybe channel smite, and use a longspear from 20 ft away, behind the fighter absorbing the real damage.


I really, really like Multiclassing, but I might have a few ideas.

A Tengu Ninja with Dirty Trick feats and Claws. 3 attacks/round, all of them get Sneak Attack Damage, quite reliably when you use Dirty Tricks to make your opponent Blind: no Dex mod. By level 10, you can play the Master Trick Geater Invisibility, locking in your SAD that way. Maybe work in Sap Adept and Sap Master.

Tengu Warpriest with Weapon Focus Claws and Bite. Sacred Weapon ups the DPR on the Natural Attacks allows for all kinds of buffs. The Destruction Blessing is very powerful.

Oracle.


A Divine Tactician Warpriest who uses 2 Kukris. Kukris have a threat Range of 18-20. They only do 1d4, but in the hands of a Warpriest, they do Sacred Weapon Damage instead. Take Seize the Moment or Outflank, and use your Tacitician ability to give that Feat to your Allies, then whenever someone gets a Crit, which will be pretty often after you take Improved Crit and Crit Focus, you will will also give out Attacks of Opportunity. Maybe work in something else nasty like Bleeding Critical, or Tripping Strike.


"God... There's this mortal below who says he wants to punch you in the face."

Dark Archive

Half orc Shaman.

Take Wood as your main spirit, and lore as your wandering.

you can grab XCha mod Spells every day off the Wizard spell list and can cast them Divinely, if you use a wandering hex on it.

You can grab the best spells off the cleric list and add them to your spell list.

I have a level 9 build using Mount, and alter summon monster cast under the stars using a Heavens hex to summon a Large earth elemental(Rod of giant summonings make it Huge) and grab buff spells of both lists to buff it to high heavens. it does ~ 2d8+27 dmg per hit, and has ~22-25 Attack bonus.

Of course, you can also do blood money, masterwork transformation, and sell the item for free $.

Only difference is, im a unsworn shaman, so i get more hexes but lose out on spirit abilitys.
Abe. the Elemental Shaman

The Exchange

Standard wealth by level for level 10 is 62,000gp. A dire tiger costs 1,055gp. Buy fifty dire tigers for 52,750gp (you want a little spare for yourself). Be a Druid.

Grand Lodge

BadBird wrote:

If you want a powerful character that's absurdly tough to harm, a Warpriest or Sacred Fist with the Glory blessing gets a Sanctuary effect that only ends vs. specific targets they attack. Pair that with Guided Hand and you've got a character that's got a major 1/2levels+WIS Will save block against being attacked by anything other than a target he's already attacked, which can be played off of readied attack.

You could go Sacred Fist of Gorum with a greatsword:

Dual Talent Human: 14/16STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 12INT, 16/18WIS+, 7CHA
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack

1. Weapon Proficiency: Greatsword
3. Weapon Focus: Greatsword
5. Crusader's Flurry: Greatsword
6. +FCB: Channel Smite
7. Guided Hand: Greatsword
9. Power Attack

At level 10, you can drop Divine Power on yourself with a swift action for +4 to attack and damage, and then make up to 6 two-handed greatsword Power Attacks with a single flurry with a fairly high strength (+4 belt for 20STR). So every flurry attack strikes for ~25.

With a +4WIS headband, your Monk bonus to AC and CMD would be a total of +9, and you can add spells like Ironskin and Magic Vestment to that. Will saves are huge, and Fort saves are doubled-up with Sacred Fist. And with Glory blessing, any creature you haven't attacked yet has to beat a 22 Will save to target you with anything even before they have to overcome your normal defenses.

What exactly do you intend for Magical Knack to do on a single-classed character?


Negative energy alternate rulership channeling cleric of Ra with the inevitable domain. So tasty.

The Exchange

Why not sun domain though? Undead don't get to add channel resistance.


I like the extra commands that scale with level from inevitable.

The Exchange

Could work, but those commands still require you to know the other's language. Why bother when you have a 30 foot radius burst "command" that works on anything of do nothing?

Also as s hangover cleric, chances are your cha > wis.


While nothing earth shattering a Level 10 ranger can be nasty. Go Archery and ride the horse...big thing will be instant enemy +6 hit and damage against a enemy and a couple pearl of powers for 9000.


lordnathan21 wrote:
Rogar Valertis wrote:
People who aim to "make their GM cry" usually end crying themselves instead...
Best case I retire the character after a couple sessions and be nice, worst case I get hit by a bolt of lightning. I'm under no illusions this is gonna last lol, I mean I want to have fun I just want to point out to everyone that it helps to have some balance in power.

You mean that worst case the GM throws the book at you and decides he or she no longer cares to GM. Then you're out of a game to play. Alternatively, the GM points out to you that it's much easier to find players than GMs, kicks you out the door, and fills up your spot with more mature people.


Where does all this sanctimonious noise come from exactly? The moment people can make an assumption that someone deserves a condescending scolding they can't help but chew one out...


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BadBird wrote:
Where does all this sanctimonious noise come from exactly?

That would be the Internet.


BadBird wrote:
Where does all this sanctimonious noise come from exactly?

Paladins sure are a noisy lot, aren't they.

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