Can I mantain a grapple fighting defensively?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

When you grapple a foe, the first check is to iniciate the grapple; if you are succesfull, later you can make checks to maintain the grapple and perform different actions if succesfull.

Grapple checks, since they are combat maneuvers checks are attacks and so I think they can be done fighting defensively, the fisrt and the consequent ones, but discussing with some people I found they didn't agree.

So the questions are:

1. Can grapple checks be done fighting defensively?

2. If they can, is it applicable for all grapple checks (to iniciate and mantain) or only to the first ones?

References, from the rules in the prd:
- About combat maneuvers:
"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll."
- About Grapple:
"As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options.", "If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices).", " If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold."
-About fighting defensively:
"Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn."


Well, fighting defensively has terrible wording... Using grapple as a standard action is an attack, so it satisfies the RAW.

Maintaining a grapple uses CMB (with bonuses) so it is also an attack made with a standard action. (note that greater grapple can complicate this).

I think RAI is that you could only start fighting defensively during a standard or full action (eg, no starting to fight defensively off of an aoo)


Generally, you can fight defensively any time you make an attack roll, and combat maneuvers need an attack roll.

Each round when you attack, you have to decide whether to fight defensively. If you take the penalty on the attack, you get the bonus on your AC and CMD.

Liberty's Edge

You can visualize it as trying to maneuver your grappled foe between you and your attackers.


Thank you a lot for your answers! They clarified the point perfectly.

About the greater grapple matter.. I agree it could be tricky how to apply fighting defensively if you want to use the move action to mamtain the grapple (I didn't realised until you mentioned it). It is annoying because the title days "fighting defensively as a estándar action" but the description just says you can apply the penalty to attacks and bonus to AC (and CMD) whenever you make an attack.. I guess by RAW it may be understood that you cannot use fighting defensively when mantaining the grapple with the move action, but do you think RAI would allow it?

From the prd:

Greater Grapple (Combat)
Maintaining a grapple is second nature to you.

Prerequisites: Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +6, Dex 13.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.
Normal: Maintaining a grapple is a standard action.

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