I haven't seen any stat blocks for gods or goddesses in the PFRPG Core or APG. Also I don't think I've seen a compiled list of portfolio's in either one.
So, I'm sort of wondering how the subdomains fit into the gods & goddesses. In other words, does a god have only the primary domains, or is it possible to have subdomains.
I think most gods are assumed to have 5 domains (using the chart in the Cleric section), and 3-4 domains. So, if the subdomains are basically accessible to clerics of a god that has the primary domain, that gives each god 15 domains (5 core, and 10 sub).
The reason I ask, is, I am going to revamp the gods in my homebrew to get away from the 3.5 D&D gods. So, as I am recreating them, I am going to Pathfinderize them. I think it would be reasonable to give each god a pool of 15 domains total, a mix of core (which would count as 3) and sub (which each count as 1).
This seem reasonable? I'm also trying to decide what all I need for the gods/goddesses in a statblock for the players. I'm sure it will end up similar to the 3.5's, but I don't want to lock myself into that. I do want to have levels of god/goddess, but, I don't think that should be anything more than a measure of how worshiped they are. I like the idea that a god's strength is directly tied to how many worshipers they have. So a Demigod is someone who has only cults following them. A Minor god/goddess is either worshiped widely in one country, or is worshiped widely in the world but only by a handful everywhere. A Major god/goddess is worshiped by a large percentage of the population. Obviously, someone can have more than one god/goddess, but they split their 'boost' between them. Pantheons form as weaker sets of gods/goddesses band together to share the power they get, sort of a synergy where the end result is greater than the sum of the parts. Evil gods that shouldn't have a lot of power because they don't have a lot of worshipers gain their power by siphoning off random evil acts, feeding on the souls of sacrifices, or their own failed minions. Sort of cheating and taking the easy way to power. All gods gain power when mortals do great deeds in their name (provided those deeds match the god's credos).
Anyway, here's what I have so far for statblocks :
Name:
Alignment:
Power:
Symbol:
Favored Weapon:
Domains:
Portfolios:
Worshipers:
Bane:
Credo:
Description:
Organization:
Pantheon:
Most are self explanatory. Bane is things the god will have nothing to do with, no matter what. For example, a goddess of death might have a Bane vs resurection, and thus will never do it. Or, she might consider it an affront to create undead, then she'd have an Undead bane. Most good gods would have Evil as a bane, and lawful would have Chaos, for example.
Description is basically what they look like when they manifest an avatar.
Organization refers to what sort of organization they have with regards to the physical world. So, do they have churches, or are their followers mostly nature druids and sylvan creatures and thus unstructured? Most lawfuls are going to have big church structures and heirarchies, but chaotics will have at most small churches with no central authority. Neutrals would be somewhere in the middle.
The way it's laid out in the APG, the deity gets five core domains as normal, then gets 6 subdomains as well.
For instance, Asmodeus gets Evil, Fire, Law, Magic, Trickery plus Arcane, Ash, Deception, Devil, Divine, Smoke. Leaving subdomains like Daemons, Demon, Archon, Thievery, etc on the table.
The way it's laid out in the APG, the deity gets five core domains as normal, then gets 6 subdomains as well.
For instance, Asmodeus gets Evil, Fire, Law, Magic, Trickery plus Arcane, Ash, Deception, Devil, Divine, Smoke. Leaving subdomains like Daemons, Demon, Archon, Thievery, etc on the table.
Ah? I missed that... Let me go reread that....
Ok, I screwed that up. :)
Ok, so, each deity get's 5 + 6.
Hmm, I think the following then :
Major Deity : 5 Domains + 6 Subdomains
Minor Deity : 3 Domains + 3 subdomains, or 2 Domains and 5 Subdomains
Demigod : 1 Domain + 2 Subdomains or 4 subdomains
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The official domain breakdown for Golarion is:
True Deity (what was qualified as a greater, intermediate, or lesser god in previous editions): These get 5 domains; among those domains MUST be their alignment domains. They also get 6 subdomains each.
Demigod (what was qualified as a demigod, demon lord, archdevil, etc. in previous editions): These get 4 domains; among those MUST be their alignment domains. They get 5 subdomains each.
Major Deity : 5 Domains + 6 Subdomains
Minor Deity : 3 Domains + 3 subdomains, or 2 Domains and 5 Subdomains
Demigod : 1 Domain + 2 Subdomains or 4 subdomains
Subdomains really aren't weaker than regular domains, they're just more focused. Your distribution seems to assume that subdomains are lesser in some way.
It would be odd to have a Demigod with 0 Domains / 4 Subs. If it feels right, go with it, but that seems at cross purposes to the original design of subdomains.
The official domain breakdown for Golarion is:
True Deity (what was qualified as a greater, intermediate, or lesser god in previous editions): These get 5 domains; among those domains MUST be their alignment domains. They also get 6 subdomains each.
Demigod (what was qualified as a demigod, demon lord, archdevil, etc. in previous editions): These get 4 domains; among those MUST be their alignment domains. They get 5 subdomains each.
Ah, I see.
Hmm, that helps. Ok, so, I will try to follow that then when making my gods/goddesses for my game. Mainly just so that they fit seemlessly with follow on expansions of the rules.
I'm hoping Paizo officially puts out a 'Divinity Unmasked' book, explaining gods/goddesses, offering several ways to set up your 'heavens' and so on, as well as good rules to help you build them.
Major Deity : 5 Domains + 6 Subdomains
Minor Deity : 3 Domains + 3 subdomains, or 2 Domains and 5 Subdomains
Demigod : 1 Domain + 2 Subdomains or 4 subdomainsSubdomains really aren't weaker than regular domains, they're just more focused. Your distribution seems to assume that subdomains are lesser in some way.
It would be odd to have a Demigod with 0 Domains / 4 Subs. If it feels right, go with it, but that seems at cross purposes to the original design of subdomains.
yeah, I see the point. You're right, I've been approaching it as subdomain = subsection of domain.
The more I read through them though, the more I see your point. I will go with Jason's description above of the heirarchy. Hmm, I had been planning on doing 1 major, 1 minor, and 1 demigod. But now, I think I'll go with 2 true deities and 1 demigod per alignment. The demigods are probably going to be broken up into 2 pantheons (either 4 each with one demi outside it, or else 5 each with one neutral demi as the 'go between' who plays both sides).
The official domain breakdown for Golarion is:
True Deity (what was qualified as a greater, intermediate, or lesser god in previous editions): These get 5 domains; among those domains MUST be their alignment domains. They also get 6 subdomains each.
Demigod (what was qualified as a demigod, demon lord, archdevil, etc. in previous editions): These get 4 domains; among those MUST be their alignment domains. They get 5 subdomains each.
Ok,
Here's another question. Must all the subdomains be drawn from their main domains? It appears so, looking at the list, but there's a lot of cross-referencing to do. I spot checked it and it appeared so.
on a related topic, do they ever say what a deities holy symbol looks like? Deities seem to have been glossed over in pathfinder.
Ok,
Here's another question. Must all the subdomains be drawn from their main domains? It appears so, looking at the list, but there's a lot of cross-referencing to do. I spot checked it and it appeared so.
Yes.
I put together a matrix in a spreadsheet of all the APG options. Didn't look like there was much interest in it, but I'll put up a link to it on the APG's street date.
on a related topic, do they ever say what a deities holy symbol looks like? Deities seem to have been glossed over in pathfinder.
It's not that they were glossed over, so much as intentionally left out. The deities are detailed in the Pathfinder setting book, not in the core RPG book.
Therefore, if you want the symbols and dogma you'll need to buy the Golarian setting (pathfinder setting book).
Yes.Ok,
Here's another question. Must all the subdomains be drawn from their main domains? It appears so, looking at the list, but there's a lot of cross-referencing to do. I spot checked it and it appeared so.
That's really quite irritating, because it means that a Cleric of the Goddess of Fate can't use the Fate subdomain.
Of course, if it was placed under the logical normal domain of Knowledge, rather than Luck (?!), that wouldn't be true...
Ok,
Here's another question. Must all the subdomains be drawn from their main domains? It appears so, looking at the list, but there's a lot of cross-referencing to do. I spot checked it and it appeared so.Yes.
I put together a matrix in a spreadsheet of all the APG options. Didn't look like there was much interest in it, but I'll put up a link to it on the APG's street date.
Thanks, thought so. I'll post my gods/goddesses as I get them done on this thread. Working on the draconic and feline deities right now.
I don't have any of those...is there any free source that gives this Info?
Therefore, if you want the symbols and dogma you'll need to buy the Golarian setting (pathfinder setting book).
Or the much cheaper and just as detailed Gods & Magic book.
I don't have any of those...is there any free source that gives this Info?
Pathfinder Wiki, probably.
Thanks.
Therefore, if you want the symbols and dogma you'll need to buy the Golarian setting (pathfinder setting book).Or the much cheaper and just as detailed Gods & Magic book.
LOL, sorry, didn't even know about that book. As I've stated before, I don't do much in the way of buying campaign specific source material myself.
EDIT: Realized this was the wrong thread to post these in. Sorry. I'll start a different one for feedback.
|
Creative Director
|
I'm hoping Paizo officially puts out a 'Divinity Unmasked' book, explaining gods/goddesses, offering several ways to set up your 'heavens' and so on, as well as good rules to help you build them.
A deity book would indeed be cool. We aren't going to even TRY to start working on a book like this before we nail down our epic rules, though. And no, that's not an implication that we'll be giving our gods stats; I'd rather avoid that, to be honest, but I DO want to know exactly what our epic rules look like before I skip ahead to the gods themselves.
AKA: A deity book is quite a ways in the future.
|
Creative Director
|
on a related topic, do they ever say what a deities holy symbol looks like? Deities seem to have been glossed over in pathfinder.
The core rules are world-neutral. We put as LITTLE world material in that book as possible, and that basically amounts to only the deity names and their domains and favored weapons. What a deity's symbol looks like is 100% flavor; has no rules implications at all, so we didn't talk about that in the core rulebook.
For images of what the symbols look like or more information on the deities, you'll need to either check out the Pathfinder Campaign setting hardcover, Gods & Magic, or check out the community use package; I believe all the symbols are there...
My assumption has always been that 'statted' gods were just avatars. That is, the stats were not the god themselves, just the avatar of the god. With a god usually having only one avatar at a time that dealt with mortals directly.
Kill an avatar, and yeah, you seriously inconvenience a god. You also make a very very very bad enemy. :)
A deity book would indeed be cool. We aren't going to even TRY to start working on a book like this before we nail down our epic rules, though. And no, that's not an implication that we'll be giving our gods stats; I'd rather avoid that, to be honest, but I DO want to know exactly what our epic rules look like before I skip ahead to the gods themselves.
AKA: A deity book is quite a ways in the future.
That's ok, I'd rather have the epic rules and Monster PC book first myself (hint hint). ;)
|
Regarding gods and stats:
A god is not a high-CR monster. A god is a deity. It's combat stats consist of the following:
Attacks: [as many as the god desires] +infinity
Damage: Death
Save: None
Basically, the god looks at you (or perhaps doesn't even deign to do that) and you cease to exist. If they're feeling spiteful, you cease to ever have existed.
For the record, mdt was not asking for combat statblocks.
For the record, mdt was not asking for combat statblocks.
Thanks. :)
Regarding gods and stats:
A god is not a high-CR monster. A god is a deity. It's combat stats consist of the following:
Attacks: [as many as the god desires] +infinity
Damage: Death
Save: NoneBasically, the god looks at you (or perhaps doesn't even deign to do that) and you cease to exist. If they're feeling spiteful, you cease to ever have existed.
*Rogue backstabs a deity!*
*Deity looks at rogue* "Higher to the left, it itches"
*Rogue* "Mommy!" *Rogue hides*
*Deity snickers and sends the rogue to the 5th level of the Nine Hells*
|
Guys, this thread is about non-combat statblocks that would list domains, portfolio, notable clerics etc.
This is NOT about combat. If you continue discussing combat statblocks we will end up with an epic rules flamewar in no time.
Thank you!
This trapped bag is the voice of reason! Somebody get him a coke!
|
|
I appologize for assuming this was about combat stats. I guess I've seen too many wanna-be godslayers, both here and in other forums.
Also, to answer poilbrun, I don't consider the gods to be infalible or all powerful. Hell, Aroden proved that true gods can die of the flu (although I expect that particular strain of influenza somehow managed to touch the Starstone before infecting him). But I DO consider them to be so far beyond the power level of even epic-level characters that those characters don't stand a chance of actually defeating them in combat (or even affecting them beyond the level of a mosquito bite).
That being said, I have no problem with the demi-god level deities being subject to defeat at the hands of ridiculously powerful mortals. And by that I mean well beyond the limits that PCs should be allowed to progress. And example could be the Whispering Tyrant's defeat of Arazni. However, more typically than actual death, this would just result in a setback in the god's plans and the deity having to reform/regenerate/etc, as per the ending of Savage Tide.
|
|
Also, to answer poilbrun, I don't consider the gods to be infalible or all powerful. Hell, Aroden proved that true gods can die of the flu (although I expect that particular strain of influenza somehow managed to touch the Starstone before infecting him).
What DID happen to aroden? Has that been clarified at all in anything? It really confounds me.
|
|
What DID happen to aroden? Has that been clarified at all in anything? It really confounds me.
I believe that I've seen the developers state that that is a question that will never be answered. In other words, ait can either remain an eternal mystery, or a GM is free to invent his own explaination without fear of an "official" version latter invalidating his own theory.
As I said, I'm rooting for demi-god level influenza. I think maybe Cayden sneezed on the Starstone right before he gained the divine spark. Aroden went into the Temple to reset it for the next challenger, and contracted the sniffles. His condition worsened over the next few decades until 100 year ago, when he finally shuffled off his immortal coil.
What DID happen to aroden? Has that been clarified at all in anything? It really confounds me.He's on hold
"Thank you for waiting. Your call is important to us and will be answered shortly..."
Sounds like he's trying to get hold of his HMO.
"Blast that god of healing! Ever since his clerics unionized, you can't get through!"
Guys, this thread is about non-combat statblocks that would list domains, portfolio, notable clerics etc.
This is NOT about combat. If you continue discussing combat statblocks we will end up with an epic rules flamewar in no time.
LOL
This is the second time I've had to thank someone for pointing this out. Thanks. :)
|
I haven't seen any stat blocks for gods or goddesses in the PFRPG Core or APG.In the Great Wise Words Of Me, it is written "Thou shalt only need stat blocks for things that thou deemest killable."
Gods essentially have just one ability and only one when it comes to dealing with mortals... GM's fiat. Either they are forces above and beyond the ken of mortals or they're not. I would presume that Paizo has placed the dieties of Golarian in the first category which would make putting stats for them a literal waste of paper.
...
Like it was written about 10 times in this thread (and now second time by me) this thread is NOT ABOUT COMBAT STATBLOCKS.
Folks, read the thread before you reply. And get me a coke. With a straw, since being a bag means I can't really hold a can or glass. Thank you.
Then don't use the term STATBLOCK, because that's what it is... a set of crunchy numbers for combat. Fluffy stuff for roleplay is not part of a statblock it's other material.
So the statblock on page 5 of City of Strangers is instructions for fighting the city of Kaer Maga?
It looks to me like the original request was for something similar for dealing with deities.
So the statblock on page 5 of City of Strangers is instructions for fighting the city of Kaer Maga?Well, if you can fight a gazeebo, why not take it up a notch when you attain a higher level? I may just unretire my high level fighter to kill the city of Greyhawk.
If you can't fight City Hall, how do you expect to fight the rest of the city too;p
if one seeks a stat block for non combat uses
one then should ask for a skill block instead, as you'd likely get what skills they had.
you want full stats, you ask and get combat deallings, the whole str,dex the 9 yards.
stats is the incorrect term.
Wrong.
Stats mean Statistics.
A god's statistics, and therefore stat block, is not it's combat information. It is Name, Alignment, Portfolio, Domains, Subdomains, Crede, Followers, and other pertinent information (stats) about said god.
If you don't want to read the thread, don't post on it. It's really quite that simple.
If you had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen that Jason chimed in on what the official Stat Block was for a deity in Golarian.
Sheesh, some people can't get their heads out of hack and slash long enough to learn anything else.
This post is not directed solely at Steel, he just had the bad luck to be the last of several people who couldn't be bothered to read the thread before proving they didn't.
Regarding gods and stats:
A god is not a high-CR monster. A god is a deity. It's combat stats consist of the following:
Attacks: [as many as the god desires] +infinity
Damage: Death
Save: NoneBasically, the god looks at you (or perhaps doesn't even deign to do that) and you cease to exist. If they're feeling spiteful, you cease to ever have existed.
hmmmm gods are as powerful as the mighty Lava now?!?!?
WTF KTHULHU!
lol
I would really love to have a good deity stat block so that I could create gods and demigods with something to provide inspiration (by making sure I have the fields filled) and a nice layout.
As was popinted out, Gods & Magic has the statblocks for the deities in them. It does not include newer stuff added to the game since it came out (it is a 3.5 book, not a Pathfinder) but it would not be hard to 'reimage' them for Pathfinder. I would start there for them.