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Honestly, all I am seeing from this thread is that the feat is fine, but bigger shields suck really, really badly.
I feel like I already knew that from Tower Shield's reputation...
Tower Shield really isn't that bad if you are a fighter with Mobile Bulwark Style. Heavy Shields are still best if you are going to use shield bashing, which is not a bad choice.
The feat itself is only really useful for styles that wouldn't normally have access to a shield, such as monks or magi.
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Honestly, all I am seeing from this thread is that the feat is fine, but bigger shields suck really, really badly.
I feel like I already knew that from Tower Shield's reputation...
Tower Shield really isn't that bad if you are a fighter with Mobile Bulwark Style. Heavy Shields are still best if you are going to use shield bashing, which is not a bad choice.
The feat itself is only really useful for styles that wouldn't normally have access to a shield, such as monks or magi.
Or anyone who fights with TWF or two-handed weapons.
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Or anyone who fights with TWF or two-handed weapons.Honestly, all I am seeing from this thread is that the feat is fine, but bigger shields suck really, really badly.
I feel like I already knew that from Tower Shield's reputation...
Tower Shield really isn't that bad if you are a fighter with Mobile Bulwark Style. Heavy Shields are still best if you are going to use shield bashing, which is not a bad choice.
The feat itself is only really useful for styles that wouldn't normally have access to a shield, such as monks or magi.
Two handed, yes. I maintain that using a real shield is still better for TWF than using two normal weapons + unhindering shield.
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Two handed, yes. I maintain that using a real shield is still better for TWF than using two normal weapons + unhindering shield.Or anyone who fights with TWF or two-handed weapons.Honestly, all I am seeing from this thread is that the feat is fine, but bigger shields suck really, really badly.
I feel like I already knew that from Tower Shield's reputation...
Tower Shield really isn't that bad if you are a fighter with Mobile Bulwark Style. Heavy Shields are still best if you are going to use shield bashing, which is not a bad choice.
The feat itself is only really useful for styles that wouldn't normally have access to a shield, such as monks or magi.
Maybe. I'd have to run the #s, and it would probably vary by class/build and level. At high levels I think that twin 18-20 weapons would be top TWF, especially with crit feats. Definitely for any class which specializes on a single weapon. (fighter/warpriest/samurai etc.) *shrug*
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Hey sorry for the bit of a necro, but I just though it would be funny to post this quick build I made up using armor masters handbook feats and options. 63 Ac raging using a 2 hander w/ no buffing spells, no defending weapons. Probably sub optimal to keep taking + AC feats at a point but w/e.
Human (Taldan) bloodrager (primalist, steelblood) 20 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 84, 85)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +9; Senses Perception +27
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Defense
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AC 63, touch 25, flat-footed 58 (+20 armor, +5 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 insight, +5 luck, +11 natural, +7 shield, +1 trait, -2 untyped penalty)
hp 324 (20d10+200)
Fort +32, Ref +23 (+1 bonus vs. trample attacks), Will +27 (+4 vs. enchantments); +2 bonus vs. spells cast by self or an ally
Defensive Abilities blood sanctuary, fortification 75%, indomitable will; Immune dazed, paralysis, petrification, staggered, stunning; Resist fire 30
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +5 impact impervious keen adamantine nodachi +39/+34/+29/+24 (2d8+29/15-20) or
2 claws +29 (1d8+11/×3)
Special Attacks blood casting, mighty bloodrage (47 rounds/day), pounce
Bloodrager (Primalist, Steelblood) Spells Known (CL 20th; concentration +24)
4th (3/day)—dimensional blade, fear (DC 18), freedom of movement, furious fire barrage (DC 18), monstrous physique II[UM], stoneskin
3rd (4/day)—fireball (DC 17), fly, haste, heroism, protection from energy, protection from energy, wind wall
2nd (5/day)—blur, glitterdust (DC 16), ironskin, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility
1st (5/day)—endure elements, enlarge person (DC 15), long arm[ACG], protection from chaos, protection from evil, shield, true strike
Bloodline Destined
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Statistics
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Str 36, Dex 18, Con 28, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 19
Base Atk +20; CMB +35 (+40 bull rush); CMD 57 (58 vs. overrun)
Feats Arcane Strike, Armor Focus, Blind-fight, Blooded Arcane Strike[ACG], Dodge, Endurance, Eschew Materials, Furious Focus[APG], Improved Armor Focus, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Leadership, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Unhindering Shield, Weapon Focus (nodachi)
Traits defender of the society, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +28, Appraise +0, Bluff +5, Climb +18, Diplomacy +5, Disguise +5, Escape Artist +5, Fly +5, Heal +4, Intimidate +28, Knowledge (arcana) +23, Perception +27, Ride +5, Sense Motive +4, Spellcraft +23, Stealth +5, Survival +4, Swim +18, Use Magic Device +23
Languages Common
SQ armor training 1, blood deflection, destined strike +10, fated bloodrager +5, indomitable stance, rage powers (beast totem[APG], beast totem, greater[APG], beast totem, lesser[APG], savage intuition), tireless bloodrage, unstoppable
Combat Gear quicken metamagic rod (lesser) (2); Other Gear +5 comfort greater fire resistance impervious mithral full plate, +5 heavy fortification adamantine buckler, +5 impact impervious keen adamantine nodachi[UC], dusty rose prism ioun stone, pale green prism ioun stone, amulet of natural armor +5, belt of physical perfection +6, boots of speed, cloak of resistance +5, headband of mental prowess +6 (Wis, Cha), ring of protection +5, 52,435 gp
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Special Abilities
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Adaptable Training (Acrobatics) (Ex) Use BAB in place of skill ranks for selected skill.
Adaptable Training (Intimidate) (Ex) Use BAB in place of skill ranks for selected skill.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Armor Specialization +5 (Full plate) (Ex) Increase armor bonus of chosen armor.
Armor Training 1 (Ex) Worn armor -1 check penalty, +1 max DEX.
Beast Totem +6 (Su) +6 to Natural Armor while raging.
Beast Totem, Greater (Su) Pounce ability and 1d8 claw damage while raging
Beast Totem, Lesser (Su) Gain 2 d6 claw attacks while raging
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Blood Casting (Su) Cast bloodrager spells while in bloodrage.
Blood Deflection (Su) Imm. act: sacrifice spell for defl. bonus to AC until start of next turn.
Blood Sanctuary +2 (Su) +2 bonus to save vs. spells cast by self or an ally.
Blooded Arcane Strike While bloodraging, Arcane Strike is always in effect and multiplies with Vital Strike.
Bloodrage (47 rounds/day) (Su) +8 Str, +8 Con, +4 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Destined Strike +10 (5/day) (Su) As a free action, gain insight bonus to one melee attack.
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Energy Resistance, Fire (30) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Fated Bloodrager +5 (Sp) Gain luck bonus to AC and saving throws when raging
Fortification 75% You have a chance to negate critical hits on attacks.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Immunity to Dazed You are immune to the dazed condition.
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Petrification You are immune to Petrification.
Immunity to Staggered Immune to staggered.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Indomitable Stance (Ex) +1 to Reflex vs. trample & to hit, dam, and AC vs. charging foe.
Indomitable Will (Ex) +4 bonus to Will saves vs. enchantment spells.
Leadership (score 24) You attract loyal companions and devoted followers.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Power Attack -6/+12 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Savage Intuition You may enter a rage at the beginning of combat without using an an action.
Tireless Bloodrage (Su) No longer fatigued after bloodraging.
Unhindering Shield Still gain buckler's AC bonus when use that hand for other purpose. Hand is considered free.
Unstoppable (Su) Criticals threats confirm on you on a natural 20, and yours auto-confirm.
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Hey sorry for the bit of a necro, but I just though it would be funny to post this quick build I made up using armor masters handbook feats and options.
It looks like the things you included from AMH were;
Feats
Armor Focus (Full Plate)
Improved Armor Focus (Full Plate)
Unhindering Shield
Advanced Armor Training options
Adaptable Training (Acrobatics)
Adaptable Training (Intimidate)
Armor Specialization (Full Plate)
You could swap the Adamantine Buckler and Unhindering Shield for a Darkwood Heavy Shield and Shield Brace for an additional +1 AC. In theory, you could even go up to a Tower Shield, but you'd need to apply a few more feats to make that viable.
So... A quick update:
I've seen this feat in use for a few weeks now. It really confirmed my early impressions...
This feat isn't overpowered... Buy, by all gods, is it boring!
It basically fuses 2 different combat styles (2-handed and sword & board). The guy who wanted to play a greatsword-wielding Slayer took it so he could use a shield... And the guy who wanted to play a sword & board Fighter took it so eh could two-hand his sword...
Now they are basically the same character. -.-'
I'd rather make S&B more effective in its own way rather than do so by making it and 2-handling effectively one and the same... So I'll probably be banning this feat in the future (I have plenty of house-rules buffing S&B).
This makes my brain hurt. I have to go lay down now.
Want a whole new headache? The presented Longsword is an Arming Sword, the Greatsword is more Longsword, Claymore arent mentioned, nor the fantastical Zweihanders, they didn't include Brigandine as armor, The Shortsword is more of a Dirk, they have the scythe as a usable weapon (laughs medievally) possibly confusing the farming implement with the Military Scythe(a deadly weapon with bare similarities) They have two kinds of horse, one which is INHERENTLY better or equal in all ways, instead of a myriad, (workhorse to light cavalry mount to scout to light warhorse to heavy warhorse to Destrier)
now admittedly I'm nitpicking but the whole games a mess of inaccuracies, which is why I'm writing my own equipment lists to fix it, because I'm insufferable and have too much time on my hands.
Can anyone post the text of this feat? I can't find it on d20pfsrd or Archives of Nethys.
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Something to note is that a lot of classes that would love to have this, Magus, Monk, etc. Don't have proficiency with bucklers. So they'd need to multiclass or take a 3rd feat to use this.
As a Magus I'd simply cast Shield. It takes a lot of work to do better than a +4 shield bonus that doesn't have any baggage attached to it... and is a force effect as well.
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<snark>
Clearly the Shield spell is vastly over-powered! It makes all shield using characters irrelevant and completely destroys the ability to play the game!
</snark>
^rude
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^rude<snark>
Clearly the Shield spell is vastly over-powered! It makes all shield using characters irrelevant and completely destroys the ability to play the game!
</snark>
Eight pages running on about how 'terrible' the Unhindering Shield feat is... and you think that was 'rude'?
I'll live.
I didn't know that calling ones comment rude was life threatening?
I don't really care one way or the other but I do know rude when I see it. Basically sarcastic remark dismissing everyone on one side of the argument (which by the length of the thread is a decent amount of people.)
Unhindering Shield has been out for some time now. Anyone seen it break the game in-person?
I hope it gets on d20pfsrd or archives soon. I've got a Dragon Disciple that might just need it.
Why has none of the armor master's handbook stuff been added to the d20pfsrd or archives yet?
Oh thanks for the help there man.
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Wondering if shennanigans can be had with this feat and an animated heavy shield nearby..
As a move action, an animated shield can be loosed to defend its wielder on its own. For the following 4 rounds, the shield grants its bonus to the one who loosed it and then drops. While animated, the shield provides its shield bonus and the bonuses from all of the other shield special abilities it possesses, but it cannot take actions on its own, such as those provided by the bashing and blinding abilities. It can, however, use special abilities that do not require an action to function, such as arrow deflection and reflecting. While animated, a shield shares the same space as the activating character and accompanies the character who activated it, even if the character moves by magical means. A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency. If the wielder who loosed it has an unoccupied hand, she can grasp it to end its animation as a free action. Once a shield has been retrieved, it cannot be animated again for at least 4 rounds. This special ability cannot be added to a tower shield.
Bolded parts discussed:
1. if you have a way to bash with the buckler, you can keep doing that while the heavy animated shield provides its defensive bonuses to AC and shield magic properties to you yes? in effect, you could just enhance the buckler as a weapon offensively, and keep the defensive enchantments on the heavy animated shield yes? this also leaves (while the heavy is animated) a free hand for potions or other feats that require a free hand yes? rondelero duelist allows for the interchanging of attacks between main hand and off-hand (as a straight iterative, without going through the TWF method) so someone with the shield feats could bash (target goes prone) then precise strike away on the prone target yes?)
2. unhindered shield makes your hand unoccupied so pretty straightforward that you can retrieve as a free action...
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PS: I don't get the bit about Weapon Finesse...
That's a leftover from when the feat still provided the benefit to both bucklers and light shields. The light shield bit was dropped during development, but it seems not all of the language was cleaned up to compensate for that fact.
With the way things went in this thread, I feel like dropping light shield support was probably a good call, though.
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PS: I don't get the bit about Weapon Finesse...That's a leftover from when the feat still provided the benefit to both bucklers and light shields. The light shield bit was dropped during development, but it seems not all of the language was cleaned up to compensate for that fact.
With the way things went in this thread, I feel like dropping light shield support was probably a good call, though.
Actually I looked up Weapon Finesse again, and it has a bit about shield ACP applying to attacks... (not that it will ever matter with a buckler which is usually ACP zero...)
Actually I looked up Weapon Finesse again, and it has a bit about shield ACP applying to attacks... (not that it will ever matter with a buckler which is usually ACP zero...)
It only matters if you are too impatient to at least wait until you can afford a masterwork buckler.
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PS: I don't get the bit about Weapon Finesse...That's a leftover from when the feat still provided the benefit to both bucklers and light shields. The light shield bit was dropped during development, but it seems not all of the language was cleaned up to compensate for that fact.
With the way things went in this thread, I feel like dropping light shield support was probably a good call, though.
Interesting.
Also explains why Precise Strike is listed despite that ability specifically allowing bucklers all along.
Thanks for the insight.
Unhindering Shield has been out for some time now. Anyone seen it break the game in-person?
How about now?
I'm very sorry for practicing the dark arts of necromancy here, but I'm looking at this feat a bit for my first two-handed fighter and something in the thread confused me.
On page 2 it's mentioned that a fighter can skip the shield focus prereq somehow and I cannot for the life of me figure out how that works. Perhaps it's simply the late hour or something might have changed since the posts in question, but could someone perhaps explain to me if/how that is a thing?
Also on page 2:
Characters with Armor Training can skip Shield Focus. So Fighters, Myrmidarch Magi, or anyone with VMC Fighter. Of course they would have to wait until they actually had Armor Training 1.
I noticed that but I don't really understand it. Armor training doesn't really mention anything about being able to skip prereqs and the feat itself doesn't seem to indicating it either?
It's from the Shield Mastery Feats section of the Armor Master's Handbook (page 18).
To some combatants shields are just as important, if not more so, than weapons or armor. Shields are multipurpose, capable of defense or offense. They slide on and off far faster than armor, and allow adventurers to change their tactics on a whim.
A handful of specialists train to maximize a shield’s use in battle. Presented here are new feats categorized as shield mastery feats, each requiring Shield Focus as a prerequisite. Characters with the armor training class feature can ignore the Shield Focus feat as a prerequisite for shield mastery feats. Shield mastery feats count as combat feats for all purposes, including which classes can select them as bonus feats. You gain the benefits of a shield mastery feat only while wielding a shield with which you are proficient. Characters with the Shield Focus feat also qualify for the Improved Shield Focus feat below.
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Oh, that does explain it. Our group usually just go with what we can find on the PFSRD and while there's a proper page for weapon and item mastery feats I couldn't find a similar thing for shield mastery feats.
Now that I knew what to look for I've been able to find it on Nethys and can provide the source to our GM. Many thanks!
You are welcome.
Edit: Added the Archives of Nethys link to my previous post.