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1. bracers capping dex. I understand it's for game balance, however there is no logic way to justify it. what's the in game explanation for why bracers would make you less agile? bracers +1/dex 7 would make so much more sense in a logical way and accomplish the same balance reasons.
2. the bastard sword isnt versatile - again I cant even fathom an in game reason for that, is there divine intervention at work?
3. great sword doesn't have reach? there isnt even a reasonable physical way to use it, so you dont have reach. the entire point of it's invention was to have a sword with the reach of a polearm.
anyone got any others? we aren't talking about magic, or people walking on water, just things that if we accept the rules of game world just dont make sense.
1. "You move too fast and the barrier around your body can't keep up. It usually keeps up pace and you can't really notice it, but right now you bump against the barrier when you dodge".
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This is just gonna be another thread full of people who want the swords to have more traits isn't it
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2. All bastard swords are actually executioner swords with rounded tips.
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3. Greatswords are actually real world longswords.
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This is just gonna be another thread full of people who want the swords to have more traits isn't it
it isnt even that it's just logic
if we accept what a longsword by the games rules
and we accept what a greatsword is by the game rules
how does the bastard sword lose a trait.
it's impossible, in the worst way. its literally the in-between size of the great sword and a long sword in the game world. how does that size make it no a cut and thrust sword anymore.
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This is just gonna be another thread full of people who want the swords to have more traits isn't itit isnt even that it's just logic
if we accept what a longsword by the games rules
and we accept what a greatsword is by the game rules
how does the bastard sword lose a trait.it's impossible, in the worst way. its literally the in-between size of the great sword and a long sword in the game world. how does that size make it no a cut and thrust sword anymore.
obviously the reason a bastard sword cannot peirce is because it's a bastard.
1. bracers capping dex. I understand it's for game balance, however there is no logic way to justify it. what's the in game explanation for why bracers would make you less agile? bracers +1/dex 7 would make so much more sense in a logical way and accomplish the same balance reasons.
the force field keeps getting caught on your clothing, and oh boy does it pinch if you're wearing none.
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The only reason why the bastard sword loses its ability to deal piercing damage in comparison to the longsowrd and greatsword is because its game statistics are usually also used to cover the katana, which really can't pierce very well...
/irony
This is just gonna be another thread full of people who want the swords to have more traits isn't itit isnt even that it's just logic
if we accept what a longsword by the games rules
and we accept what a greatsword is by the game rules
how does the bastard sword lose a trait.it's impossible, in the worst way. its literally the in-between size of the great sword and a long sword in the game world. how does that size make it no a cut and thrust sword anymore.
how do you know that?
maybe it's not only the size of the blade, but the shape that also changes and switches it from cut and thrust, to simply cut.
Maybe something like a broader, heavier blade than a longsowrd (hence why you can two hand it for more impact more efficiently)
p.s. we already know that the fantasy swords already have very little resemblance to actual swords either way.
you would be right except there are description and pictures in the book, so we know exactly what they look like. it makes 0 sense.
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They also mentioned that the bastard sword is great for slashing or piercing in its own item description, whoops.
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Is a greatsword normally used to make thrusting attacks? Kinda hard to imagine a greatsword having a fine enough point to do piercing damage.
Also, while we are at it, can someone please explain to me what it is about the light mace that makes it better at shoving people than other weapons like the club or morningstar?
Is it really easier to hit multiple targets with a hatchet?
How is it possible to hit someone with a morningstar and not do piercing damage?
The Volley trait on longbows bothered me at first, but I have actually come around to it. It reinforces the weapon's intended use as a battlefield weapon, and is somewhat justifiable because of the weapon's height.
It may seem like nit-picking, but stuff like this can be immersion breaking for me.
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IMHO, it's not that Greatsword is implausible to have equally fine/sharp point, but that it is heavy and awkward to use as Piercing weapon.
Really, the same applies to Bastard Sword as to why it's not also Piercing (despite description suggesting it is).
I mean, any/many weapons could plausibly have some corner case usage with different damage type,
but that seems more in realm of Improvised Weapon usage not using full normal damage dice with all other traits etc.
Greatsword pehaps should have different trait like Deadly 1d6 instead of Versatile (P).
(Versatile actually is great feature, both for Resistance and Vulnerability cherrypicking, but Deadly seems more appropo here)
re: Mace/Club, if a Club is light enough to be good throwing weapon, it seems reasonable it isn't actively better weapon than shoving them unarmed, which you can do with free hand. In terms of Morningstar, well it has big sharp spikes, which while useful for piercing damage, probably don't facilitate the weapon being beneficial for Shoving, since they tend to either impale or cause weapon head to rotate around target interfering with momentum. (it's easy enough to not to piercing damage by directly hitting them with head between spike points, or hitting off-center of spikes causing rotation with momentum transferred via bludgeoning head - maybe if they phrased it as Piercing, Versatile(B) that would have been more apparent, but I don't think there is difference)
I would say that it is strange neither Shields nor Shield Bosses have Shove trait, considering their specialization effect is a free Shove. I did actually report that for Errata. This seems like essence of complaint re: Shove and Club/Morningstar weapons since with free-hand they still can shove, but only with (non-Buckler) shield do they not have free hand to shove. If (non-Buckler) Shields have Shove trait (which certainly Bosses should, as Martial weapons) then that isn't a problem (and you can even enchant Boss for item bonuses).
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This is just gonna be another thread full of people who want the swords to have more traits isn't it
And it isn't like you would even WANT versatile (p) usually. If the bestiary hasn't changed, it falls mostly into "the thing you use in Skull and Shackles due to water rules".
As a GM, I would just allow someone to stab if they wanted to (assuming they we don't see some stabbing feats later on).
How about that normal explorer's clothes cap your dex?
It is clothing for people that travel a lot, so they need something durable. Everyone is actually wearing blue jeans.
Is a greatsword normally used to make thrusting attacks? Kinda hard to imagine a greatsword having a fine enough point to do piercing damage.
Also, while we are at it, can someone please explain to me what it is about the light mace that makes it better at shoving people than other weapons like the club or morningstar?
Well, the technique is to wield it on the dulled area so that you are using it like a spear. And where there is an stabbablee eyehole, there is a way.
Also, personal side grump- why do we still have both the light mace and the heavy mace? Two handing is not really a thing anymore, and the difference between the two is excessively granular ("very slightly bigger hit dice" vs "lighter, finesse capable, and cheaper").
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It looks like they may have changed the rules somewhere along the way for bracers.
Bracers of armor give a +1 item bonus to AC with no Dex modifier cap, and also grant a bonus to saves. This item can be found on page 607.
These stiff leather armguards grant you a +1 item bonus to AC and saving throws, and a maximum Dexterity modifier of +5. You can affix talismans to bracers of armor as though they were light armor.
If Bracers really are supposed to have a Dex Cap that means anyone who maximizes Dex is going to have to either give up entirely on armor and item save bonuses or give up on being able to take full advantage of their main attribute helping with AC. This seems very strange to me.
Looking at the Mage Armor spell, it now has a Dex Cap. I am guessing that the Armor Alternatives sidebar is in error and Explorer’s clothing becomes the armor of choice for high Dex characters.
Greatsword pehaps should have different trait like Deadly 1d6 instead of Versatile (P).
there's actually a way you can use the greatsword where you grip it further down on the blade section and use it more like a pike. there's a reason a lot of greatswords from history have sections unsharpened.
but well, you can do this with any sword, including a bastard sword.
edit: oh lemeres already said this
If Bracers really are supposed to have a Dex Cap that means anyone who maximizes Dex is going to have to either give up entirely on armor and item save bonuses or give up on being able to take full advantage of their main attribute helping with AC. This seems very strange to me.
it's pretty much impossible to get higher than 20 dex (or any attribute) until like level 15-17 with apex items, then get 24 at 20.
it's very far removed from something that's going to happen and only happens if you boost dex every single step of the way.
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silk is not elastic.
Silkworm silk has low elasticity. However, some forms of spider silk are highly elastic and more robust than Kevlar, carbon fiber, and steel:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658765/
How about that normal explorer's clothes cap your dex?
Starch. Moving too much causes chafing. ;)
Since the game doesn't give you a free set of clothing like in First Edition, all of the NPCs are essentially naked (none of their stat blocks mention clothing except for the occasional magic item and suit of armor).
Since the game doesn't give you a free set of clothing like in First Edition, all of the NPCs are essentially naked (none of their stat blocks mention clothing except for the occasional magic item and suit of armor).
Not true: I know at least one.
Tiefling Adept
Source Bestiary pg. 262
Items dagger, explorer's clothing, spellbook, staff
I had a similar talk about spellbooks on casters. It seems that they only list items used in combat and don't list anything else in the stat block: if listed it is usually done so somewhere elsewhere [like in a room description].
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Since the game doesn't give you a free set of clothing like in First Edition, all of the NPCs are essentially naked (none of their stat blocks mention clothing except for the occasional magic item and suit of armor).
If you don't have armor or special clothing it's assumed you have ordinary clothing or at least rags on. A lot of stat blocks don't mention the items and weapons the creature is carrying, only notable items the PCs might want to take.
I assume naked people are just really dexterous.
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The second printing changed this in the sidebar to say there's a dex cap.It looks like they may have changed the rules somewhere along the way for bracers.
Bracers of armor give a +1 item bonus to AC with no Dex modifier cap, and also grant a bonus to saves. This item can be found on page 607.These stiff leather armguards grant you a +1 item bonus to AC and saving throws, and a maximum Dexterity modifier of +5. You can affix talismans to bracers of armor as though they were light armor.If Bracers really are supposed to have a Dex Cap that means anyone who maximizes Dex is going to have to either give up entirely on armor and item save bonuses or give up on being able to take full advantage of their main attribute helping with AC. This seems very strange to me.
Looking at the Mage Armor spell, it now has a Dex Cap. I am guessing that the Armor Alternatives sidebar is in error and Explorer’s clothing becomes the armor of choice for high Dex characters.
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- Bracers - Strictly a game balance / future-proofing issue. As I linked above, Bracers were originally restricted to a +1 bonus but no Dex Cap, but they realized the was no better than a properly runed Explorer's outfit for anyone. When push comes to shove, it's just a magic thing...
- Bastard Sword - If made versatile, why would anyone use the Greatsword? No real 'in game' explanation.
- Greatsword - The Greatsword is described as '...nearly as tall as its wielder' which makes it a bit shorter than actual polearms. Greatswords seem to be just shy of the reach that produces the actual'reach' trait in game.
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Giving a little further thought to the Bracers, a semi-decent in game explanation might be that while the bracers don't actually slow you down, they just can't keep up with you if you react too quickly, reducing the item bonus slightly due to the resulting gaps in its protection. As such, you can technically apply a higher dex bonus, but you can never get more than the magic bonus + 5 in total.
For example, if a thief 20 with a 24 dexterity uses Bracers +3, he is actually using his full +7 dexterity bonus but he only gets a +1 item bonus (instead of +3) because he is moving too quickly for the bracers to fully protect him.
Of course, this explanation falls apart if you combine bracers +1 with a +7 dex bonus and end up with a -1 item 'bonus' but other than that, it seems fairly solid...
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The bracers literally give you a force field. Who says that field is entirely weightless, or more importantly for Dex caps, without momentum? Really, this one's pretty easy to justify in a lot of different ways.
For the greatword lacking reach...it's a fair bit shorter than the polearms that actually do grant reach (most of which are more than 7 feet long), with the sole exception of halberds, and even those are up to 6 feet long (which is longer than the vast majority of real swords, even those in the 'greatsword' category, like claymores). So really, if anything, the halberd should probably lose Reach rather than the Greatsword gaining it.
For the bastard sword...yeah, there's no in-world explanation there, it's pure game balance. But it's necessary game balance and thus not easily fixed.
The thing about reach is explained by "reach" is ultimately a function of the length of your grip, not the length of your weapon. Greatswords have a generous like 22" grip, but this is nothing on "the sharp part is on the end of a 6' long pole, each part of which is handleable."
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The thing about reach is explained by "reach" is ultimately a function of the length of your grip, not the length of your weapon. Greatswords have a generous like 22" grip, but this is nothing on "the sharp part is on the end of a 6' long pole, each part of which is handleable."
It's best not to think about reach while applying logic: A gargantuan and a tiny reach weapon extend your reach 5' so pixie longspear and a rune giants longspear both go 5' past your natural reach even when a creature is a different size.
I assume those who are sticklers also wonder how reach is five feet whether using a rapier (real-life smallsword), longsword (arming sword), or fist (nonsword). In this case I'd put it down to the abstraction needed for the game to function (and lingering name issues).
It's either that or wonder how the halfling barbarian is carrying around a guisarme (in the 'walking around' sense).
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I assume naked people are just really dexterous.