Well this brings up a point I asked everyone here earlier. Has anyone made any good races with the builder that take advantage of these missing gaps in representation. I'm not talking about people who have abused the race builder either mind you, but people who have taken advantage of the ability to be diverse.
{. . .}
Problem is that the Race Builder is pre-abused. For instance, Svirfneblin are good, but not **28 RP good**, while Ifrits/Oreads/Sylphs/Undines aren't SO MUCH WORSE than Suli that it makes sense for them to be only 6 RP to 7 RP compared to Suli at 16 RP. Even among the Core Races, I wouldn't agree with Human being worth less RP than most of the others (the exceptions being Half-Orc and Halfling) -- Human just has too much good stuff to pass up, and (with the exception of no easy way to get Darkvision early) seems like a min-maxer's dream as long as you don't have access to things that have a LOT more RP (Human gets a bonus feat and more skill points as well as a floating +2, or can trade these in for **2** floating +2's, etc. -- especially important at low point buy and for MAD classes/builds).
Really need a rebuild of the Race Builder, especially now that it has been left behind by a HUGE influx of new options for existing races.
* * * * * * * *
Also, the sheer profusion of races means that a lot of them are not nearly as well fleshed out as they should be (actually, it didn't have to be this way -- if the same care had been devoted to these as to some monster entries with expanded Background/Ecology, it wouldn't be a problem). For instance, Changelings have a kernel of a really interesting backstory, but then they are left sadly underdeveloped, while more varieties of their metamorphosed forms were just thrown into more recent Bestiaries (also leaving Covens sadly underdeveloped).
The more common (honorary Core) races Aasimar and Tiefling have this problem partly alleviated, but even for them, some fleshing out would be in order (for instance, WHAT KIND OF DEMON you are descended from should make a difference, and somebody should do something about that obsolete Fiendish Heritage feat).
^I'd be fine with leaving it in the dustbin, if only something actually said that in capacity sufficiently official to make it into the various PRDs.
Forgot to include tengu, awesome crow people, Bloody Beak, and a katana, nuff said!
I like androids.
No particular mechanical reason, but I really enjoy the feel of an android magus.
SO much yes on merfolk head-butts! That is priceless.
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I really like grippli, because they remind me of halflings, which I also love. Playing those races as an adventurer just makes the character seem much braver in my eyes, since they are so small and harmless looking. I'm also a big fan of kenku and ratfolk, thanks to having watched The Secret of NIMH half a hundred times while growing up.
Another grippli fan here. They're little frog people. FROG PEOPLE!
Thats the spirit, also, raging tail slap!
Since there isn't a real dragon race in Pathfinder, my favorite would be Kitsune.
I am also a fan of the undine and witchwolf skinwalkers.
I think the kobolds would be highly offended to hear you say that Matrix Dragon ;)
They can be offended all they want, they are just kobolds;)
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I'm offended that kobolds would dare try to put themselves on the level of a dragon.
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Don't make me go find Kobold Cleaver, I'll do it, I mean it!
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I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
What about the Wyveran? They are pretty dragon like. They need more development(another reason why I want a second race book) but they are very dragon.
Also there are race traits and feats to make Kobolds scales a metallic color and more inclinded to good. Which makes other good races more likely to trust and or like them.
I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
What about the Wyveran? They are pretty dragon like. They need more development(another reason why I want a second race book) but they are very dragon.
Also there are race traits and feats to make Kobolds scales a metallic color and more inclinded to good. Which makes other good races more likely to trust and or like them.
Well... unfortunately Wyverans are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They gain flight too early to be a Player race in most campaigns. It would be nice to see them get developed more though.
Well... unfortunately Wyverans are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They gain flight too early to be a Player race in most campaigns. It would be nice to see them get developed more though.What about the Wyveran? They are pretty dragon like. They need more development(another reason why I want a second race book) but they are very dragon.
Also there are race traits and feats to make Kobolds scales a metallic color and more inclinded to good. Which makes other good races more likely to trust and or like them.
I don't think their flight is too bad, but then again this is coming from a DM/player that wishes he could see more uncommon races in games. Their flight is 30ft and clumsy, hovering and turns without feats would be difficult. Not like Strix though I like them too
All of the races from the Legendary Planet AP! So awesome!
The Zvarr would be the "weakest" of those, in some regards, but I still think they're pretty cool! Incidentally, they happen to be mildly dragon-like...
For other third party races, the Anumus, Boggle, Kval, Muse, Numistian, Oakling, Obitu, Relluk, Squole, Taddol, Xax, and Zif from Alluria; the Dreamscarred remakes () as well as their Noral race; and am starting to gain interest in the Piper race.
Obviously, I can't really use all of these at the same time, but I find all of them awesome in some regard or another, and enjoy the concepts, mechanics, images, lore, or all three from them to some extent or another.
For more Paizo-oriented fair, Aasimar, Android, Changeling, Drow, Fetchling, Gillmen, Hobgoblin, Kitsune, Lashunta, Samsaran, Shabti, Strix, Svirfneblin, Triaxian, and Wyrwood are all "favorites" for various reasons in various contexts.
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I love goblins, +4 to dex, small size, also fun to roleplay, what's not to love?
I always liked goblins, but I always considered them an OP race, in PF just as much as in 3E. +4 dex, small size, 30ft movement, and good skill bonuses... and that's not even all. The penalties don't balance those out. None of the player races have a +4, nor do any of the small races have a 30ft movement (heck dwarves are bigger yet slower).
I'm having a lot of fun with my hobgoblin cleric of Abadar, though. Bringing capitalism from the human settlements he grew up in back to the hobgoblin empire he and his kin were exiled from when he was a kid.
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Gotta love the monkey goblin
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I love goblins, +4 to dex, small size, also fun to roleplay, what's not to love?I always liked goblins, but I always considered them an OP race, in PF just as much as in 3E. +4 dex, small size, 30ft movement, and good skill bonuses... and that's not even all. The penalties don't balance those out. None of the player races have a +4, nor do any of the small races have a 30ft movement (heck dwarves are bigger yet slower).
I'm having a lot of fun with my hobgoblin cleric of Abadar, though. Bringing capitalism from the human settlements he grew up in back to the hobgoblin empire he and his kin were exiled from when he was a kid.
Well Orcs have a +4 on Strength. Make for scary Barbarians
... and -2 to wisdom, making for horrifying barbarians... to their party.
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Every race is overpowered if you find the right combination. My Halfling Archeologist couldn't be stopped.
I took a shine to the variant Skinwalkers. The tiger one and bat one are probably my personal favorites.
Aside from them, Tengu, but they've gotten enough love to almost be core at this point. Tiefling and Dhampir are in that same boat.
Everything is gonna change with the horror book xD some of those corruptions look and sounds amazing. I cannot wait to use that system in my games to be honest and expand beyond even what the races normally offer.
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I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.
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I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
say what you will about Kobolds, but they have great racial feats and archetypes. That would make for the best sniper I can think of. Of course the best race is hobgoblins. It's okay, we're just too strong. Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to go strangle an elf...
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say what you will about Kobolds, but they have great racial feats and archetypes. That would make for the best sniper I can think of. Of course the best race is hobgoblins. It's okay, we're just too strong. Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to go strangle an elf...I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
With what strength bonus are you strangling that elf? You two have the same statistical chance at arm wrestling.
You should challenge them to a wing-eating contest, or something else con-based.
Edit: Or Underwater Basket-Weaving.
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say what you will about Kobolds, but they have great racial feats and archetypes. That would make for the best sniper I can think of. Of course the best race is hobgoblins. It's okay, we're just too strong. Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to go strangle an elf...I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
With what strength bonus are you strangling that elf? You two have the same statistical chance at arm wrestling.
You should challenge them to a wing-eating contest, or something else con-based.
Edit: Or Underwater Basket-Weaving.
I just see a wizard and go badass mode. Pretty easy for me, as I am inspired by my superiority. Some people think not having positive emotions is a bad thing, but I just feel hateful towards the [insert offensive name for elves] you know?
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I just see a wizard and go badass mode. Pretty easy for me, as I am inspired by my superiority. Some people think not having positive emotions is a bad thing, but I just feel hateful towards the knife-ears you know?say what you will about Kobolds, but they have great racial feats and archetypes. That would make for the best sniper I can think of. Of course the best race is hobgoblins. It's okay, we're just too strong. Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to go strangle an elf...I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
With what strength bonus are you strangling that elf? You two have the same statistical chance at arm wrestling.
You should challenge them to a wing-eating contest, or something else con-based.
Edit: Or Underwater Basket-Weaving.
Yeah, thats the spirit! Positive emotions are just what the weak races use to feel loved! By their stupid... families. and whatever.
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Yeah, thats the spirit! Positive emotions are just what the weak races use to feel loved! By their stupid... families. and whatever.I just see a wizard and go badass mode. Pretty easy for me, as I am inspired by my superiority. Some people think not having positive emotions is a bad thing, but I just feel hateful towards the knife-ears you know?say what you will about Kobolds, but they have great racial feats and archetypes. That would make for the best sniper I can think of. Of course the best race is hobgoblins. It's okay, we're just too strong. Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to go strangle an elf...I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
With what strength bonus are you strangling that elf? You two have the same statistical chance at arm wrestling.
You should challenge them to a wing-eating contest, or something else con-based.
Edit: Or Underwater Basket-Weaving.
I like you. i'll see to it that you are enslaved to nobles rather than lower class Hobgoblins...
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I like you. i'll see to it that you are enslaved to nobles rather than lower class Hobgoblins...Yeah, thats the spirit! Positive emotions are just what the weak races use to feel loved! By their stupid... families. and whatever.I just see a wizard and go badass mode. Pretty easy for me, as I am inspired by my superiority. Some people think not having positive emotions is a bad thing, but I just feel hateful towards the Pollenpuffs you know?say what you will about Kobolds, but they have great racial feats and archetypes. That would make for the best sniper I can think of. Of course the best race is hobgoblins. It's okay, we're just too strong. Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to go strangle an elf...I felt the same way you do, but I made it a challenge to myself to build a melee Kobold (a Stabold, if you will) and I think this guy holds up pretty well. Could he be better? Mechanically sure, but the character wouldn't be the same.I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.
Plus they aren't really dragons ;)
With what strength bonus are you strangling that elf? You two have the same statistical chance at arm wrestling.
You should challenge them to a wing-eating contest, or something else con-based.
Edit: Or Underwater Basket-Weaving.
Of course! The Lizardfolk have the best racials for meaningful labor. I dare say we should be the ones enslaving you! Heh. That's a little joke.
We're also really good at finding food when things get scarce.
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Playing kobolds is just plain fun. Their stats might suck, but if I'm playing a game where every combat isn't a deathtrap, the fact that they have an inferiority complex and want so desperately to be dragons makes for great roleplaying.
Having a little kobold warrior yearning to make her patron dragon proud is just too great of a concept to not play a time or two.
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Ifrits: I love playing as them, being the pyromaniac with a chip on his shoulder, or as a bard.
Pixies: I know this is a BS race, but I just love the idea of playing as an annoying little tinkerbell with invisibility. Seriously, it's hard to take a pixie druid seriously, even when her buddy is a freaking elephant.
Ogres: Yes, they're OP stat-wise, but they allow some nice, nonoptimal caster builds. An Ogre Witch with massive reach and a poleaxe? Hilarious. Especially when he just uses it to push melee enemies back so he can put them to sleep
Changelings: Fun. So much fun. Being a sexy changeling Amazoness and then going "Yeah, that's my mother" when the party confronts a hag? The look on everyone's faces is just great.
Yes, I've recently begun to explore options for Changelings, and I'm really enjoying both the flavor and the mechanics. I'm toying with the concept of a Witchborn Changeling as a Cabalist Vigilante. Probably focusing on claws for combat.
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I feel like this game needs some sort of playable insect race. I've always dug the artwork for the Insect Knight from Yugioh xD
That can be done in several ways, Adam, depending on what you like or want. I'll get back to you more when I can, though you might want to start a new thread.
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I had this idea for a NPC in a campaign im writing that would be a Gorilla Warrior. He'd be sentient because he's being possessed by the ghost of a dead warrior. Can that be done? still kind of new to all this so I wasnt sure
That can be done in several ways, Adam, depending on what you like or want. I'll get back to you more when I can, though you might want to start a new thread.
Okay! So!
I need a little bit of information, because there are a lot of ways we could go about doing this.
Here are just a few off the top of my head (no research or anything like that):
- 1) the awaken spell plus flavoring
- 2) ghost
- 3) shadow demon
- 4) vetala vampire
- 5) skeletal champion or juju zombie or prana ghost caster with magic jar
- 6) haunted one template (probably want something else, though, too, technically not legal)
- 7) the gorilla king
Each have their strengths and weaknesses. I'll go down the list in brief.
Before we do, I'll link a few things, and discuss a few presumptions I made.
- Gorilla; I presume this is the creature you want! Let me know, if otherwise!
- Warrior; you mentioned this as a "warrior" so my basic presumption is that you mean this class; that said, you could easily mean "old warrior witch" or "the barbarian - a mighty warrior is he!" or something. My advice doesn't change much, but the tone might.
- You used the term "he" so I will too, though I could also see this going as a "she" - I don't know which you'd prefer, but I'm leaving the term as-used above.
- You said "dead" so I'm presuming undead. While there are other possibilities (like the creature died, had its soul processed, and turned into a demon, say; or you just re-flavor stuff), that's the most obvious route, to me. That said, I'm also dropping a few other possibilities in.
1) The awaken spell: link to the spell
- PROS: It is quick, instantaneous (so it can't be dispelled) easy-to-understand, rules-wise, and pretty much the only thing you'd do is add warrior (or whatever) levels to a gorilla. It can be any alignment you want - good, evil, neutral, lawful, or chaotic - with no real fluff-related concerns.
- CONS: The fluff (lore/etc.) doesn't match up, and there aren't any cool weaknesses you could give the bad guy without entirely making them up. The gorilla will never be anything other than a sentient gorilla, unless you alter the rules (which is fine; you should just be careful how you do so). You also have to answer how the warrior got a hold of the spell (though you could just fluff it as, "Their angry spirit rose from beyond and possessed this gorilla - same effect as an awaken spell." and call it a day, if you wanted). Further, unless you're just satisfied with hefty gorilla levels, you'll likely be adding warrior levels, which increases complexity... but also, you don't want to make him too big of a warrior, lest you accidentally make him so strong as to provoke a TPK. You also have to figure out how he gets his equipment, if he does.
2) Ghost: link to the template
- PROS: Again, this is quick and easy, though slightly more complex. Again, any alignment you like is available within the rules. Because the ghost is possessing the creature, something like dispel evil (or similar spells against -good or any other alignment) could force the ghost out, creating cool weaknesses, and things like protection from evil or magic circle against evil (or -good or whatever) could make for cool ways to shut down the possessing creature, making for a potentially interesting combat.
- CONS: It is a bit more complex. You have to create and stat out a warrior (or whatever class you choose) who has a charisma solid enough to easily possess the gorilla, but not so easily that his other ghost abilities destroy the party. The ghost's malevolence ability (the thing it would need to possess the gorilla) functions like the magic jar spell - which means that it lasts for 10 hours at a time, unless the warrior is 11 levels or higher... which, if you want more, relegates this guy to a pretty high level, which, in turn, would mean a "gorilla" isn't really the "right" choice for such a creature to possess. On the other hand, if it's a lower level, what does the gorilla do for the 14 hours a day it's not being possessed? (Note: it's easily possible for the ghost to possess it 24/7, but that prompts more will saves, and that means an ever-greater chance of it suddenly becoming unable to be possessed for 24 hours. Still, it could be done.) You also have to figure out how he gets his equipment, if he does.
3) Shadow demon: link to the creature
- PROS: easier than the ghost, still able to be exorcised from the host gorilla, and it's got daylight powerlessness - which explains why it borrows the gorilla's body in the daylight hours.
- CONS: it can only magic jar once per day, which lasts for ten hours; what does the gorilla do? Also, a shadow demon is a crazy-powerful opponent for many classes at many levels. Be cautious. Also, it's tied pretty strongly to "demon" flavor - you may always easily change flavor around, but as-written, it's less "ancient warrior spirit" and more "evil demon spirit from beyond" - though you could simply call it "the corrupted spirit of an ancient warrior" or something. No choice about alignments, unless you want to step away from the rules as-written (which, by the way, is a great idea, if that's what you want to do!).
4) Vetala Vampire: I link for the noise!
- PROS: IT'S DAGGUM COOL. experiences may vary, act now while supplies last, see your GM for details A vetala can possess the gorilla, and, once the gorilla is slain, can then possess the corpse turning it into a zombie gorilla! THIS IS THE CCCCCOOOOOLLLLLEEEEESSSSSTTTT. >:I Uh, er, I mean... it's pretty neat. I guess. (Also, even when "destroyed"... it still gets better! Woo~! Recurring monkey villain!)
- CONS: WELP. All good things must come to an end. Vampiric weaknesses (though these could be cool, they could also turn into GM frustration time), the incredible danger of them draining prana and paralyzing your PCs, the fact that the vampire can retain control for fewer hours (unless it's rocking a solid 30+ charisma) than its contemporaries.
5) Skeletal Champion or Juju Zombie or Prana Ghost: Skeltor, Rob, or Casper.
- PROS: really quite flavorful choices, the creatures don't have to be that powerful to snag the templates, and it can be fairly easy to balance things.
- CONS: you have to have some method of granting them access to magic jar or some other body-possession effect. The most obvious one is to make them a caster of some sort... but then you're not exactly a "warrior". The other alternate is to give them a magic item... but then your PCs will definitely* get their hands on it, and that... can be... tricky. Having a magic item can also be problematic in the sense that it can be either indiscriminate (making it too powerful to fall into PC hands) or (by way of restrictions and requirements and intermittent functioning effects and so on) overly-finely tuned (making it worthless to the PCs, and a drain on the NPC wealth... making it even more worthless to the PCs once they beat the bad guy). Regardless, for things like duration, there are a few things that can help with magic jar use: things like spirit jars could be useful. The other downside to magic items is that it obviously doesn't work for the most flavorful option: the prana. Still, something to consider.
* Probably.
6) Haunted One Template: TEMPLATE-FU~!
- PRO: Really easy: take a gorilla, put this template on it, watch the intelligence go from two to four, voila!
- CON: Not, uh... not actually a legal use of the template. Whoops.
7) The Gorilla king: LINKAGE!!
- PROS: It's got lore attached to the main Campaign setting, it's got a simple method of working, and it's got a reasonable effect. If the gorilla dude you've got didn't want to challenge Ruthazek (or tried and failed, left for dead), it's possible they fled and went to <insert where your campaign is happening> to get away from that Gorilla king and the influence of Angazhan, where they ran into your PCs.
- CONS: It's just a sentient gorilla, again, like the first one. Also, it's not so much "long dead" as "alive, then killed but immediately brought back from the dead as a gorilla.
[ooc]That said, it could be a matter of bad timing. If a previous applicant to be the gorilla king had, by luck, trick, or quirk of whatever, happened to be victorious, and had gotten atop the pyramid, and touched an idol and was killed... but, say, a meddling adventurer (the same one that had made it so easy to kill the previous king - or maybe had long ago killed the king in the first place), unable to destroy the totem, left a single-use temporal stasis effect that went off as soon as the idol was touched, then it's quite possible the gorilla guy was "long dead" by technicality before being dispelled and suddenly waking up from stasis due to... whatever you want to say it was due to... and incarnating back to life. But that's pretty far from your original concept.
Hope those help!
Also, for the possessors/magic jar people, something like major curse and pugwampi's grace are both useful for debuffing saves v. possession. As could a shaken condition, perhaps imposed with an intimidate check, with speak with animals to ensure no failure or weirdness with using an intimidate check on an animal.
Of course, given that it is an animal, you might even be able to use handle animal to just out-and-out train the thing to explicitly flub its will-saves against possession (though this would be pretty specific and esoteric training, I submit). Depending on the kind of "dead" creature you use, it could be part of the religious observance of a local province or something (so, for example, either directly subservient people doing this for a dead warrior master; or people unaffiliated-except-by-vaguely-religious association training gorillas to be special receptacles for the spirits of their dead warriors-okay-this-is-too-stupidly-cool-not-to-use-at-some-point*), or perhaps even the spirit itself training a family pod or three of gorillas in some sort of animal version of religion... or just by the simple Pavlovian method... so that they intentionally fail their will saves against domination.
WELP. I KNOW WHAT'S APPEARING IN MY NEXT CAMPAIGN.
I will make it fit. >:I
*
EDIT: To add a link to the best Scooby Doo version...