7-20 All for Immortality Part 1: First Taste of Eternity

[Serisan]

First off, I'm writing this during a preliminary read-through. Wow. This is absolutely amazing. Great work, Thurston.

PFS Prep users: I have uploaded Hero Lab portfolio files to the site for both Kaarim and Imlathre in subtier 12-13. Modifying them for 14-15 shouldn't be that difficult, but they are a slight bit messy looking for validation errors. The numbers should all be right or very close to it and assume the written Before Combat tactics occur.

Some questions:

Pg 12: Does the Enhanced Magic trait replace the normal effects (+2 CL on select spells) with the Quickened effect, or is it supplemented?

Pg 12: For the subjective directional gravity, are players assumed to default to down = land upon unwilling entry?

subjective directional gravity:

Subjective Directional Gravity: The strength of gravity on a plane with this trait is the same as on the Material Plane, but each individual chooses the direction of gravity's pull. Such a plane has no gravity for unattended objects and nonsentient creatures. This sort of environment can be very disorienting to the newcomer, but it is common on "weightless" planes.

Characters on a plane with subjective directional gravity can move normally along a solid surface by imagining "down" near their feet. If suspended in midair, a character "flies" by merely choosing a "down" direction and "falling" that way. Under such a procedure, an individual "falls" 150 feet in the first round and 300 feet in each succeeding round. Movement is straight-line only. In order to stop, one has to slow one's movement by changing the designated "down" direction (again, moving 150 feet in the new direction in the first round and 300 feet per round thereafter).

It takes a DC 16 Wisdom check to set a new direction of gravity as a free action; this check can be made once per round. Any character who fails this Wisdom check in successive rounds receives a +6 bonus on subsequent checks until he or she succeeds.

Pg 19: Magic Vestment is not prepared or listed as a scroll/oil. Is Kaarim's armor just magical, as suggested by the Other Gear?

[John Compton]

Enhanced Magic: Following a conversation I had with Jason, it sounds like the Astral Plane's rules supersede the standard Enhanced Magic rules. That is to say the +2 CL is not applied.

Subjective Gravity: Yeah, I'd give them a starting gravity of "rocks = down."

Magic Vestment: That must be a development oversight on my part—perhaps a temporary fix I had in place before switching to another solution. Yes, assume the armor is enchanted in the traditional, more permanent way.

[Slothsy]

On the chronicle, it lists the 14-15 gauntlets of mighty strength as +6 but mentions it functions as a +4 belt. I'm assuming they function as +6.

[John Compton]

Rigby Bendele wrote:

On the chronicle, it lists the 14-15 gauntlets of mighty strength as +6 but mentions it functions as a +4 belt. I'm assuming they function as +6.

Correct.

[Iammars]

How far is it from the Citadel of the Alchemist to Pashow? There's no real mention of time in the whole "waiting for someone to get attacked" part, and I feel like that's a crucial detail that players are going to want to know.

[Serisan]

According to ISWG, Pashow is remarkably close. It eyeballs to about 75 miles.

[Iammars]

Ah, that makes sense.

Also, I find it very amusing that this is the 3rd scenario that the PCs can be responsible for the death of Janira. (Well, 4th if you try hard enough.)

[Serisan]

James McTeague wrote:

Ah, that makes sense.

Also, I find it very amusing that this is the 3rd scenario that the PCs can be responsible for the death of Janira. (Well, 4th if you try hard enough.)

It would be remarkably difficult to manage that in this scenario, all things considered. I would imagine that the mechanic continues in the series and so you're looking at part 2 or part 3 where she's actually going to be threatened with death. The "work your way up from the bottom" instruction and maximium of 2 deaths on a catastrophic failure hold you back here.

This, though, is the real key line of that section:

Quote:

If you know the PCs have regularly been critical of in-game venture-captains and other volunteer leaders, ham it up and give the players a taste of their own medicine.

[Iammars]

Yeah, I was assuming that the mechanic continued in the series, although if the other 2 have similar mechanics, you'll need to do badly in this one on her team otherwise it'll be hard to kill her off later.

I mean, not that I would actively try to kill her off...

[Serisan]

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure...

[Serisan]

Now that I think about it, you could theoretically kill Janira if you...

1. Assign the Scroll-Seekers to Quell the Riots
2. Catastrophically fail
3. Roll 2 on the d2 deaths
4. Loaralis detonates all 3 pillars AND
5. The party leaves poor Janira buried under the rubble while they fight Loaralis.

[John Compton]

Yep, it is just possible to kill off two entire teams during this adventure, as Serisan notes. Likewise, I can confirm this mechanic appears in each of the adventures in this series, so there are likely more deaths to come.

Janira just happens to be the last to possibly die as part of the Scroll-Seekers, meaning the PCs get to deal with her tearful reports about how the PCs' mismanagement killed yet another one of her friends.

For years, players have complained that Venture-Captain Sheila Heidmarch a) didn't provide enough information before adventures, b) didn't give the PCs free equipment for missions, and c) didn't seem to care about the dangerous circumstances into which she sent agents—concerns I've tried to combat while at Paizo. Players have also seemed to assume that she and other venture-captains have all of the answers and unlimited resources, rather than just being accomplished adventurers who run lodges out-of-pocket. Now those same players get to play the part of Sheila and other Society leaders they've spent their careers demonizing. As the adventure advises, if you know that the players/PCs are critical of their venture-captains for perceived tight-fistedness, lack of empathy, or incompetence, let the NPC Pathfinder teams give them a taste of their own medicine. You may have heard the classic parental line "I hope your children are as terrible to you as you are being to me." Have some fun with it. Leadership isn't easy.

[Ragoz]

I'm a little surprised Venture Captains don't get a +1 bonus to preparing the teams but I really like this idea and it really reinforces how valued your characters have become to the society. I can't wait to see where it leads.

For those looking for hard mode it is there at the very end. It feels a little tacked on but it's a pretty significant change for the encounter.

[Wraith235]

John Compton wrote:

Janira just happens to be the last to possibly die as part of the Scroll-Seekers, meaning the PCs get to deal with her tearful reports about how the PCs' mismanagement killed yet another one of her friends.

I am REALLY Suprised they have kept her around after how many times she is mercessily slaughtered at the hands of the aspis agents in that 1 scenario

John Compton wrote:

if you know that the players/PCs are critical of their venture-captains for perceived tight-fistedness, lack of empathy, or incompetence

lol. my players always complained about Hakeem and the baubles for his daughters

[Thurston Hillman]

There was a certain amount of callbacks that I wanted to include in this. Especially as a reward to players who've been playing since The Confirmation / Wounded Wisp.

True Dragons of Absalom Spoiler:

I did try to come up with some way of including mention of the specialty planar adventuring party presented in True Dragons, but it didn't click. Another time, perhaps.

[Iammars]

Oh I noticed the callbacks. My initial reaction was "Hey, there's those half-orcs from the Wounded Wisp! Awesome! I like how they brought them back... ... ... Oh cool JanirATHRAX IS BACK! YAY!"

[Serisan]

So, because this scenario has a unique tier, what are the subtier determination rules? For example, does a table of 6 with APL 13.6 go high tier 4-player due to rounding, despite 13 itself landing within a tier?

I don't think this will be an issue to resolve for my upcoming table, but I didn't notice any discussion of this issue in the scenario itself and I think it bears clarifying.

[Slothsy]

I would assume that rounding still applies. After all, if you are 13.6 or higher, that means that you've got at least a couple 14s in the party. However, you would not be playing with the 4-player adjustment, as you would be rounding up to 14-15. The APL/subtier rules are kind of weird here, since there is no gap level.

I started running this last night. The group I'm running for starts at about 6:30 and ends about 4 hours later. However, there's a number of breaks involved (regular 15-minute breaks about once an hour) and we started with pretty substantial character introductions, so we didn't get completely started until 7:00ish. I found that the first fight took my group about an hour and a half to fully resolve. It would have gone longer, but the 15th level wizard (everyone else was level 12) hit Imlathre with a persistent chains of light with a DC 29 save, and that was that. So, essentially, the first fight so far seems to be a bit of a doozy.

My group decided to spend additional time really roleplaying out their experiences as venture captains. They gave in-character venture captain briefings, went through their gear and gave "appropriate" assistance and I made up questions that mirrored the questions the players like to ask of VCs ("What sort of enemies are we going to be fighting? Will you bail us out of jail? Collateral damage okay?"). They really got into it, especially once the players realized these NPCs were ones they had relationships with.

Sadly, I think that for convention runs, this is the easiest part to cut down on. However, having seen how well my group responded to this, I'm going to try to streamline combat a bit and the initial set-up. I think part of the reason my party liked it is that during set-up I asked everyone what their PC felt about the Society's leadership and Venture Captains - it was primed in their mind.

We left off right before heading down into the vaults. I'll probably pop in next week with an update on how long it takes them to go through the vaults.

[Serisan]

Regarding callbacks, are there scenarios for any members of the Kernaug Group?

[John Compton]

Serisan wrote:

Regarding callbacks, are there scenarios for any members of the Kernaug Group?

None yet!

Group Backgrounds:

Each of the scenario authors created one of the "B Team" groups. Thursty created the Axe-Fixers (including two of his NPCs from The Wounded Wisp). Wes and Amanda created the Kernaug Group, whose team members are all new but might inspire some other adventures in the future—definitely now that they provide us a neat hook in Lepidstadt. I created the Scroll-Seekers, borrowing a few favorite characters from past adventures.

[Serisan]

Most excellent. Thanks John!

Re: pillars in the Loaralis fight - Disable Device takes 2d4 rounds to disarm a trap typically and Loaralis can detect any tampering through her psychic connection. Does this mean that she would detect at the beginning or end of a disable check? I'm assuming towards the end because otherwise she'll just detonate the thing.

Sneaky edit! - Loaralis does not qualify for Deadly Stroke in either subtier due to lacking Greater Weapon Focus. Ignore the prerequisite and treat her Bite as qualifying?

[John Compton]

Serisan wrote:

Most excellent. Thanks John!

Re: pillars in the Loaralis fight - Disable Device takes 2d4 rounds to disarm a trap typically and Loaralis can detect any tampering through her psychic connection. Does this mean that she would detect at the beginning or end of a disable check? I'm assuming towards the end because otherwise she'll just detonate the thing.

Archaeologist bards, rogues with the fast disable rogue talent, and the like might be able to knock out a pillar before Loaralis can finish detonating them. Also, so long as she still assumes that she can win the encounter, she might rather blow up a column near lots of targets than blow up a column that is distracting a combatant.

Quote:

Sneaky edit! - Loaralis does not qualify for Deadly Stroke in either subtier due to lacking Greater Weapon Focus. Ignore the prerequisite and treat her Bite as qualifying?

Yep, that's something that's not quite right with the base blue dragon stat block. as we discussed the inconsistency, Thursty and I decided to treat blue dragons as an exception for the normal prerequisites to avoid monkeying with the base dragon stat block too much.

[Liam]

Probably a stupid question.

Spoiler:

On Plane Shift
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a forked metal rod attuned to the plane of travel)

Is this attuned forked metal rod assumed to be "standard kit" for the
caster? This has been a question that has bugged me for a while.

I figured I would ask that since it may be important.

[Thurston Hillman]

Liam wrote:

Probably a stupid question.

** spoiler omitted **

Some scenario-specific thoughts...

Spoiler:

I would use the planar thinning effect to bypass this requirement for the specific area in the scenario.

As for a general practice, in PFS, I'd probably waive it. In a home game, it makes for interesting storytelling.

[Ragoz]

I think it has been said before NPCs generally are considered to have spell component pouches, focuses, arrows etc even if it isn't listed as equipment in their stat blocks.

[Liam]

Ragoz wrote:

I think it has been said before NPCs generally are considered to have spell component pouches, focuses, arrows etc even if it isn't listed as equipment in their stat blocks.

I'm not discussing NPCs

[Ragoz]

I must not have clearly understood what you meant then. Hopefully Thurston did.

If it helps at all since the focus has no cost it means it is included in any spell component pouch which means every tuning fork for each plane can be found there.

[John Compton]

Thurston Hillman wrote:

Liam wrote:

Probably a stupid question.

** spoiler omitted **

Some scenario-specific thoughts...

** spoiler omitted **

To build off of what Thursty noted, the zone of astral thinning should apply to the PCs as well, transporting them to the corresponding specific spot much as the dimensional shamblers did. If the PCs use plane shift, they should be able to reach either encounter area without any chance of being shunted miles and miles away.

[Iammars]

Two quick other questions about the first encounter:
SAlly and SWeapon on Imlathre - intentional even though he should use WIS instead of CHA?
Any particular reason why he's not using his Cloak of Darkness? (+10 vs. +7/+8)
Init on Advanced Dimensional Shamblers should be +9?

[bugleyman]

Just re-reading this prepping for tomorrow, and noticed that the subtier 12-13 statblock for Loaralis give her 2 bites, while the subtier 14-15 statblock does not. Is that correct/intentional?

[Skredli Oxbreaker]

The caster levels on first and second encounters are wrong on high tier

[Serisan]

@bugleyman: should be 2 bites in high tier, the Haste was not factored in.

I spent something like 8 hours preparing this scenario. Unfortunately, wizards. As such, I don't feel like the scenario was fully played such that I can render a fair judgment. I had 2 wizards at the table with identical spells prepped - at least, identical for the ones that mattered.

Am I targeted? I break line of effect with Emergency Force Sphere.
Do you exist during my turn? Icy Prison.

RP sections were well received. Even with ROFLSTOMP combats, the scenario took approximately 6 hours, but this was as much a function of table talk as anything else. The single longest scene was the assignment of pathfinder teams.

Combat 1:

3 rounds of Dimensional Shamblers wishing they could hold on to anything long enough to get another standard action. There was a sap master rogue that could knock out 2 per round with full attacks and, due to half the party flying, half the shamblers were very near to him. Imlathre shows up, attempts to Persistent Feeblemind a caster, gets EMS blocked and Icy Prison'd to death.

Pathfinder teams:

Tried to play up Janira and the Boartusks for players who were familiar. The Boartusks were the fun ones here. ("So, return the people to their homes, preferably in 2 or fewer pieces.") One player intuited literally every mechanic associated with this section and ran the table for it. All of the groups had +12 before the True To The Mission boon.

Combat 2:

The players explicitly do not stealth until they notice the sound of spellcasting from the chamber. Full suite up, the sap master tries to sneak in, gets stopped by Repulsion, and hucks a sling bullet for 60-some damage. Kaarim, knowing that a second hit like that would be death for him, uses wall of stone to close off the entrance and warns Saabira. The party inquisitor is Telekinetic Charge'd into melee with Kaarim. Because it's hard mode, they both full round the inquisitor and successfully stagger her. Had there not been a Jingasa, I might have killed her.

This is the most effective thing I do all session.

Party finally filters in, Icy Prison on Kaarim, and Saabira uses a full round to break the ice, followed by Kaarim using Dimensional Hop -> Dim Door to go heal. Note that, again, hard mode is the only reason that the NPCs got to act here. NPCs get out of the healing locker and try to do things. Prismatic Spray on Kaarim for the mock cloudkill, he dies. Saabira desperately wishes she could do more things, but had followed tactics and dropped her bardiche to a failed trip attempt. She grabs it and dim doors to safety as she is all Wishcrafted up. Other wizard comes over and Shadow Enchantment dominates her. Saabira never got to do any of the wishcraft fun stuff because she required a nat 20 to succeed on that save. The remainder of her life is spent providing the PCs info on Loaralis.

Combat 3:

Nobody sees Loaralis due to angles. She comes up, hits on the Deadly Stroke, and fails to grapple the inquisitor due to Freedom of Movement. Blow up pillar. Icy Prison. 3 rounds later, I get a nat 20 for the required DC 28 Strength check to pretend to be relevant, detonate pillar 2, and burrow away. Next round, burrow up away from the party, detonate pillar 3, and then find myself in another Icy Prison. Party easily resolves everything with the wizards both readying to murder Loaralis. She eventually got out, but had 40 HP left and both wizards had damage spells ready with successful SR checks.

As I mentioned, the party was simply too strong here for the combats provided, which are likely sufficiently challenging for less-optimized parties. There was a paladin and a cavalier who effectively did nothing of import because of the two wizards. With DCs encroaching on 30, I simply had nothing I could do.

Leadership checks:

They used their rerolls here and maxed out resounding successes. The buried Axe Fixer was rescued, the dead one raised, and all was happy with the world. The players noted the hypocrisy of being expected to raise the pathfinder when no other VC would.

[Serisan]

Small piece of feedback for future pieces of the arc and future Seeker-tier content: Have an enemy prebuff Spell Turning. Just one enemy.

[John Compton]

I've been there, Serisan. As a player, I want to enjoy emergency force shield (I have no particular attraction to icy prison, having used it only a bit during Kingmaker). I am also soured to its impact by several high-level games in which 1–2 arcane spellcasters cast it over and over again, negating basically every threat. At this point even my home game gnome abjurer (who goes abjuration whole-hog) hesitates to learn it because it's just so potent.

Serisan wrote:

Small piece of feedback for future pieces of the arc and future Seeker-tier content: Have an enemy prebuff Spell Turning. Just one enemy.

It would be my grim pleasure.

[Disk Elemental]

John Compton wrote:

I've been there, Serisan. As a player, I want to enjoy emergency force shield. I am also soured to its impact by several high-level games in which 1–2 arcane spellcasters cast it over and over again, negating basically every threat. At this point even my home game gnome abjurer (who goes abjuration whole-hog) hesitates to learn it because it's just so potent.

Maybe it's time to consider banning it in PFS?

[Serisan]

I strongly dislike that EFS can completely allow you to ignore your deficiencies. I'd love to see an enemy use it once or twice, as well.

[Iammars]

Emergency Force Sphere needs to die a horrible death. It completely dominates every high level game I've seen played in the past couple years. Chelish mining wizards were never so broken.

[John Compton]

Serisan wrote:

I strongly dislike that EFS can completely allow you to ignore your deficiencies. I'd love to see an enemy use it once or twice, as well.

Perhaps it's a conversation to take to a different thread.

Enemies with emergency force sphere:

Unfortunately, the action economy is far in favor of the PCs on that front—even were we to reprint the spell in a sidebar (it's in a softcover book, after all). The creature is then inside the sphere until it teleports out (usually a standard action) or dismisses the spell (a standard action). At that point, the enemy's no longer benefiting from the spell, and the PCs are wont to grind the villain into lunchmeat. If a PC uses the spell, it negates the major enemy's entire turn, still leaving the PC's 3–5 allies to continue the assault.

I've found PCs often get around this limitation further by using the conjuration the conjuration (teleportation) subschool's shift ability to pop out as a swift action, though that still has to wait a round thanks to not having a swift action the round after using an immediate action. Nonetheless, it further enhances the spell's effectiveness. Thanks to Occult Adventures, we now have several more immediate action defense benchmarks against which to compare emergency force sphere, and nothing can scale so effectively as a sphere that few enemies in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild can overcome.

[Disk Elemental]

EFS discussion thread.

[TriOmegaZero]

Explosive pillars are no match for a winter witch and life oracle tandem dispelling. :)

Overall great scenario. Very much enjoyed the interactions and puzzling out what was going on. Would have loved to see the Astral plane but after King Xeros my oracle was not letting anyone get grapple-shifted. :)

Mostly it was the archer machine gunning everything down. Kudos for fickle winds being in play, but dispel magic ruined that plan once again.

[Liam]

I liked the scenario, the first ATL crew had fun.

Here's my summary

Spoiler:

14-15 hard mode - party was 13-14.

Fight 1 - grappling may have not been the best choice, and the "Prophet"
ended up having to come across. I'm usually against custom railway mechanics, but this one could have used it. Most times that 2nd map isn't going to get used in the age of the "freedom of movement talisman."

Teams - this worked well and the players got into the "doing it better than Vampire Lord Drendle" vibe

Fight 2 - Repulsion and blade barrier are nice, but the save DCs were too low to make it a real threat. This was more of a spell sponge to soak up dispels before the last fight. The hard mode mechanic caused some consternation and confusion.

Fight 3 - the pillar traps kept the winds alive long enough to be useful, and this was a moderate challenge. I nearly killed 2 of the party, but they had a good healer. I didn't have time to go through and verify the DCs on the mesmer spells, but that part was interesting, but maybe having it be an old or Very Old instead of a mature dragon would have been a better threat for high tier. And a lower caster level, of course if that was used.

Overall on save DCs in higher tier games I feel that I am basically waiting for the PCs to roll 1's. I'm not sure if save based threats
are the best thing at this tier. Thankfully there wasn't a musket master in the last fight.

We had a a lot of fun playing it, and I had fun running it.

[TriOmegaZero]

Are items granted to the subordinate teams returned to PCs at the end of the scenario? My oracle intended to loan the Kernaug Group her Scholar's Ring so they could use the Legend Lore ability, and expected it back. The potion of tongues was less of a concern, but I wanted to check if I should mark both of them off.

[bugleyman]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Are items granted to the subordinate teams returned to PCs at the end of the scenario? My oracle intended to loan the Kernaug Group her Scholar's Ring so they could use the Legend Lore ability, and expected it back. The potion of tongues was less of a concern, but I wanted to check if I should mark both of them off.

The scenario doesn't specify, so I would think it would depend upon what was communicated to the team when you provided the item. If you expected it back, you got it back. However, in that case, I'd say the amount of aid that counts for is reduced -- this this case, I'd count it as the cost of having a Legend Lore spell cast for you, which would not have been sufficient to earn you the bonus (which in turn would have resulted in the group not getting the 2nd prestige).

However, I believe the fault was mine in not being 100% clear about the status of the ring, and the value of the ring is far in excess of the amount of aid required to earn the bonus.

I suggest the following: You needed to provide 2,500 gold to get the full bonus; How about you keep your ring, but consider the potion consumed and add and expenditure of (2,500 gold - the value of the potion) on your chronicle? That way, you earned the bonus (and therefore the 2nd prestige), but you aren't unfairly penalized for the lack of clarity on your GM's part. :-)

[TriOmegaZero]

Meh, I'll just mark the ring off. It doesn't see much use anymore.

[bugleyman]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Meh, I'll just mark the ring off. It doesn't see much use anymore.

If you prefer, though as the GM I'd be satisfied with the lesser expenditure. Apologies for the lack of clarity at the time the scenario was run.

[TriOmegaZero]

I was more miffed that I missed the option to raise the dead Pathfinder.

[John Compton]

The intention is that items given to the subordinates disappear into their greedy hands and are never seen again. Earning the bonus requires a financial expenditure, not a loan. Were I running the same group through the whole series, I might credit them with that group for future sessions if they "overspent."

[TOZ]

Yeah, but I thought the item just showed up on their chronicle for purchase access. :P

[Liam]

John Compton wrote:

The intention is that items given to the subordinates disappear into their greedy hands and are never seen again. Earning the bonus requires a financial expenditure, not a loan. Were I running the same group through the whole series, I might credit them with that group for future sessions if they "overspent."

Mine overspent, and that was what I was planning on doing - I just haven't told them yet.

[bugleyman]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

I was more miffed that I missed the option to raise the dead Pathfinder.

I certainly would have allowed you to pursue that option had you brought it up; however, in hindsight, perhaps I should have explicitly asked if you wanted to do so.

Seems I made a bit of a mess of things. :-(