Torbyne |
4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Since Improved Familiar was first published there have been many, many ways for characters to gain access to Familiars without actually being an arcane spellcaster. Most of those abilities state something to the effect of you treat your levels in Class X as wizard levels (or wizard level -Y) for purposes of this ability.
Does counting as an Arcance Spellcaster for purposes of a Familiar granting ability extend to allowing you to count as an Arcane Spellcaster for purposes of Familiar focused feats, ie Improved Familiar?
CBDunkerson |
The Improved Familiar feat doesn't actually require you to be an Arcane Spellcaster. Rather it has level/alignment restrictions and 'the ability to acquire a new familiar'... which is usually inherent in having a familiar.
Most other familiar feats are similar. Offhand, I can't think of any which are restricted to specific classes / types.
Torbyne |
The Improved Familiar feat doesn't actually require you to be an Arcane Spellcaster. Rather it has level/alignment restrictions and 'the ability to acquire a new familiar'... which is usually inherent in having a familiar.
Most other familiar feats are similar. Offhand, I can't think of any which are restricted to specific classes / types.
I suppose what throws me off is the Arcane Spellcaster level requirement for each Improved Familiar. I was asking for advice on an Eldritch Guardian Fighter in another thread and someone point out that i wouldnt qualify for a Cassissian Angel since i didnt have 7 levels of arcane casting. The Eldritch Guardian archetype specifically states, "At 1st level, an eldritch guardian gains a familiar, treating his fighter level as his effective wizard level for the purpose of this ability." which is the point of confusion for qualifying for feats as that is not part of the familiar ability but checks against it for qualification.
Chess Pwn |
There are some that say if you have a familiar then use your "effective wizard level" that you use for your familiar to qualify for the requirements of this feat. These people refer more to RAI
On the other hand the more RAW group says you can't benefit from the feat cause you don't qualify since you don't have arcane casting levels. Especially cause your wizard levels are just for calculating your familiar's abilities and not for feats.
Torbyne |
There are some that say if you have a familiar then use your "effective wizard level" that you use for your familiar to qualify for the requirements of this feat. These people refer more to RAI
On the other hand the more RAW group says you can't benefit from the feat cause you don't qualify since you don't have arcane casting levels. Especially cause your wizard levels are just for calculating your familiar's abilities and not for feats.
So the feat itself does not require any arcane spellcaster level, its the familiars themselves that do.
In my original understanding of Eldritch Guardian it would work as RAW as you counted as a wizard of equal level when choosing your familiar, that is you must count as a wizard to select a familiar in the first place rather than getting a familiar and then counting as a wizard after the fact. Based on that, at level 7, an Eldritch Guardian could select Imrpoved Familiar as their level 7 feat and look over the familiar options on the expanded table. The Cassisian needs you to be a level 7 arcane caster which your familiar ability lets you count as for purposes of your familiar.
Its a sort of chicken and the egg arguement maybe? Are you a wizard before or after you have the familiar?
Chess Pwn |
There are plenty of people on both sides. There's no further clarification on the matter. If home game ask GM. If PFS, either assume no or ask everyone that GMs what they think and if they all say yes then go ahead.
Improved Familiar
Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).
Arcane Spellcaster Level
Fighter
At 1st level, an eldritch guardian gains a familiar, treating his fighter level as his effective wizard level for the purpose of this ability.
So you have an effective wizard level for your familiar. You don't have any effective wizard levels for feats. Also effective wizard levels aren't effective Arcane Spellcaster Levels.
Markov Spiked Chain |
This is one of those perennial questions that would be so simple for the design team to resolve.
That table is a cut and paste from the 3.0 SRD. I think "Effective Wizard Level" is closest in the original context, but without clarification, Shaman/Eldritch Guardian/Eldritch Heritage can't get Improved Familiars. But my Bloodrager 1/Skald 10 with an effective wizard level of 1 can, because Skald is an Arcane Spellcaster. :(
graystone |
This is one of those perennial questions that would be so simple for the design team to resolve.
That table is a cut and paste from the 3.0 SRD. I think "Effective Wizard Level" is closest in the original context, but without clarification, Shaman/Eldritch Guardian/Eldritch Heritage can't get Improved Familiars. But my Bloodrager 1/Skald 10 with an effective wizard level of 1 can, because Skald is an Arcane Spellcaster. :(
There is an even more interesting case. An alchemist is normally neither an arcane or diving caster. Now, have the alchemist take the Spell Knowledge and now their ability to cast a single arcane spell now makes them an arcane caster and now they can take improved familiar for their Tumor Familiar...
Fuzzy-Wuzzy |
This is one of those perennial questions that would be so simple for the design team to resolve.
It's especially annoying because this one doesn't even need a FAQ, just a very short erratum: Change "arcane spellcaster level" to "effective wizard level." Poof, problem solved.
I suppose the fact that they haven't done that may indicate that some of the designers actually want to restrict the feat to wizards/sorcerers/etc.