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The incorporeal entry says:"It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy)."
So, can a dragon, who has DR damage an incorporeal creature with its natural weapons?
The dragon entry only says, its natural weapons count as magical for the purpose of overcoming DR.
But, for example, a shadow doesn't have DR...
And how about the Dragon's Breath Weapon?
The interaction with DR but not incorporeal creatures is definitely odd and seems like a reasonable thing to houserule. Alternatively, the spell "Magic Fang" can work as a quick fix.
If I recall correctly, a Dragon's breath weapon is a Supernatural ability and would deal half damage.
Ok, in the bestiary they put two things together that the shouldn't have. That dragons have a DR rating, and that their natural weapons are considered magic are not related to each other. Gargoyles, as an example, have a DR but their natural weapons are not considered magic.
Incorrect. A dragons natural attacks counting as magical is because of its DR/Magic. Gargoyle natural attacks are also considered magic for the purpose of overcoming DR.
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
So a creature with DR/Magic has natural attacks that count as magical for the purposes of damage reduction.
Not with their natural attacks, no. The Breath Weapon does fine though and many of them also have spell-like abilities that they can use against incorporeal creatures.
So, the Dragon can't damage the incorporeal creature than?!
Not with its claws and other natural attacks. But the Breath weapon works since its a supernatural ability. And dragons often have additional ways to deal damage. Many knows spells, some have auras dealing various kinds of elemental damage. Those things still work.
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Actually it was such a FAQ, they did answer this one.
If you bypass DR/magic, then you can affect incorporeals was the response. So dragons, claw away.
Remember, folks, those weapons with Ghost Touch can crit an incorporeal creature. Nothing else doing half/quarter with save damage can.
Do you have a citation for that second sentence?
Do you have a citation for that second sentence?
I can cite that one for him. From Incorporeal Subtype:
"Incorporeal Subtype
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality."
(Italics mine)
Do you have a citation for that second sentence?I can cite that one for him. From Incorporeal Subtype:
"Incorporeal Subtype
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality."
(Italics mine)
Ah, they cleverly stuck that into the incorporeal subtype instead of the incorporeal quality. Thanks.
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Ah, they cleverly stuck that into the incorporeal subtype instead of the incorporeal quality. Thanks.Do you have a citation for that second sentence?I can cite that one for him. From Incorporeal Subtype:
"Incorporeal Subtype
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality."
(Italics mine)
Note that there is a curious cavat with that: if you are incorporeal but not get the incorporeal subtype (let's say you become incorporeal thanks to a spell or ability) you don't get the immunity to criticals and precision damage. You only get the half damage.
The Incorporeal condition say:
Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
If you get the subtype you get those:
Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.