Martial Mobility Feats


Homebrew and House Rules


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I have seen many threads about players wanting to have more option in combat for martial-based characters. In some of these threads, some people suggest a martial character being able to move around the battlefield better, especially during Full-Attacks.

Here is my own little set of house rule feats and a new skill I created with that in mind.

I by no means claim this to be perfect, but I think it is a pretty good start, so questions, comments, and constructive criticism are appreciated.

Thank You

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Athletics – Whenever a STR check is required for moving or lift heavy objects, or any other such feats of strength, you use Athletics. Add your STR modifier to this roll. Classes with this skill as a class skill are: Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Cavalier, Vigilante, Antipaladin, Bloodrager, Brawler, Hunter, Slayer, and Warpriest.

Mobile Combatant – You can move a base extra 5ft during a full-attack action. If you have 5 ranks in the Athletics skill, you can move a bonus extra 5ft. You cannot gain extra movement from Athletics while in heavy armor. This feat requires a BAB +6 as a prerequisite.

Mobile Warrior – You can move a base extra 5ft during a full-attack action. This stacks with the movement gained from Mobile Combatant for a maximum base of 10ft. If you have 10 ranks in the Athletics skill, you can move bonus extra 5ft. This bonus movement also stacks with the bonus movement gained from Mobile Combatant. You can only use half of this bonus movement in heavy armor. The total movement gained cannot exceed your base movement. This feat requires Mobile Combatant, DEX 15, and BAB +11 as prerequisites.

Mobile Warrior, Greater – You can move an base extra 5ft during a full-attack action. This movement stacks with the movement gained from both Mobile Combatant and Mobile Warrior for a maximum base of 15ft. For every 5 ranks you have above 10 in the Athletics skill, you can move a bonus extra 5ft. This bonus also stacks with the movement gained from both Mobile Combatant and Mobile Warrior. You can use all the bonus movement gained regardless of the type of armor you wear. This movement cannot exceed you base movement. This feat requires Mobile Combatant, Mobile Warrior, DEX 17, and BAB +16 as prerequisites.

Grand Lodge

Those are pretty nice but I still feel that being in Heavy Armor is being penalized to much.

I agree that heavy Armor is something that encumbers you but eventually you become so proficient with it that its over all penalties should be lessened considerably.

Even if Heavy Armor Proficiency read:

Heavy Armor Prof:

Benefit: You can wear heavy armor without en curing extra penalties to Armor Check based skills.
At BAB +6 you your over all ACP drops by 1, you gain +5 ft movement
At BAB +11 your ACP drops by 1 you gain +5ft movement
At BAB +16 your ACP drops by +1 you can add either your Dex or Str mod to your Max Dex mod on armor (which ever is higher)


Are you talking about heavy armor with my feats or in general?

If it's just my feats, there is improvement with movement in heavy armor as you proceed through the tree.

If you mean in general, I know that fighters are the only class that get better perks out of their armor (ergo, reduce ACP and increased speed).

That being said, I can agree with that logic. Real world armor was actually fairly easy to move in.

Try this out.

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Armor Aptitude – You gain better mobility while wearing armor you are proficient in. The Armor Check Penalty for all armor (not shields) is reduced by 1 (minimum 0) and your speed is increased by 5ft in medium and heavy armor. This cannot increase your speed above your base speed. Unlike other combat feats, Fighters cannot select this feat. This feat requires BAB +6 and Light Armor Proficiency as a prerequisite.

Armor Aptitude, Greater – You gain better mobility while wearing medium and heavy armor, if you are proficient. At BAB +11 and 5 ranks in the Athletics skill, the Armor Check Penalty for medium and heavy armor is reduced by 1 and your speed is increased by 5ft. This cannot increase your speed above your base speed. At BAB +16 and 10 ranks in the Athletics skill, the Armor Check Penalty for heavy armor is reduced by 1 and the Max DEX Bonus for heavy armor is increased by 2. This feat requires BAB +11, 5 ranks in the Athletics skill, Armor Aptitude, and Medium Armor Proficiency as prerequisites.

Shield Aptitude – You gain better control of shields you are proficient in. At BAB +6, the armor check penalty for shields is reduced by -1 and the Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by 5%. At BAB +11 and 10 ranks in the Athletics skill, the armor check penalty tower shields is reduced by 5 (for a total of -4) and the Arcane Spell Failure for tower shields is reduced 20% (for a total of 25%). This feat requires BAB +6 and Shield Proficiency as prerequisites.

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The first two feats are basically what you said, just cleaned up a little, and with some perks for other types of armor added.

The last one is just a bonus.

Grand Lodge

I guess what I was saying is that there are already to many feats that either do nothing, to little or do something very similar to other ones.

Maybe combining feats to make them more potent and have them do multiple things would be better.

Like combining Weapon Focus and Weapon expertise into one that scales and gives more options the higher level you are.


I am actually working on something like what you're talking about right now.

At some point I'll probably create another thread with these feats and some re-worked feats I have.

For the heck of it, here's a little preview with one of the biggest offenders.

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Dodge – you gain a +1 base dodge bonus to AC, +1 for every 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill. At 10th level, the base dodge bonus increases to +2. If wearing armor heavier than light armor, the dodge bonus gained from this feat equal to the total dodge bonus - the armor’s skill check penalty +1 (minimum +0). The dodge bonus granted by your Acrobatics skill is limited to maximum equal to your DEX modifier.

Grand Lodge

So your doing away with Acrobatics skill for certain classes and replacing it with Athletics? -or- are you adding another skill to these certain classes?

Your Dodge exampled doesn't reflect this but I can see why.


Heavy Armor gives you the benifit of a massive bonus to AC. You need to be penalized for this. If you're not giving anything up and gaining a +9 to your AC, what are you doing to the rest of your party? Now the Rogue who has to wear light armor is losing out on half her advantadge, while the Monk really doesn't have a leg up save for its speed? Seems a bit tunnel vision

Grand Lodge

But that is all it gives a bonus to Regular and FF AC. Why shouldn't a feat do more?

How is the Rogue losing out? The Chain shirt gives +4 and +4 Max dex and that is normal not MW or Enchanted. A Rogue with 16 Dex has a 17AC at first level, can move 30 ft a round.

A fighter with with 12 Dex and wearing Scale mail(+5AC) has 16 AC at first level and moves 20 ft a round.

A Monk with 14 Dex and 16 Wis with no Armor has a 15AC at first level and moves 30ft a round.

Edit: Studded leather would be more cost effective for the rogue, that is +3 AC from the armor and +3 from dex is 16 same as the fighter at first level.

This is all no shields involved.


Fokeno wrote:
Heavy Armor gives you the benifit of a massive bonus to AC. You need to be penalized for this. If you're not giving anything up and gaining a +9 to your AC, what are you doing to the rest of your party? Now the Rogue who has to wear light armor is losing out on half her advantadge, while the Monk really doesn't have a leg up save for its speed? Seems a bit tunnel vision

-First: Consider that some classes, like Monk and Barbarian, get a large AC boost or DR as they level up with no penalties.

-Second: The Fighter loses some of the penalties of armor as he levels up, namely the speed reduction and check penalty.

Raltus wrote:
But that is all it gives a bonus to Regular and FF AC. Why shouldn't a feat do more?

I assume that bit is for me.

Maybe this will help a little. Just a thought.

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Dodge: Modified – you gain a +1 base dodge bonus to AC and Touch AC, +1 bonus dodge to AC for every 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill. At 10th level, the base dodge bonus to AC and Touch AC increases to +2. If wearing armor heavier than light armor, the dodge bonus gained from this feat equal to the total dodge bonus - the armor’s skill check penalty +1 (minimum +0). The dodge bonus granted by your Acrobatics skill is limited to maximum equal to your DEX modifier.

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That include a small Touch AC bonus. Or...

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Untouchable - You gain a +1 bonus to Touch AC. This bonus increase +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level. If you are wearing medium or heavy armor, this bonus is reduced by 1 (minimum +1). If you have Evasion class feature, you increase this bonus by +1. If you have Improved Evasion you increase this bonus by +2. This feat requires BAB +1, and either Dodge or Uncanny Dodge feature as prerequisites.

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Something separate with a couple ways to unlock it.

Also, Athletics is not replacing Acrobatics. It's a new skill usable by all classes. I made it because some of the house ruled modified feats I made are affected by your ranks in Acrobatics and mechanically I didn't want to much being affected by one skill.

Any other questions or concerns?

Grand Lodge

I do enjoy what you are doing, my only thoughts is that a fighter who is going to say go sword and board doesn't gain any major feats from having a high acrobatics and your either Dodge:modified or Untouchable only because they won't invest that much into their dex skill.

That is what I find funny about the heavier armors is their Max Dex increases with each enhancement mod but is kinda a waste if the fighters dex never goes above a 12 naturally and gets up to maybe an 18 with a belt of Physical Perfection +6


I get what you're saying. It had slipped my mind that DEX is usually low for fighters.

Here's an idea.

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Fighter’s Instinct – Functions as Dodge, but instead of Acrobatics, you use Athletics, and instead of DEX, you use STR. Only Fighters may select this feat.

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And a slight edit here.

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Untouchable: Modified – You gain a +1 bonus to Touch AC. This bonus increase +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level. If you are wearing medium or heavy armor, this bonus is reduced by 1 (minimum +1). If you have Evasion class feature, you increase this bonus by +1. If you have Improved Evasion you increase this bonus by +2. This feat requires BAB +1, and either Dodge, Fighter’s Instinct, or Uncanny Dodge feature as prerequisites.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Eh. I just used two Fighter Techniques:

Dodge: YOu gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC. If you have Armor Training, YOur Armor Training bonus to dex limit is instead added to your dodge bonus to AC.

Mobility: You gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC when moving. This bonus is increased by your Armor Training bonus, and is considered a fast movement bonus.

Fleet: You gain +5' movement. This is multiplied by your Armor Training bonus. You may also move this distance during a full attack sequence (before, during or after).

There, quick, easy movement options for a fighter. Not so concerned about other classes, here.

==Aelryinth


--To Aelryinth ::

That is a perfectly valid solution.

While my feats did have the Fighter primarily in mind, they also allowed other classes to gain these bonuses, as quite a few feats in general a pretty lack-luster at higher levels, ergo Dodge.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Well sure.

But the barb has a rage power to get him nat ac, and another to get him dodge bonuses. Why would he ever take dodge when he can get a scaling dodge bonus, instead?

paladin and ranger have spells. One gets cha to deflection when smiting, the other can cast Barkskin.

Barbs get pounce and fast move. Paladins can smite with bows and rangers get FE, make the enemy come to them and eat their full attack.

I'm not worried about non-fighters. At all.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

I do like your Feats DrNegative, I will be eagerly watching this thread hoping to put in some useful input.

The Max Dex on armor always seemed odd to be increased when very few classes would benefit from having higher than maybe a +3 in total.

The fighter should have a class feature that supplements something in to that space if they are Str focuses or just in general.

Most feats lose their usefulness at higher levels because they don't scale.

Does anyone know if there is a reason for them to not scale?


--To Aelryinth:

Okay. Let's go in a bit of a new direction then.

Ignoring all the feats I have made before in this thread, try these out.

This list will also include some other feats I've made and tweaked.

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New Skill: Athletics – Whenever a STR check is required for moving or lift heavy objects, or any other such feats of strength, you use Athletics. Add your STR modifier to this roll. Classes with this skill as a class skill are: Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Cavalier, Vigilante, Antipaladin, Bloodrager, Brawler, Hunter, Slayer, and Warpriest.

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Just for clarity, Athletics is in addition to Acrobatics, not replacing it.

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Nimble Moves (Dr’s Version) – With DEX 13, you may move 5 ft. through difficult terrain per round as though it was normal terrain. At 5th level, if you have DEX 15, this movement increases by 5 ft. At 10th level, this movement increases by 5 ft. regardless of your DEX. Finally, at 15th level, if you have DEX 17, this movement increase by 5 ft. to a maximum of 20 ft. This change removes the Acrobatic Steps feat.

Two Weapon Fighting (Dr’s Version) – With a DEX 15, you reduce the penalties for fighting with two weapons by 2 for your primary hand and by 6 for your off-hand weapon. Other penalties for two weapon fighting based on the weapons wielded still apply. With a DEX 17 and a BAB of +6, you may make an additional attack with your off-hand weapon. Finally, with a DEX 19 and a BAB of +11, you may make a third attack with your off-hand weapon.

Point Blank Shot (Dr's Version) – works as Point Blank Shot (Paizo Version), but at 5th, 10th, 15, and 20th level, this bonus increases by +1. At 11th level, You gain half of this bonus (rounded down) for attacks against enemies beyond 30ft, but within your weapon’s first range increment.

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These are not fighter specific, just some feats that I thought could use a little sprucing up.

Now the long list.

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Untouchable – You gain a +1 bonus to Touch AC. If you have Evasion class feature, you increase this bonus by +1. If you have Improved Evasion you increase this bonus by +2. This feat requires BAB +1, and either Dodge (either version) or Uncanny Dodge feature as prerequisites.

Mobile Combatant – You can move an extra 5ft during a full-attack action. You cannot use extra movement while in heavy armor or encumbered. This extra movement provokes attacks of opportunity. This feat requires a BAB +6 and 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill as prerequisites.

Armor Aptitude – You gain better mobility while wearing armor you are proficient in. The Armor Check Penalty for all armor (not shields) is reduced by 1 (minimum 0) and your speed is increased by 5ft in medium and heavy armor. This cannot increase your speed above your base speed. Unlike other combat feats, Fighters cannot select or use this feat. This feat requires BAB +6 and Light Armor Proficiency as a prerequisite.

Armor Aptitude, Greater – You gain better mobility while wearing medium and heavy armor, if you are proficient. At BAB +11 and 5 ranks in the Athletics skill, the Armor Check Penalty for medium and heavy armor is reduced by 1 and your speed is increased by 5ft. This cannot increase your speed above your base speed. At BAB +16 and 10 ranks in the Athletics skill, the Armor Check Penalty for heavy armor is reduced by 1 and the Max DEX Bonus for heavy armor is increased by 2. This feat requires BAB +11, 5 ranks in the Athletics skill, Armor Aptitude, and Medium Armor Proficiency as prerequisites.

Shield Aptitude – You gain better control of shields you are proficient in. At BAB +6, the armor check penalty for shields is reduced by -1 and the Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by 5%. At BAB +11, 10 ranks in the Athletics skill, and if you are proficient with tower shields, the armor check penalty for tower shields is reduced by 5 (for a total of -4) and the Arcane Spell Failure for tower shields is reduced 20% (for a total of 25%). This feat requires BAB +6 and Shield Proficiency as prerequisites.

Improved Maneuvers – You select 3 combat maneuvers. You gain the Improved feats related to those maneuvers. You can select this feat multiple times, selecting 3 new maneuvers each time. You must possess the appropriate prerequisites for any maneuver selected.

Fighter’s Dodge – you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC plus your Armor Training bonus. The increase in the allowed max DEX bonus to armor is replaced by this dodge bonus. This feat requires DEX 11 as a prerequisite. This is a fighter’s bonus feat (only fighters may select it). This feat counts as Dodge (Paizo Version) and Dodge (Dr’s Version) for the purpose of prerequisites.

Fighter’s Mobility – You gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC versus attacks of opportunity plus you Armor Training bonus. This feat requires Fighter’s Dodge as a prerequisite. This feat counts as Mobility (Paizo Version) for the purpose of prerequisites.

Mobile Warrior – You gain a +5ft movement bonus for every +2 of Armor Training (minimum 0ft). This bonus movement is allowed even when slowed by your armor, but not when encumbered. During a Full-Attack action, you gain a +5ft movement bonus equal to your Armor Training bonus and is added to your 5-foot step. This movement can be used before, during, and after this action, split up as you see fit. The first 5ft movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity as normal, but each 5ft step afterward does, but with a +4 dodge bonus against them. This bonus decrease by 1 for every 5ft step afterwards. This feat requires DEX 13 and Armor Training 1 feature as prerequisites. This is a fighter’s bonus feat (only fighters may select it).

Dodge (Dr’s Version) – you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC, +1 bonus for every 5 ranks in the Acrobatics or Athletics skill (maximum +2 bonus), whichever is better. You gain only half the bonus from Acrobatics or Athletics (rounded down) in medium armor and no bonus in heavy armor. This feat requires DEX 13 as a prerequisite. This feat counts as Dodge (Paizo Version) for the purpose of prerequisites.

Dodge, Improved - you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC, +1 bonus for every 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill (only Acrobatic though) above 10 ranks (maximum +2 bonus). These bonuses stack with the bonuses gained from Dodge (Dr’s Version) for a total of +6 dodge bonus to AC. You gain all the bonus granted by the feats to AC and half the bonus to Touch AC in medium armor, and half to both AC and Touch AC in heavy armor. This feat requires Dodge (Dr’s Version), BAB +8, and DEX 17 as prerequisites.

Rouge Talent: Rogue Mobility – Works as Mobile Warrior, accept you gain a +5ft movement bonus when this talent is selected, and you gain bonus movement for every 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill. At 11th level, the +4 dodge bonus versus attacks of opportunity is not reduced due to extra movement.

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A little bit of your way, and a little bit of my way.

Fighters get some boosts they need, the other classes get little perks, and some all-around changes are made to a few feats.

Again, I don't claim these to be perfect, but I think they're pretty good.

Questions, comments, and constructive criticism is welcome.

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--To Raltus:

I would think the reason a lot of feats don't scale is probably due to the fact that Pathfinder is a modification of D&D 3.5.

Paizo wanted to keep the feel of the game similar to D&D, and so they just balanced things in a way that functioned most like the old game, and that include feats that mostly do just one thing.

But that's just my theory.

Grand Lodge

I love your Imp Maneuvers because it is simple and allows for some flexibility.

A fighter should get it 3 times over the course of their career, would play into their "battle field master" theme.


Exactly.

Also a little side note. My homebrewed fighters get 4 + INT skill ranks per level instead of 2 + INT skill ranks. So few ranks plus low INT kills a fighter skill-wise. I doubt anyone can argue with that. (Well they probably can, but just won't)

Grand Lodge

What about going 6 skills per lvl?

Someone in another thread said it is between the Barb (4) and Rogue (8) which kinda makes sense.

I also think the Rogue should get 10 skills per level but that is just me.


To each, their own.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

6 skills would put a fighter equal with a ranger, who gets spellcasting.

There's no way it would overpower the fighter. My version of the fighter gets +1 skill every time bravery goes up, which they get to pick and becomes a class skill....so, modular, self-choosing, versatile, exactly like the fighter has, and they end up with 7/level, more then a ranger.

As for your feats: Ugh.
Untouchable - this is so weak I don't know why you made it a feat. It's only useful against touch attacks, which are, what, 10% of normal attacks, or less?
There's feats that allow your shield to apply against touch attacks, and another allowing the magic bonus, and another allowing 1/2 your armor bonus, that I've seen. All of them are better then this feat.

Mobile Combatant - useless to a fighter in heavy armor even if he isn't slowed by it.

Armor Aptitude: Great, giving away fighter class features. I assume you have one feat granting Lay On Hands as a paladin of equal level, and another 2 feats granting 2 levels of spells and a level-3 caster level too, right? Just to keep things equal?

Improved Maneuvers - I personally use # of Maneuvers = to your Expertise bonus, and folded it into Expertise. Versatile, choice, scales, flexible. And rewards the INTELLIGENT melee combatant.

Fighter's Dodge: Shouldn't need a Dex req any more then a monk's scaling AC bonus does.

Mobile Warrior is too wordy, and the movement bonus takes too long to get. The barb gets fast move at level 1. The Ranger gets Longstrider at 4. The fighter gets +10' at level 16?!? Is there something wrong with the non-magic fighter ending up faster then either class at high level? The Olympian of combat? Who doesn't have a supernatural power source or nature magic to help him out? I thought it was bad enough making him delay to 8th, AND forcing him to spend a feat, just to get +10! He ends up at +20...so what? That's 5' faster then a barb or ranger who also spend the feat.

Rogue Mobility - just tie it to Trap Sense. Acrobatics is tied to fighting defensively/total defense already.

==Aelryinth


--To Aelryinth:

Let's go through this one thing at a time, shall we?

Aelryinth wrote:

6 skills would put a fighter equal with a ranger, who gets spellcasting.

There's no way it would overpower the fighter. My version of the fighter gets +1 skill every time bravery goes up, which they get to pick and becomes a class skill....so, modular, self-choosing, versatile, exactly like the fighter has, and they end up with 7/level, more then a ranger.

I never even suggested that was overpowered. 6 skill points is just fine with me and I'm sure many others.

Aelryinth wrote:

Untouchable - this is so weak I don't know why you made it a feat. It's only useful against touch attacks, which are, what, 10% of normal attacks, or less?

There's feats that allow your shield to apply against touch attacks, and another allowing the magic bonus, and another allowing 1/2 your armor bonus, that I've seen. All of them are better then this feat.

I know of the feat that adds the magic bonus from shields to AC, but I have not heard of the other 2. I would like to see them, if you can find them.

As for my feat specifically, I have several friends I play with who gladly take this feat in a heartbeat, mostly because of the types of enemies our GM throws at us, and our GM would likely use it because one of our players is a classic Power Gamer who likes to exploit these sort of things.

But, I'm a more than willing to fix it up a little, like this.

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Untouchable - You gain a +1 bonus to Touch AC. If you have Evasion class feature, you increase this bonus by +1. If you have Improved Evasion you increase this bonus by +2. If you have the Lightning Reflexes feat, you also gain +3 bonus to Reflex saves. This feat requires BAB +1, and either Dodge or Uncanny Dodge feature as prerequisites.

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I am pretty sure many fighters take Lightning Reflexes to compensate for enemy spell casters, so that's a nice little perk for them.

Aelryinth wrote:
Mobile Combatant - useless to a fighter in heavy armor even if he isn't slowed by it.

That feat was not really made with the fighter in mind.

Aelryinth wrote:
Armor Aptitude: Great, giving away fighter class features. I assume you have one feat granting Lay On Hands as a paladin of equal level, and another 2 feats granting 2 levels of spells and a level-3 caster level too, right? Just to keep things equal?

There's the Amateur Gunslinger feat which gives grit and a deed.

There's also the rogue talent which give the rogue bombs like an alchemist. Nothing to really get upset about.

BTW, that Lay On Hands feat... not a bad idea. I'll probably work on that later. ;)

Aelryinth wrote:
Improved Maneuvers - I personally use # of Maneuvers = to your Expertise bonus, and folded it into Expertise. Versatile, choice, scales, flexible. And rewards the INTELLIGENT melee combatant.

First, I'm sorry to say I don't know what the Expertise bonus is.

Second, more of a personal note, I don't like how you are insinuating that many people, including myself, are stupid. Most people just don't know these mechanics exist, and you can't fault them for not reading every piece of game material to find them.

Aelryinth wrote:
Fighter's Dodge: Shouldn't need a Dex req any more then a monk's scaling AC bonus does.

Point taken, but it's a DEX 11. I'm pretty sure most fighters can afford that regardless. If you don't like that prerequisite, by all means, ignore it.

Aelryinth wrote:
Mobile Warrior is too wordy, and the movement bonus takes too long to get. The barb gets fast move at level 1. The Ranger gets Longstrider at 4. The fighter gets +10' at level 16?!? Is there something wrong with the non-magic fighter ending up faster then either class at high level? The Olympian of combat? Who doesn't have a supernatural power source or nature magic to help him out? I thought it was bad enough making him delay to 8th, AND forcing him to spend a feat, just to get +10! He ends up at +20...so what? That's 5' faster then a barb or ranger who also spend the feat.

Leadership and Power Attack can be considered too wordy too, but I hear no complaints about those.

The point of the feat is not to give the fighter a large base movement speed like the barbarian, ranger, monk, or any others. The purpose is to give more freedom of movement with his 4 massive attacks. Full-Attack + 25ft movement. Combine that with Cleave and I see a long line of dead bodies in 6 seconds (1 round for those who didn't know).

Aelryinth wrote:
Rogue Mobility - just tie it to Trap Sense. Acrobatics is tied to fighting defensively/total defense already.

Not a bad idea, but since many rogue archetypes lose Trap Sense, I will write it like this.

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Rogue Talent: Rogue Mobility – Works as Mobile Warrior, accept you gain a +5ft movement bonus when this talent is selected, and you gain +5 bonus movement for every point in the Trap Sense feature (or Danger Sense feature for Unchained Rogue) or 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill, whichever is higher. At 11th level, the +5 dodge bonus versus attacks of opportunity is not reduced due to extra movement.

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There we go.

I'm aware I can't make everyone happy with my work, but I'm willing to try.

Any other questions?

Grand Lodge

In 2e was the fighter not the only class that was allowed 4 attacks a round? I didn't play 2e so just asking

So should the fighter not be the only class in PF to be able to make full movement and full attack?

Would make him a bit more interesting in combat.


I looked at 2e, fighters, rangers, and paladins get iterative attacks at the same rate, to a max of 2 attacks a round.

And Mobile Warrior is exactly for the purpose of extra movement during attacks for a fighter. It also doesn't hurt if a rogue gets a little extra spring in their steps.

Changing gears, I made a comment about Mobile Warrior being used in conjunction with Cleave, but that is mistaken as Cleave is a standard action. So I made these.

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Mobile Cleave – During a Full-Attack action, if you hit your primary target, you may make one free secondary attack against a target adjacent to the primary target that is within range using the same attack bonus as your current attack. You can only attack an individual target with a secondary attack once per round. You can make as many secondary attacks per round as your BAB allows per round. When you use this feat you take a -2 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn. This feat requires STR 13, Mobile Warrior, and Cleave as prerequisites.

Mobile Cleave, Greater – During a Full-Attack action, if you hit your primary target, you may make one free secondary attack against a target adjacent to the primary target that is within range using the same attack bonus as your current attack. If you hit your secondary target, you can continue making secondary attacks against any adjacent targets in range, using the same attack bonus as your primary attack, as long as you continue to hit. When you use this feat, you take a -3 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn. This feat requires STR 17, BAB +11, and Mobile Cleave as prerequisites.

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Also, with your idea about a fighter being the only class being able to take a full move and a full attack, I'm considering the idea that a fighter gets Mobile Warrior as a free bonus feat at 1st level, if you meat a couple prerequisites:

1. Fighter is your favored class.
2. You selected fighter at character level 1.
3. the fighter archetype you use must have at least Armor Training 1 Class Feature.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Grand Lodge

Mobile Cleave:are you allowing them to move? Instead of adjacent target maybe put within a 5ft step range? This will allow the fighter or who ever to move 5 feet and cleave someone else.

Mobile Cleave, Greater: This could allow them to make 4, 5 foot steps to cleave through a bunch of people. This wouldn't drop enemies like crazy but it would allow a fighter to wade past the front line if they had the room.


I like your thinking Green-skin man.

I'm currently working through the balancing in my head, but here's what I'm thinking. I'll keep Mobile Cleave the same, but add and change the following.

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Mobile Cleave, Improved – During a Full-Attack action, if you hit your primary target, you may make a free 5ft step (not consuming any movement gained from Mobile Warrior) using the same current dodge bonus gained from Mobile Warrior, and make one free secondary attack against a target that is within range using the same attack bonus as your current attack. You can only attack an individual target with a secondary attack once per round. You can make as many secondary attacks per round as your BAB allows per round. When you use this feat you take a -3 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn. You can choose use this feat or Mobile Cleave. This feat requires STR 15, BAB +6, and Mobile Cleave as prerequisites.

Mobile Cleave, Greater – During a Full-Attack action, if you hit your primary target, you may make one free 5ft step (not consuming any movement gained from Mobile Warrior) secondary attack against a target adjacent to the primary target that is within range using the same attack bonus as your current attack. If you hit your secondary target, you can continue making secondary attacks against any adjacent targets in range, using the same attack bonus as your primary attack, as long as you continue to hit. When you use this feat, you take a -4 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn. You can choose to use this feat, Improved Mobile Cleave, or Mobile Cleave. This feat requires STR 17, BAB +11, and [b]Improved Mobile Cleave[b] as prerequisites.

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I specified that if you have the Improved or Greater feats, you can choose which one you want to use, just to clear up any confusion if someone thinks that you can't use the previous version.

Grand Lodge

Now with your feats are you going to make them free as the person levels? SO you take Mobile warrior then at (insert levels needed here) you get imp. Mobile cleave then again later you get Greater Mobile cleave with having to invest more feats each time?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The Shield AC to Reflex and Touch AC is Shield Ward, which is a 3.5 feat from Lords of Madness, and probably the BEST shield feat ever made.

The armor bonus to Touch AC is, I think, a +1 magical ability from either the 3.5 Magical Items Compendium books, or it might actually be a Paizo book.

I tied Iron Will for Fighters to bravery...it increases by +1 per point of Bravery.
Lightning Reflexes is tied to Armor Training, and Great Fortitude to Weapon Training.

But I also gave my fighters a Training Feat every level so they could actually afford these extra kind of feats. Since, you know, they are spending 3 feats for what the Paladin gets more and better of with a level 2 class ability.

Your mobile cleave is effectively Whirlwind and Improved WHirlwind variant ... hit everything around you once/twice. Supreme Cleave from 3e let you take a 5' step between cleave strikes...but it only activated if you dropped the foe, not if you just hit them.

Giving away class features is very bad class design. The amateur gunslinger feat should basically just let someone use guns. Just because someone made up a feat doesn't make it good class design.

Fighters got 5/2 attacks with weapon specialization, and were the only core class that could specialize in 1 & 2e...although they later let rangers spec in the classic ranger weapons. Making attacks dependent on BAB was a major nerf to fighters, since # of attacks is a major class feature. 5e even brought it back by making their fighters grant the highest numbers of attacks once again.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Raltus wrote:
Now with your feats are you going to make them free as the person levels? SO you take Mobile warrior then at (insert levels needed here) you get imp. Mobile cleave then again later you get Greater Mobile cleave with having to invest more feats each time?

If it's an ability you want all your fighters to have, and no other class to have, it should just be a class ability you give to your fighters. No need to even write it up as a feat.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

Aelryinth wrote:
Raltus wrote:
Now with your feats are you going to make them free as the person levels? SO you take Mobile warrior then at (insert levels needed here) you get imp. Mobile cleave then again later you get Greater Mobile cleave with having to invest more feats each time?

If it's an ability you want all your fighters to have, and no other class to have, it should just be a class ability you give to your fighters. No need to even write it up as a feat.

==Aelryinth

Not what I was asking. Feats don't scale, that is a huge problem for most classes and it is kinda for fighters. Really feats should scale in the abilities over time. I am asking Dr.Negative if he is making his feats scale or not.


In response to 2 things. First.

Aelryinth wrote:
Giving away class features is very bad class design. The amateur gunslinger feat should basically just let someone use guns. Just because someone made up a feat doesn't make it good class design.

I don't think it's bad design if it's, of course, done right.

Amateur Gunslinger gives a little grit and 1 deed. That doesn't sound like a bad feat to me.

I will admit my Greater Armor Aptitude feat takes this concept too far, so I would scratch that, but plain Armor Aptitude seems to works fine, if I just remove the heavy armor speed increase.

Also, the Lay on Hands feat already exists. It's called Believer's Hands in the ACG

Second.

Aelryinth wrote:
Raltus wrote:
Now with your feats are you going to make them free as the person levels? SO you take Mobile warrior then at (insert levels needed here) you get imp. Mobile cleave then again later you get Greater Mobile cleave with having to invest more feats each time?
If it's an ability you want all your fighters to have, and no other class to have, it should just be a class ability you give to your fighters. No need to even write it up as a feat.

I'm now considering making the Mobile Warrior tree and Fighter's Dodge feats as class abilities, along with a boost to Bravery to make it function more like Divine Grace, which I'll would write up a little later, but could you guys help me out and see if these would break any of the fighter archetypes.

Because my goal is to also mark which archetypes would be allowed these abilities.

Your help is greatly appreciated.


I actually just wrote up a draft for my fighter fix.

Here it is.

What do you think?


getting a 'file not found' error from google drive.

Grand Lodge

Only thing I can see is that maybe the "Cleaves" are coming in a bit late, since a first level human fighter can take cleave at first level. Maybe drop them to 3rd to keep them relevant?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

DrNegative wrote:

In response to 2 things. First.

Aelryinth wrote:
Giving away class features is very bad class design. The amateur gunslinger feat should basically just let someone use guns. Just because someone made up a feat doesn't make it good class design.

I don't think it's bad design if it's, of course, done right.

Amateur Gunslinger gives a little grit and 1 deed. That doesn't sound like a bad feat to me.

I will admit my Greater Armor Aptitude feat takes this concept too far, so I would scratch that, but plain Armor Aptitude seems to works fine, if I just remove the heavy armor speed increase.

Also, the Lay on Hands feat already exists. It's called Believer's Hands in the ACG

Second.

So a feat that gives away a feat (Extra Deed) and some Grit and grants a weapon proficiency is good design?

Then making a feat that combines Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec is also a balanced feat, right? :P

I think there's already an Armor Specialization feat that does most of what you want with the Aptitude.

Believer's Hands first requires believer's boon, and is equal to a paladin of half your level, usable once a day. In other words, just about equal to Godless Healing, with a pre req and alignment restriction.
It's a typical 'I gain magic' feat...grants something that scales horribly and is usable once/day. Nowhere equal to actual LOH.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Two things;

Your Bravery rewrite is...not clear? I think you left out some words. All saves? All Will saves? Note that if you do All Will Saves, you may as well just give him a good will save.
I'm also not a fan of adding stat mods to things. I would personally just double the bonus against fear, or add their Intimidate ranks, or something. Adding Str mod basically penalizes dex fighters, you know.

Mobile Warrior should also count as Mobility. You might want to have Armor Training classify as Dodge, if you are going that way with Cleave, etc.

No DR for armor training, that esp stacks with Adamantine?

You still don't have a TH/Dmg bonus at level 1.

No skill points or skill mods?
Any way to buff allies?
Any daily customizability?
Still only one good save?
narrative powers/leadership capability?

==Aelryinth


--To Raltus:

Raltus wrote:
Only thing I can see is that maybe the "Cleaves" are coming in a bit late, since a first level human fighter can take cleave at first level. Maybe drop them to 3rd to keep them relevant?

The reason I set the Feature Cleaves to start at 6th level is based on that the Cleave feat is a standard action from one attack, whereas the Feature Cleaves are used as Full-Attacks that functions from each iterative attack.

Right now I'd prefer to leave where they are, but I'll see how things go as I progress.

--To Aelryinth

Aelryinth wrote:

Two things;

Your Bravery rewrite is...not clear? I think you left out some words. All saves? All Will saves? Note that if you do All Will Saves, you may as well just give him a good will save.
I'm also not a fan of adding stat mods to things. I would personally just double the bonus against fear, or add their Intimidate ranks, or something. Adding Str mod basically penalizes dex fighters, you know.

Mobile Warrior should also count as Mobility. You might want to have Armor Training classify as Dodge, if you are going that way with Cleave, etc.

No DR for armor training, that esp stacks with Adamantine?

You still don't have a TH/Dmg bonus at level 1.

No skill points or skill mods?
Any way to buff allies?
Any daily customizability?
Still only one good save?
narrative powers/leadership capability?

-Little typo with Bravery. It's a bonus to all saves, and I will take your suggestion about unlinking STR as a bonus against fear. I will use ranks in Intimidate instead, with a base bonus of +2.

-I actually made the extra fighter feat at the end of the document count as Mobility, but now I think I'll remove that and have Armor Training count as Dodge and have Mobile Warrior count as Mobility.

-At this time I don't plan on adding any DR features.

-I do not know what TH/Dmg is. Could you explain, please.

-I'll set skill points at 6+INT per level.

-No ally buffs. My view of the fighter is mainly offense, and I see the Cavalier taking care of that role with his Tactician ability. As time goes on I may consider adding some morale bonuses he can grant allies.

-I actually have no ideas for daily customization right now. Any suggestions for that is appreciated.

-Yes.

-I don't really know what narrative powers would really suit a class whose basic premise is professional warrior. He fights, fights well, and doesn't do that much more aside what you do with role play. Again, any suggestions for possible powers are welcome.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

To-hit/Damage. TH/Dmg. You know, like FE Bonus TH/Dmg, Smite TH/Dmg, +4 Str bonus TH/Dmg, etc.
The fighter is the only martial class NOT to get a TH/Dmg bonus at level 1.

IF there's any class that would be all offense, it would be the barbarian. Yet it has the best class defenses overall of all the melee classes, between Superstition, DR, possible Spell Resistance, Nat Armor bonuses, and Dodge bonuses.

Rangers get Guide bonuses.
Barbs can give away Rage.
Paladins can give away smites, and have Auras.
Fighters can do...nothing.

Martial Mastery outright replacing your retrain ability would take care of daily modularity for combat feats. Just have the 'swap out' permanent until swapped again, and allow a free one at the beginning of the day.

Narrative powers for a fighter would include the ability to train others, lead them in war with broad bonuses, acquire followers and/or a land grant of some sort, get a mount/flying mount, and similar things...things that affect the campaign, not just the character. Making him a leader of men he can assign to do things is a narrative power, even if he doesn't take them on dungeon crawls.

==Aelryinth


--To Aelryinth:

For TH/Dmg, I'll try something like a Fighter's Challenge; swift action to pick an enemy, and then get +2 to attack and damage against that enemy, and, of course, the bonus will grow as the fighter gains levels.

I want to think you mean Martial Flexibility, like the brawler or Martial Master archetype. Regardless, I can work with that idea.

Lastly, I can see the ideas for the narrative powers, I'm just have trouble working out the in-game mechanics for them. If you want to write some of them up, I'd be happy to see what I do about working some of them in.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Have you ever read Kirthfinder? It's got some decent rules for narrative powers.

My fighters have the ability to train others better then any other class. So they get employed to train up armies, and then have Marshall abilities that broad large area bonuses to those that follow them.

They also get Leadership automatically if they DM agrees, and automatically get a cohort/fellow martial student/brother apprentice/follower/student at level 2, the same way some classes get an animal companion...but it must be another fighter following the same martial traditions.

This means the fighter automatically has someone to use teamwork feats with, among other things!

Also, added the Runecrafting feat, so you can make magical items out of anything you could craft, as opposed to needing item creation feats and Magical Artisan.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

I must have miss read your Cleave chain the fighter gets, I agree that if it is part of a full attack it should come a bit later.


Let's continue these discussions over here.

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