Finesse Polearms


Rules Questions


So I just want to be sure, but the only way to wield a polearm of your size and weapon finesse it is to have three levels of fighter phalanx, and then go at least one level of swashbuckler. Right?
And with slashing grace and a buckler I can have Dex to both attack and damage? It looks right, but I just want to be sure.

Liberty's Edge

Slashing Grace does indeed allow a buckler to be used in your off-hand, and it does give you Dex to attack and damage. However I'm not seeing how you're getting Weapon Finesse to work with any polearm? Three levels of Phalanx Fighter gives you the polearm as a one-handed weapon, but Weapon Finesse only works on light weapons and specific one-handed weapons. Slashing Grace does would apply to a slashing, one-handed polearm, but that only seems to give you Dex to dmg, not to atk. If you're using Swashbuckler's Finesse, then it only applies to one-handed piercing melee weapons. I'm not sure if a weapon that is P or S would count for both feats, but if it did then the Horsechopper is the only choice; if P and S is required, there are no reach weapons with the property. Additionally, there is some controversy in the rules forums over whether wielding a weapon 'as a one-handed weapon' means it is treated as a one-handed weapon for your character in every respect.

You also can't make the polearm small-sized for you, which would make it a light melee weapon with reach, as Weapon Finesse specifies that it must be for your size.


I guess I really didn't think the slashing grace through there. It's really not that important. My GM has already made a ruling on the one handed feat issue. Thanks though.


Slashing Grace has a line that allows you to apply the slashing weapon as if it was piercing for class features. Everyone forgets this when they see the dex to damage clause, but it's in there. Also, Spear Dancing Style from Weapon Master's Handbook will let you use Weapon Finesse with a spear or polearm. You can also treat it as a quarterstaff for feats, like Quarterstaff Master which lets you one hand it. Or wait until Armor Master Handbook for Shield Brace (I think) which lets you basically take that Phalanx fighter ability as a feat, but you take the ACP of the shield to your attack rolls.


Elven Branched Spear is finesse-able but you can't use slashing grace with it.

Grand Lodge

Elven Branched Spear is another fine way to finesse a polearm. Unchained Rogue 3 for 1.5 dex to damage and reach.

Doh, ninja'ed.


Ok, now that I'm signed in on a computer lets see how confused I am after some more reading.
So I was looking through the PRD about what to do and noticed that slashing grace used Longsword as an example.

PRD wrote:
Slashing Grace (Combat) Benefit: When you take this feat, choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the Longsword). etc.

Now a Longsword cannot be finessed, so I'd have to take weapon finesse as a feat tax to get Slashing Grace and use then benefits of slashing grace make the Longsword a finessed weapon through Swashbuckler's Finesse? Or am I over thinking this.

And if I can do this to a Longsword then why could I not do it to a one handed Bardiche? While I have a buckler. Outside of the controversy obviously.


If you attach an Effortless Lace it makes the weapon act as a light weapon.


I want to say that using Effortless Lace in this manner goes against the groups home hand rule. AKA that controversy that this kind of goes under. I could ask though.


Xeximar wrote:

Ok, now that I'm signed in on a computer lets see how confused I am after some more reading.

So I was looking through the PRD about what to do and noticed that slashing grace used Longsword as an example.

PRD wrote:
Slashing Grace (Combat) Benefit: When you take this feat, choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the Longsword). etc.

Now a Longsword cannot be finessed, so I'd have to take weapon finesse as a feat tax to get Slashing Grace and use then benefits of slashing grace make the Longsword a finessed weapon through Swashbuckler's Finesse? Or am I over thinking this.

And if I can do this to a Longsword then why could I not do it to a one handed Bardiche? While I have a buckler. Outside of the controversy obviously.

Polearms are still two handed weapons whether you have an ability that lets you wield one-handed or not. The ability changes how you use it but not the weapon itself.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just use Spear Dancing Spiral


CBDunkerson wrote:
Just use Spear Dancing Spiral

I'd loose reach without Spear Dancing Reach and even then I only have it till end of turn. And the additional feats that way.

I'll wait until I get home from work to see if this is even worth the can of worms it'll open to even go into this.

Thanks.


Xeximar wrote:

...

Now a Longsword cannot be finessed, so I'd have to take weapon finesse as a feat tax to get Slashing Grace and use then benefits of slashing grace make the Longsword a finessed weapon through Swashbuckler's Finesse? Or am I over thinking this.

...

You are overthinking this. You take a level in Swashbuckler to get Swashbuckler's Finesse. That grants you the benefits of Weapon Finesse for piercing light or one-handed weapons and counts as Weapon Finesse for prerequisites.

Now you take Slashing Grace (Longsword) using Swashbuckler's Finesse to meet the prerequisite. Slashing Grace lets you treat the Longsword as a piercing weapon so now Swashbuckler's Finesse works with your Longsword.

So you never need to take Weapon Finesse to get Dex to hit and damage with a Longsword.


Rowe wrote:
If you attach an Effortless Lace it makes the weapon act as a light weapon.

The lace requires a one handed piercing or slashing weapon. A level 3 phalanx fighter may still be able to do it though.


I'm not sure they can. They can wield it as a one handed weapon, but they don't treat it as a one handed weapon, which means I still think it benefits from effects like a two hander.


Davic The Grey wrote:
Slashing Grace has a line that allows you to apply the slashing weapon as if it was piercing for class features. Everyone forgets this when they see the dex to damage clause, but it's in there.

Though they shouldn't forget it. Because originally, that was the ONLY thing in the feat.

It started its life out as merely a feat that lets you use longswords and such with swashbucklers. A pure flavor feat. That is why it still doesn't address attack rolls- it was always meant just to be a fun little thing for swashbucklers.

But then it got caught up in the ongoing drama of people that want to cut out the str stat. That and people complained about 'another flavor feat?'.


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Zero sum feats are pretty bad, though. Even a flavor feat should give some bonus. It could have been more generic though.

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