I started this thread ( http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tlp0?Does-a-Superstitious-Barbarian-have-to-sa ve ) in the rules forum regarding whether a superstitious barbarian has to save against potions/wands of healing. Assuming that the answer is yes (after discussion that seems like the answer to me), the question arises: how can a superstitious barbarian get healing without dropping out of rage? I'm asking about items he can have in his haversack, not other class abilities like positive channeling, lay on hands, or a healing hex (because when playing in PFS you can't count on having specific party members along with you on any given day).
There are a few rage powers, can't think of an item that is not spell based.
Troll Styptic allows Fast Healing 2 for 2d4 rounds, and it's alchemical. You have to make a Fort save or be sickened for the duration, though.
Dragon's blood (60 gp) heals 1d4.
What about a Martyr's Tear? No sign of saves, heals up to 18 damage as a standard. The only question is if can be refilled between adventures.
There are a few rage powers, can't think of an item that is not spell based.
And those rage powers are:
Lesser Celestial Totem: Enhances healing from spells and non-spells, but heals nothing unaided;Renewed Vigor, Requires 4th level, once per day heals 1d8+Con, with an extra d8 every 4 levels;
Regenerative Vigor, requires 6th level, gain fast healing for rest of rage after using Renewed Vigor.
I assumed that the Treat Deadly Wounds aspect of Healing Skill would help, since as a Wisdom-based skill the barbarian can use it while raging. But Treat Deadly Wounds takes one hour, and no barbarian can rage that long. However, other abilities, such as the Drunken Brawler feat, can give temporary hit points for one hour, giving the barbarian time to treat himself with a Healer's Kit.
The high-tech pharmaceutical Hemochem from the Technology Guide grants fast healing for a minute. But Hemochem costs 250 gp for the weakest grade, fast healing 1.
In combat, healing should almost always be in the form of channels. There are usually better spells of a given level to cast than heals. If worst comes to worst, use the withdrawal action to not die.
A herbal poultice from a herbalist can heal various amounts non magically. If wrapped in oiled or waxed paper it can be brought along without the herbalist.
I understand what you are trying to do, but I don’t think you can do it. The problem is that barbarian’s actions while in rage are limited. It seems to me that retrieving an item from your backpack (or haversack) and using it falls under the “requires patience or concentration”. I don’t think you are going to find any kind of nonmagical healing that a barbarian can use while maintaining rage. I would not allow any barbarian to use any healing item in rage that requires any kind of action on his part. If someone uses the item on him that is different, but the superstitious rage power limits that.
While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
Other than a few rage powers that have been mentioned or items that provide continuous healing you are not going to be able to heal in combat. The only exception may be something that is not spell based that you take before you start your rage.
I understand what you are trying to do, but I don’t think you can do it. The problem is that barbarian’s actions while in rage are limited. It seems to me that retrieving an item from your backpack (or haversack) and using it falls under the “requires patience or concentration”. I don’t think you are going to find any kind of nonmagical healing that a barbarian can use while maintaining rage. I would not allow any barbarian to use any healing item in rage that requires any kind of action on his part. If someone uses the item on him that is different, but the superstitious rage power limits that.
Okay, taking off a backpack and rummaging through the unsorted collection of objects in the bottom would get a raging barbarian screaming in frustration. However, that does not mean it requires patience or concentration.
Patience: the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, trouble, or suffering without getting angry or upset.
If the barbarian can perform the activity while angry and upset, while screaming with rage and seeing red from every little snag and delay, then the activity does not require patience. Diplomacy requires patience, Stealth requires patience, Performance requires patience. Use Magic Device requires patience. Knowledge(engineering) requires patience. Carefully organizing a backpack requires patience. But unpacking a backpack does not. Pulling a flask off his belt does not.
Using the Heal skill to Treat Deadly Wounds requires an hour, so it takes patience. But I already dismissed that as an option while raging.
Abraham Z., I missed a feat, Godless Healing from Inner Sea World Guide. It does not heal much, but the feat can heal without relying on a medicine, healer's kit, or portion.
how can a superstitious barbarian get healing without dropping out of rage?
There is the Moment of Clarity rage power.
Beside this, you could go for temporary hitpoints or fast healing (e.g. Infernal Healing) shortly before rage.
A poultice is what you might call a slapper. Rip it open and slap it on. As I picture it, it can be a non magical cure critical that anyone else can apply to your barbarian.
A poultice is what you might call a slapper. Rip it open and slap it on. As I picture it, it can be a non magical cure critical that anyone else can apply to your barbarian.
There aren't actually any rules for that though, as far as I know. The best we have is the healer's kit, which doesn't really do much for short term healing.
I understand what you are trying to do, but I don’t think you can do it. The problem is that barbarian’s actions while in rage are limited. It seems to me that retrieving an item from your backpack (or haversack) and using it falls under the “requires patience or concentration”. I don’t think you are going to find any kind of nonmagical healing that a barbarian can use while maintaining rage. I would not allow any barbarian to use any healing item in rage that requires any kind of action on his part. If someone uses the item on him that is different, but the superstitious rage power limits that.Okay, taking off a backpack and rummaging through the unsorted collection of objects in the bottom would get a raging barbarian screaming in frustration. However, that does not mean it requires patience or concentration.
Patience: the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, trouble, or suffering without getting angry or upset.If the barbarian can perform the activity while angry and upset, while screaming with rage and seeing red from every little snag and delay, then the activity does not require patience. Diplomacy requires patience, Stealth requires patience, Performance requires patience. Use Magic Device requires patience. Knowledge(engineering) requires patience. Carefully organizing a backpack requires patience. But unpacking a backpack does not. Pulling a flask off his belt does not.
Using the Heal skill to Treat Deadly Wounds requires an hour, so it takes patience. But I already dismissed that as an option while raging.
Abraham Z., I missed a feat, Godless Healing from Inner Sea World Guide. It does not heal much, but the feat can heal without relying on a medicine, healer's kit, or portion.
Pulling the flask of his belt may not require patience or concentration, but opening a sealed flask would. I am assuming that any flask or other alchemical item has some sort of closure to prevent it from being spilled or evaporating.
Boots of the earth (or the much more expensive ring of regeneration) would work fine, with the advantage of requiring minimal action investment from you.
Not particularly. At least in the context of 'something to solve the problem of superstition (I mean... it is fine as a general replacement for wands of CLW- advantages adn disadvantages, but this isn't the place). Boots of the earth is fast healing 1, and rage is rounds/level. So you might have to spend all your rage rounds just to get out of instakill range to merely "bleeding out like a pig".
My problem with superstition is more about conditions than hp issues- if you end up getting a condition, the turn order might keep you crippled for a round longer than others, since you have to drop rage/moment of clarity, and the cleric's turn might come before yours.
So that, and the fact that it also messes with turn order for buffs, means that I think it is perfectly valid to find superstition as 'too strong a flavor', and not pick it. I mean... it isn't hard to get great fort adn will saves as a barbarian anyway. some worries about reflex, but otherwise fine.
Boots of the earth (or the much more expensive ring of regeneration) would work fine, with the advantage of requiring minimal action investment from you.Not particularly. At least in the context of 'something to solve the problem of superstition (I mean... it is fine as a general replacement for wands of CLW- advantages adn disadvantages, but this isn't the place). Boots of the earth is fast healing 1, and rage is rounds/level. So you might have to spend all your rage rounds just to get out of instakill range to merely "bleeding out like a pig".
My problem with superstition is more about conditions than hp issues- if you end up getting a condition, the turn order might keep you crippled for a round longer than others, since you have to drop rage/moment of clarity, and the cleric's turn might come before yours.
So that, and the fact that it also messes with turn order for buffs, means that I think it is perfectly valid to find superstition as 'too strong a flavor', and not pick it. I mean... it isn't hard to get great fort adn will saves as a barbarian anyway. some worries about reflex, but otherwise fine.
In that scenario, the Cleric really should just delay/ready their action for as soon as you've dropped your Rage/used Moment of Clarity.
In that scenario, the Cleric really should just delay/ready their action for as soon as you've dropped your Rage/used Moment of Clarity.
I can still see complications, particularly when more people are involved with the situation.
I willingly admit that superstition is strong, but I often find myself too conservative to fully swallow the risks and complications it brings.
There is also the sneaking suspicion that enemies would also ready actions for the exact same moment. A bit gamey, but you did make frustratingly high saves. I would question a BBEG that didn't get some inkling that it would be a good course of action.
The Godless Healing feat? It'll net you 1d8+HD healing once per day as a supernatural ability once you've hit half your HP. You can retake the feat to get more uses per day.
Hey, you never specified it had to be decent amounts of healing...
Pulling the flask of his belt may not require patience or concentration, but opening a sealed flask would. I am assuming that any flask or other alchemical item has some sort of closure to prevent it from being spilled or evaporating.
A barbarian puts the flask in her mouth, crushes it and devours its contents. It is known.
A poultice is what you might call a slapper. Rip it open and slap it on. As I picture it, it can be a non magical cure critical that anyone else can apply to your barbarian.There aren't actually any rules for that though, as far as I know. The best we have is the healer's kit, which doesn't really do much for short term healing.
My bad for not shouting,"Homebrew! Run!"
But seriously, the original poster did not restrict source any more than no magic. Ground up herbs such as heal all are not magic.
Pulling the flask of his belt may not require patience or concentration, but opening a sealed flask would. I am assuming that any flask or other alchemical item has some sort of closure to prevent it from being spilled or evaporating.A barbarian puts the flask in her mouth, crushes it and devours its contents. It is known.
Some people prefer to chew on wax rather than glass.
Potion Sponge: This egg-sized sponge is covered in a layer of waterproof edible wax, designed to absorb 1 dose of a potion. Chewing a potion sponge and swallowing its liquid contents is a full-round action. A creature of at least Large size can swallow the sponge in its entirely; other creatures must spit out the sponge once it's depleted (a free action). Unlike a potion that is drunk from a vial, a potion sponge can be used underwater. A potion can be poured from a vial into a sponge potion (or squeezed from a sponge into a vial) as a full-round action. The potion sponge is immune to attacks that specifically target crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain, such as shatter. It otherwise works like a potion vial.
Back to Mysterious Stranger's original comment: if opening a potion vial is difficult, then it would require a skill check. If it is a Dexterity-based skill, such as Sleight of Hand required to remove a child-proof cap from a pill vial, then the barbarian cannot use that skill while raging. That is a hardcore requirement, but a reasonable one for a house rule. Meanwhile, the fighter with the Armor Penalty Check from his iron gauntlets won't be able to open those slippery glass flasks either.
The party rogue will become the designated vial opener. This is a valid solution for Abraham Z's raging superstitious barbarian: "Hey, rogue! Get my non-magical healing potion out of my backpack and open it for me or I will bash your head in!"
On the other hand, if opening a vial is a Strength-based skill, such as pulling a cork out of a bottle, the barbarian and fighter won't have any trouble.
A poultice is what you might call a slapper. Rip it open and slap it on. As I picture it, it can be a non magical cure critical that anyone else can apply to your barbarian.There aren't actually any rules for that though, as far as I know. The best we have is the healer's kit, which doesn't really do much for short term healing.My bad for not shouting,"Homebrew! Run!"
But seriously, the original poster did not restrict source any more than no magic. Ground up herbs such as heal all are not magic.
He mentioned that this comes from a rules-thread discussion and mentioned that he needs something for PFS play.
Ok, I see that now.
Still, without homebrew, channel positive energy, or lay on hands, there is no way to get 20 or 30 points of healing. Sounds like Superstitious Rage and PFS just don't mix. Especially when the adventure would take you to that special snowflake kingdom where clerical powers are all banned.
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Ok, I see that now.
Still, without homebrew, channel positive energy, or lay on hands, there is no way to get 20 or 30 points of healing. Sounds like Superstitious Rage and PFS just don't mix. Especially when the adventure would take you to that special snowflake kingdom where clerical powers are all banned.
You're overthinking this.
First, this thread has left off a couple sources of healing: paladin lay on hands and life oracle life link. There are more possibilities than you have been considering.
Second, you won't even get 20 hp out of rage until the end of your PFS career (level 10 or so). And if you're worried about being dead when your rage ends, the target is 20-30hp but rather the number of hit points you gain from rage - your unmodified con score. So if you gain 33 hp from rage but have a starting con of 16, you only need 17 hp of healing to take you from staggered at 0hp to "won't quite be dead when you stop raging." And potion sponges are a PFS thing so you can chew a potion sponge of cure serious wounds (available now for the low price of two prestige) if you end up in that situation. (3d8+5=18.5 healing--so enough if you fail your save but you might need two if you make it).
Third, if you do find yourself in the worrisome situation (high level table, no good healing), no one is making you fight until you're only conscious because of rage hp. You can pull back one round earlier. Every PFS character has to adjust their tactics depending on the table. I've had times that my archer cleric was one of the group's front liners. That's fine. He's got a decent strength, a sword, a buckler and divine favor works in melee too. It's not ideal but you can make do. The superstition barbarian has some adjustments to make but so does every character. And if you really don't think the barbarian will work at the table you find yourself at, you can play an iconic or a different character. There are options.