Variant channeling rules

[thecarrotman]

Ok everyone,

Here is the question:

If I have both variant channeling and versatile channeling (neutral cleric. Do I take both sides of variant channeling-harm and the heal??

Here are the scenarios(presume the conditions effect the target):

Neutral cleric, chosen negative channel with variant channeling, picked up versatile channeling for healing capacity

1)Party is against undead- cleric channels positive energy to harm undead
2)Party is against standard NPCs- cleric channels negative energy to harm NPCs (w selective channeling)
3)Party is against a De-buff built NPC- cleric positive channels for the bonus against status effect
4)Cleric is animating undead- cleric negative channels to heal for bonuses

[BadBird]

I don't see any reason you wouldn't get both sides of Variant Channeling if you choose to use it, though it's going to be treated as two levels lower for Variant Channeling as well.

[thecarrotman]

BadBird wrote:

I don't see any reason you wouldn't get both sides of Variant Channeling if you choose to use it, though it's going to be treated as two levels lower for Variant Channeling as well.

I'm trying not to bias the threads with my opinion. The question is not so much of choice, but my impression, RAW is that you have to select one side or the other, Heal or Harm, which cannot be changed, there is a related thread where the writer, Jason Nelson, stated that during editing, it paizo editors connected heal (postive), and harm (negative), meaning by implication you cannot postive harm, or negative heal

Thus we reach the problem of the question, what is the interaction of versatile channeling feat and variant channeling

Apologies for the lack of clarity

[BadBird]

thecarrotman wrote:

The question is not so much of choice, but my impression, RAW is that you have to select one side or the other, Heal or Harm, which cannot be changed

Variant Channeling wrote:

When you create a cleric character, decide whether she uses the standard form of channel energy or a variant presented here based on one aspect of her deity’s portfolio. Once this choice is made, it cannot be altered. Variant channeling has the same area of effect, save DCs, uses per day, and other rules relating to channeling energy. Feats and abilities that modify or present alternative uses for channeled energy (such as Command Undead and Turn Undead) work normally with these variant channeling abilities.

I'm not sure what you lead you to believe that by RAW you choose Heal or Harm exclusively; it looks to me like you're choosing the "portfolio". If you then take Variant Channel, you gain access to negative energy and your chosen "portfolio" works with that feat.

Variant Channeling wrote:

"A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm."

That one is indeed very self-explanatory.

[Manly-man teapot]

Confusing the issue, some of the variant channels don't make much sense. The Undeath variant does literally nothing.

[CBDunkerson]

Manly-man teapot wrote:

Confusing the issue, some of the variant channels don't make much sense. The Undeath variant does literally nothing.

"Harm—The healing effect is enhanced for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity."

+50% healing seems like more than "nothing" to me.

[Avoron]

50% healing is very useful... except when provided by an ability that only activates when you channel negative energy to harm.

[CBDunkerson]

Regardless of how useful it is (maybe ask a Dhampir)... it exists. The Undeath variant does 'something'.

That is, as written, Undeath 'Heal' should be the same as non-variant positive healing while Undeath 'Harm' should be 50% of normal damage to positive energy creatures and 150% healing to negative energy creatures.

I agree that seems unlikely to have been the intent (more likely it S/B 50% positive harm and 50% negative heal), but it's what the ability says and is clearly not "nothing".

[thecarrotman]

BadBird wrote:

thecarrotman wrote:

The question is not so much of choice, but my impression, RAW is that you have to select one side or the other, Heal or Harm, which cannot be changed

Variant Channeling wrote:

When you create a cleric character, decide whether she uses the standard form of channel energy or a variant presented here based on one aspect of her deity’s portfolio. Once this choice is made, it cannot be altered. Variant channeling has the same area of effect, save DCs, uses per day, and other rules relating to channeling energy. Feats and abilities that modify or present alternative uses for channeled energy (such as Command Undead and Turn Undead) work normally with these variant channeling abilities.

I'm not sure what you lead you to believe that by RAW you choose Heal or Harm exclusively; it looks to me like you're choosing the "portfolio". If you then take Variant Channel, you gain access to negative energy and your chosen "portfolio" works with that feat.

Variant Channeling wrote:

"A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm."

That one is indeed very self-explanatory.

You are absolutely right and we agree perfectly on this part. The question is, when you take versatile channeling (giving you the other side), would you be variant channeling (heal-presumably of the same portfolio), or would it be a standard channel (as a cleric 2 levels lower, per versatile channel). It doesn't explicitly say, at least in my opinion, thus the post

[Avoron]

CBDunkerson wrote:

Regardless of how useful it is (maybe ask a Dhampir)... it exists. The Undeath variant does 'something'.

That is, as written, Undeath 'Heal' should be the same as non-variant positive healing while Undeath 'Harm' should be 50% of normal damage to positive energy creatures and 150% healing to negative energy creatures.

I agree that seems unlikely to have been the intent (more likely it S/B 50% positive harm and 50% negative heal), but it's what the ability says and is clearly not "nothing".

You're missing the point.

Channel Energy wrote:

An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.

When you channel negative energy, you have to decide between channeling to heal and channeling to harm. Variant channeling provides alternative effects for channeling negative energy to harm. But if you channel negative energy to heal, you cannot use variant channeling.

Variant Channeling wrote:

A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm.

So the Undeath variant channeling does, in fact, do literally nothing. The ability only effects your dice when you channel to heal, and it can only be used when you channel to harm.