How does the Vigilante talent Safe House work?


Rules Questions


Is it basically a magical place where you can build rooms however you like? Or do you have to have a place (like a building or cave) and designate it a safe house?


Either/or. Ask your GM for how it should manifest.


All the game says is:

Quote:
This safe house must be an area no larger in volume than a cube that is a number of feet per side equal to 10 feet per vigilante level. The safe house can be arranged any way he likes and it can be part of a larger building, like a secret room or an underground cave.

Which seems to implicitly assume it is some sort of structure or other enclosed area, but does not explicitly say that. If I want to arrange my safe house as "specific chunk of land, sea, or air" with no structure or anything to distinguish it feel like I could do it, and if I wanted to build a structure there later then I would be free to (as written). Although since it is not "safe random space anywhere," I could see someone feeling otherwise and forcing it to be something at least vaguely housy, even if that means "distinct forest clearing" or whatever.


It'll have to be in a physical location, so the latter. But the details are up to the player and GM to work out I guess. You could say that the time it took to set up renown (or get the talent if you don't have renown) you spent the time secretly excavating/discovering a place big enough for the talent initially, and been expanding it per each level up.

Dark Archive

I would argue as well that if you some how acquired a permanent demiplane from the spell "Create Demiplane" that you can then designate part of the plane as your safe house,


My main question is not about the space requirements (I'd agree if you had a demiplane you could do it there, or if you had a portion of a building etc.)

My question is mostly does it create the building itself or does it require an existing building?

For example, let's say I have a small building (10'x10') on a large plot in my renown area, I want to make a safe house, does the ability allow me to create the underground secret area or do I have to build it and then apply it to this area?

The fact that it says "can be arranged any way he likes" makes me feel like I can make it as part of an ability.

Paizo Employee Designer

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pinkycatcher wrote:

My main question is not about the space requirements (I'd agree if you had a demiplane you could do it there, or if you had a portion of a building etc.)

My question is mostly does it create the building itself or does it require an existing building?

For example, let's say I have a small building (10'x10') on a large plot in my renown area, I want to make a safe house, does the ability allow me to create the underground secret area or do I have to build it and then apply it to this area?

The fact that it says "can be arranged any way he likes" makes me feel like I can make it as part of an ability.

You would still build (or find, like a cave) it yourself. Arranging the space in any way you like means you don't need to make it a big old cube, so at level 10, instead of being a 100x100x100 cube, you could instead have (if you found or built one and really wanted to) a 5 foot wide 10 foot high corridor nearly 4 miles long. That might seem really bizarre to do at first, but now imagine you're a halfling in the Bellflower Network and you want to build a tunnel to smuggle out slaves from Egorian while protecting them from divinations.


Got ya. That's what I thought, but some of it seemed mildly ambiguous and I didn't want to pressure my GM (or when I GM have someone pressure me) into giving the vigilante a free base of operations to expand on a whim.

Otherwise, super cool class, I can see how it might be a bit weak in a PFS adventure, but in some APs and homebrew it's pretty awesome.

Paizo Employee Designer

pinkycatcher wrote:

Got ya. That's what I thought, but some of it seemed mildly ambiguous and I didn't want to pressure my GM (or when I GM have someone pressure me) into giving the vigilante a free base of operations to expand on a whim.

Otherwise, super cool class, I can see how it might be a bit weak in a PFS adventure, but in some APs and homebrew it's pretty awesome.

A vigilante actually would probably objectively perform pretty well in a PFS adventure (if I recall, Protoman who posted earlier in this thread had some fun adventures with the playtest version, and in the final, we actually strengthened one of the vigilante talents in his build by a good amount for PFS levels), but you'd be likely to not be able to use some of your cool abilities to their fullest (or sometimes at all), which will probably give some people an unsatisfying feeling of "missing out" regardless of how good the performance with the remaining abilities was.


Mark Seifter wrote:
pinkycatcher wrote:

Got ya. That's what I thought, but some of it seemed mildly ambiguous and I didn't want to pressure my GM (or when I GM have someone pressure me) into giving the vigilante a free base of operations to expand on a whim.

Otherwise, super cool class, I can see how it might be a bit weak in a PFS adventure, but in some APs and homebrew it's pretty awesome.

A vigilante actually would probably objectively perform pretty well in a PFS adventure (if I recall, Protoman who posted earlier in this thread had some fun adventures with the playtest version, and in the final, we actually strengthened one of the vigilante talents in his build by a good amount for PFS levels), but you'd be likely to not be able to use some of your cool abilities to their fullest (or sometimes at all), which will probably give some people an unsatisfying feeling of "missing out" regardless of how good the performance with the remaining abilities was.

The Crimson Falcon is now way more punch happy and thanks you for it!

For PFS, it comes down to when and how you use your social talents.
Urban setting? Use social identity if you've set it up as being useful for RP and keep up with the sociable investigator or bard.
Dungeon crawl? Use the vigilante identity and be as effective in combat as any other martial/6 spell level caster (if using magic archetypes).
Stuck in a situation where you can't switch identities? Make sure the both identities got stuff to offer in and out of combat.

I made a bigger post about it here.

I'm not sure how useful a safe house would be, but just like with my Ship vanity for other characters, I'd take any opportunity to bring it up for the party to use if I had it.


Mark Seifter wrote:
but you'd be likely to not be able to use some of your cool abilities to their fullest (or sometimes at all), which will probably give some people an unsatisfying feeling of "missing out" regardless of how good the performance with the remaining abilities was.

That's what I meant, some things don't translate well into a module by module type of game. But I've already got some really big plans for this class. Super exciting!


Gives me an idea...
I should make a bbeg who is a Warlock or Psychometrist using a Lyre Of Building and Safehouse to create a citywide transmutation circle network of tunnels that form a magic circle that shuts down unsanctioned magic within it's confines.


Picking up the ability at level one gives you a 10' cube. Picking it up at level three gives you a 30' cube. So here's my dumb question: If you pick up the ability at level one, can you automatically add on the additional space once you hit level three?


zeitgeistclown wrote:

Picking up the ability at level one gives you a 10' cube. Picking it up at level three gives you a 30' cube. So here's my dumb question: If you pick up the ability at level one, can you automatically add on the additional space once you hit level three?

Yes. It magically expands as you level up. Same deal with spells and other scaling class features.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
You would still build (or find, like a cave) it yourself.

How long does the effect of a safe house last?

Ok, at first, it's an absurd question but I'm thinking about the long-term ramifications. What if the vigilante moves far, far away? Does the class feature still protect her safe house? How far is far? Does "far, far away" include interstellar travel? Does it include planar travel? Does it include time travel? Does the effect survive the death of the vigilante? If yes, for how long -- looking at the possibility of resurrection?

Maybe Mr. Seifter had something in mind what couldn't be included into the social talent?

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