How do I get these people to stop collecting skulls without breaking the group?


Advice

1 to 50 of 117 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Let me start off by saying these guys are all neutral in terms of good/evil. We've made a fort inside of a mountain as we wait for the GM's macguffin to show up and demons found it. We killed them easily...but then our eldritch knight and our bard decided that their skulls would make great decorations and lights and now we have 13 of them around the place. We also have a petrified demon acting as a statue in the main hall. For awhile I haven't done anything about it, my character's neutral as well and while she's not happy about it she'd rather not rock the boat, but now that the party is considering bringing a paladin we found in a dragon's hoard back from the dead...yeah that might be an issue.

So I'm not good with people, they're kind of hard for me to understand, is there any way for me to convince these incredibly stubborn people to let go of the collection they currently have? Like is there anything not skull related I can offer instead with more cool factor than flaming skulls?


What does the paladin bring to the group that furthers the groups overall goals? "Guys, if we want the paladin to cooperate so we can do X, we should consider mothballing the skulls. Otherwise, the lawful good paladin probably won't work with us and may work against us. This is kind of like asking a druid for help and resurrecting them in a hunting lodge full of deer busts."

Offer a compromise. Perhaps limiting the morbid decor to private or lesser tracked areas?


9 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm pretty sure there are Paladins that would be completly fine with trophies taken from defeated demons.


Well our goal right now is to stop the plans of a rakshasa archfiend who is trying to become immortal. We don't know all the details of the plan but if what my character's visions tell her are true the results involve the sun going dark and a lot of bloodshed, possibly another dark age. Currently our sights are set on two of his generals, one of which is a very powerful necromancer fiend and the other we know nothing about.

There's a lot more details but given the stakes if we fail and the amount of powerful evil we're going against...

Your suggestion is much appreciated though, kinda wish I had thought of that myself. If we can get the statue in another spot as well we can probably get this guy to aid us...if only for a little bit. Though I did have the sense to suggest doing the resurrection in a room without skulls. We're talking about a fort with three floors here so that's not exactly hard to do.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm not sure I even understand what the issue is. A paladin wouldn't care about trophies taken from dead fiends. If your group was decorating the place with human skulls, that's one thing, but demons? Paladins won't care about that.

People like to have fun in different ways, forcing your group to behave the way you want them to will probably make them resentful.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I gotta agree with HeHateMe on this one. If the rest of the group and the GM is having fun this way, I don't think trying to change them is the answer. But there is the old adage of TALKING to your group. If these are your friends and what they are doing is bothering you, telling them that it bothers you should get at least a little compromise going.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Might want to check if the skulls radiate evil.

Depending on the worldview, it is possible to that the physical body of a demon is evil. In some mythos, a demon's body would act as a beacon to other evils. If the remains radiate evil, having them around becomes a health concern.


Have you tried taking the tops of the skulls and turning them into mugs? Paladins also get thirsty...

AKA I don't really understand the issue. Skulls and bones are the interior biological architecture of the creature's physiognomy, and can be quite beautiful objects. Why do people consider skulls and bones "evil" or "spooky"? Is this a character issue or a player issue?


Hmm, guess it's just me worrying about things...again. I have a tendency to do that and considering skulls are...well...remains even if they do belong to evil incarnate and all the taboos about messing with corpses around. And that's not counting the amount of skull themed villains and villain forts and it's kinda hard to shake the "skull decorations are evil" stigma.

The Exchange

I believe its the desecration of the body (of sentient beings) that people find evil. Also it ties in slightly with the sin of pride, that you take trophies of your enemies. Too much pride can lead to the dark side.

Can a sentient being(even a demon) be irredeemably evil? If its sentient, is it not possible to teach it the error of its ways?

I think if I played a paladin(not going to happen - since I don't play paladins), trophy taking of any sort would make me feel uncomfortable, but that's me. If you use demon skulls to intimidate others, then you're no better then them.


To the extent a paladin would have an issue with it, it would be for celebrating or glorifying death. Perhaps for a few specific gods that might be a problem, but not all paladins. If it's an NPC it should be able to fit in anywhere otherwise the GM is causing his own problems.

I get the sense that this is an aesthetic problem. They like this, your character doesn't fit it. Is there a large space you can make your own. This could be a fun role playing opportunity where you just start decorating your own part of the castle in your own way. If people don't play along you should discuss out of character why having a refuge from that is important to your character and is a fair compromise for allowing them to keep most of the castles adorned in skulls.

It's always best if you can find a way to accommodate everyone in world; and often the simplest solution. If not, discuss it with the group casually and it probably won't be a problem unless you play with pretty unreasonable people.

Sovereign Court

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Best thread title ever.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think maybe you're overthinking it. I mean, lets take batman for example. in his bat cave he has a giant penny, a robot t-rex, mr freeze's ray gun, a kryptonite ring etc. its practically a museum of villainy, and this doesn't make batman a villain. I mean in the game theres a weapon called a klar which is literally a giant lizard skull, plus all of the stuff in the game that dragon parts are used for.

so yeah, don't think of it as a demon castle, think of it as a heroes trophy room.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thirteen skulls?

Amateurs.


One thing I think needs clarification is if this in an 'in character' issue or an 'out of character' issue.

Some of what you write seems in character, some of it seems out of character. If this is purely an in game issue and you as a real live person arn't bothered by what is going on in the game, then that is covered pretty well by everything above. Most paladins won't have a big issue with the macabre decor and even those that don't agree with it probably would just talk about it rather than trying to get their smite on right away.

If though the root of the issue is that this makes you as a player uncomfortable, then you should bring it up with the group. Simply say, that you really don't like the dead body thing and ask if that can be removed from the game to make you feel more comfortable. Unless the other members of the group are real jerks, they should be happy to accommodate that request.


9 people marked this as a favorite.

maybe they should make a skull throne

MAYBE THEY SHOULD TAKE MORE SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE


bodhranist wrote:

Thirteen skulls?

Amateurs.

In medieval times, skulls and bones were often displayed in crypts. Hiding the dead is a much more modern thing.

Barbarians would likely have skull trophies, and even wear skulls of creatures they killed.

/cevah


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Even the most honorable and enlightened masters of yoga are not against using skulls as personal adornment.


Tammy has a Skull Throne. They're pretty sweet.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Even some of the most enlightened and civilized cities are built with bones.


@captain yesterday has the right idea. There are churches with all bone motifs made with human bones.

Creepy Church

These are places that consider themselves decidedly good, but have pretty macabre décor. Granted historically they ran into issues with having mire bodies than space. Dogma called for people to be buried on Holy Ground. As places became more popular (and expensive) they had to find ways of storing bones that they promised to intern on Church grounds.

So it may simply be an issue of taste.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've got bad news for you. There is nothing cooler than 13 flaming skull lamps. Even a fishnet leg lamp would not be cooler than those.

However, any reasonable paladin (they not myths!) shouldn't go all smitey because of your interior decorating selections. Especially if you raise him/her and then give him marshmallows to roast over said flaming skulls. You get bonus points if you include Graham crackers and Hershey squares--or Reeses peanut butter cups!

;-)

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
SmiloDan wrote:

Especially if you raise him/her and then give him marshmallows to roast over said flaming skulls. You get bonus points if you include Graham crackers and Hershey squares--or Reeses peanut butter cups!

;-)

I don't know, giving him marshmallows to roast over an everburning skull is actually kind of mean. He's just going to be sitting there forever, waiting for his marshmallow to roast.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've been playing a lot of 5th Edition and forgot PF had no poetic license. ;-)


You put the skulls in a circle around the house and create a barrier that keeps the fiends out.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

And make a funerary clock or sun- or moon-dial out them.

With wackiness happening at 13 o'clock...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I shall use them to make a henhouse.

Psychologically crippled chickens lay the best eggs.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Goth Guru wrote:
You put the skulls in a circle around the house and create a barrier that keeps the fiends out.

You paint them various colors and hide them around the yard so the village children can hunt for them. ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
HyperMissingno wrote:
Currently our sights are set on two of his generals, one of which is a very powerful necromancer fiend and the other we know nothing about.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Let me get this right. You KNOW you are up against a NECROMANCER, and you are filling your bace with SKULLS???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Maybe they are trying to get their Warhammer 40k on. All Grimdarky.


Skull Decorations are super cool. Warhammer fan here haha!


Let me just add that you are perfectly justified in being uncomfortable, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Desecrating the remains of a sentient being as a trophy has long and very complex real-world parallels. It's not necessarily evil, but done in a thoughtless manner for the cool factor it's not far off from it. It's clearly a means of establishing dominance by denigrating a foe's corpse, and corpses are widely considered sacrosanct in most cultures.

In fact, that might be the best angle to go with this. Try and roleplay the discomfort. Talk with your GM about how best to go about this. Make it something that everyone could potentially get a small XP reward for.

Or as already pointed out, establish the stupidity of keeping bodily remains around when you know you're fighting a necromancer. At the very least expect everything done within sight and hearing of the skulls to be known by your foe.


I don't know any necromancy spells that specifically make use of skulls for divination or skulls only...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Azazyll wrote:
Or as already pointed out, establish the stupidity of keeping bodily remains around when you know you're fighting a necromancer. At the very least expect everything done within sight and hearing of the skulls to be known by your foe.

If the necromancer is wasting his time fiddling with every skull instead of creating real threats, it would be well worth the time collecting more skulls. What's an immobile skull going to tell you that an incorporeal undead sneaking around couldn't?

I see no reason for being uncomfortable. People make things out of sentient beings all the time. Dragon blood, bones, teeth and hide. Elf hands into amulets. How many parts of Vecna where artifacts? Jawbone of the Venerable Galevius [good artifact]. Is the paladin walking away if someone shows up in black dragon plate?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Well, if you're truly uncomfortable, talk to your group, or at the very least, your GM about it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Those skulls and statues are a tribute to the party's dedication to defend the weak against great evil, why would a paladin have a problem with that? Especially if someone is telling said paladin that these are key to a warding to weaken demons around your home. What's the paladin to do, make you weaker against enemies you have earned doing righteous deeds?

Shadow Lodge

Cast detect evil on the bodies
If they're evil at minimum keep them away from you when he first looks at you
Want to avoid any misunderstandings

Secondly
Find some way to prevent the bones from reanimating should the bad guy decide to be proactive and attack you


Lord Foul II wrote:

Cast detect evil on the bodies

If they're evil at minimum keep them away from you when he first looks at you
Want to avoid any misunderstandings

Secondly
Find some way to prevent the bones from reanimating should the bad guy decide to be proactive and attack you

Dr Styx wrote:
HyperMissingno wrote:
Currently our sights are set on two of his generals, one of which is a very powerful necromancer fiend and the other we know nothing about.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Let me get this right. You KNOW you are up against a NECROMANCER, and you are filling your bace with SKULLS???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

What is a necromancer going to do with disembodied skulls? The only thing I can imagine amounts having them rattle their teeth like one of those wind-up toys. Unless that necromancer is called Quackerjack, I wouldn't worry.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Does PF not have flaming skulls? Or an inventive GM or necromancer that can come up with something similar? Demonic Demiliches?


It might be interesting if the DM decided that the group's grisly trophies of Evil beings are likely to form into some sort of haunting.


SmiloDan wrote:
Does PF not have flaming skulls? Or an inventive GM or necromancer that can come up with something similar? Demonic Demiliches?

You can't just create a demilich, as for other undead, animate dead only works to create zombies or skeletons from intact corpses/skeletons, create undead might work on the skulls, but that has a 1 hour casting time so it's not something he's going to pull off mid fight if he attacks their base.


Actually, a necromancer could, given a couple of standard actions, use Animate Dead on a skull to create a beheaded, perhaps a giant screaming beheaded if the demons were particularly big. Or with just a little GM license, the necromancer could animate them all as a beheaded swarm.

Probably not worth losing sleep over.


SmiloDan wrote:
Does PF not have flaming skulls? Or an inventive GM or necromancer that can come up with something similar? Demonic Demiliches?

Anything they could do with the skulls they could do far worse with a whole body. As I said before if the necromancer has a skull fetish for some reason the party should collect MORE skulls as it'll make the fight easier if he's doing that instead of creating real threats...

Emmit Svenson: Yeah, beheaded are level 3 improved familiars making them as dangerous as dire rats... A whole CR 1/3. A Belching, Flaming, Grabbing, Screaming and Swarming beheaded is what, a CR 2? Yes please, waste time on these...


Skull swarm. I want that in Bestiary 6! :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Goth Guru wrote:
Skull swarm. I want that in Bestiary 6! :)

Yeah, give PC necromancers easy access to the swarm rules. That is a great idea.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Summon swarm is a 2nd level spell. :-)


Summon Skull Swarm does not have to be 2nd level.
Bones are resistant to fire so it can be 5th or 6th spell level.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I was just pointing out there was a 2nd level spell (or two: vomit swarm) already.

Higher level spells could summon higher CR swarms, like mad monkeys.

Maybe it's the evil GM in me, but I've always loved swarms. But it really depends on what the party's capabilities are that determine when/if I unleash swarms against them.

I think the MM3 had the ephemeral swarm, which was incorporeal and undead and a swarm.


Ooooh! How about a staff of life that recharges one charge by vaporizing 200 lbs of remains? Of course a True Res. will take all 10 charges. A few of those in the campaign area and everyone with dearly departed will come knocking at your door. Talk to your GM and see if the Staff of Life and Death is right for your game. :)

Disclaimer: The Staff of Life and Death costs much more to make. It will not restore the lost level. May cause constitution loss in 1st level characters. It may offend some religions to destroy remains like that. Side effects may include Monty Haul or Christmas Tree syndrome. Use responsibly unless everyone has signed off on an irresponsible campaign.


Threeshades wrote:
Dr Styx wrote:
HyperMissingno wrote:
Currently our sights are set on two of his generals, one of which is a very powerful necromancer fiend and the other we know nothing about.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Let me get this right. You KNOW you are up against a NECROMANCER, and you are filling your bace with SKULLS???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

What is a necromancer going to do with disembodied skulls? The only thing I can imagine amounts having them rattle their teeth like one of those wind-up toys. Unless that necromancer is called Quackerjack, I wouldn't worry.

Only Animate Dead starts you need a full body, Create Undead has no such restriction.

1 to 50 of 117 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / How do I get these people to stop collecting skulls without breaking the group? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.