Familiar Ioun Stone

[Renarin Kholin]

My question is a two part
part one: can a familiar, with charisma 11 or higher, activate a silver spindle ioun stone.
I know that familiars can have ioun stones circle them, and that contiunius effects do work on them, but is activating a silver spindle too close to using a wand?

part two: assuming that the familiar can effectivly use the ioun stone, what level would it be counted as for determining caster level? is it the same as the master's level or is it 1 or something else?

[Cayzle]

Problem with a familiar using any ioun stone, IMNSHO, is that it has to HOLD it, then release it. That rules out creatures that cannot hold a stone.

You can share an Alter Self with the familiar, then let the familiar hold and release the stone. But you have to reuse this slightly bogus fix every time you want to put it back on.

Moreover, any item, stone or otherwise, that is activated, is most likely activated by command word. So a familiar cannot activate an item unless the familiar can speak, such as a raven, or some improved familiars.

(Personally, I would not rule that a familiar in a humanoid form via Alter Self can speak.]

Hope that helps!

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Cayzle wrote:

Problem with a familiar using any ioun stone, IMNSHO, is that it has to HOLD it, then release it. That rules out creatures that cannot hold a stone.

You can share an Alter Self with the familiar, then let the familiar hold and release the stone. But you have to reuse this slightly bogus fix every time you want to put it back on.

Moreover, any item, stone or otherwise, that is activated, is most likely activated by command word. So a familiar cannot activate an item unless the familiar can speak, such as a raven, or some improved familiars.

(Personally, I would not rule that a familiar in a humanoid form via Alter Self can speak.]

Hope that helps!

I disagree. Based on my (possibly flawed) memory I don't believe holding and releasing is a stated requirement.

However, even if it is a requirement most (possibly all) standard familiars can grasp and release. Beaks, claws, monkey hands even have thumbs. Even the lowly snake can grasp a pebble in its mouth then release. Even non magical Ravens, for example, are capable of very complex manipulation and even feats of engineering.

[Cayzle]

Regarding who can grasp what, YMMV -- See what your DM says!

Rules quote: "When a character first acquires a stone, she must hold it and then release it, whereupon it takes up a circling orbit 1d3 feet from her head."

My shadowdancer's shadow companion cannot use one because he cannot first hold it and release. :-(

[JSalley]

Renarin Kholin wrote:

My question is a two part

part one: can a familiar, with charisma 11 or higher, activate a silver spindle ioun stone.
I know that familiars can have ioun stones circle them, and that contiunius effects do work on them, but is activating a silver spindle too close to using a wand?

part two: assuming that the familiar can effectivly use the ioun stone, what level would it be counted as for determining caster level? is it the same as the master's level or is it 1 or something else?

This would be my take on the whole scenario.

Being that to use an ioun stone only requires the subject to hold and release for it to start doing its thing, and doesn't require the subject to understand what it's doing, or requires the use of an activation word. Just looking at the familiars in the core rulebook. I think all of the familiar's presented, could do that just fine.

Now could the familiar make use of the power of that particular stone? I think the best way to answer that would be to take a look through the various bestiaries and see if there is a monster that has either a low intelligence and / or charisma score and see if they have any spell-like abilities.

Though intelligence isn't a requirement for that stone to work, I think it comes down to. Just because you meet the requirements, doesn't always mean you understand what it all means or how to tap into said power.

IE: Just because I know if I do A + B to make C, doesn't mean I actually know what is happening, I know that if this plus this will make this happen.

[Cevah]

Cayzle wrote:

Regarding who can grasp what, YMMV -- See what your DM says!

Rules quote: "When a character first acquires a stone, she must hold it and then release it, whereupon it takes up a circling orbit 1d3 feet from her head."

My shadowdancer's shadow companion cannot use one because he cannot first hold it and release. :-(

I would houserule that Ghost Salt (20 gp) applied to the stone would let the shadow use it. And it would not wear off, since the stone never makes an attack. I would even extend the rule to treat the stones as ammo, i.e. that one dose of blanch will cover 10 ioun stones.

/cevah