Ghost in the Shell - Live action film


Movies

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Rysky wrote:
Crusinos wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Why is no one getting riled up about movies coming out of France? or the U.K.? or China? or Japan? What about unions and actors guilds people... do studios have complete freedom over what they do? or are they bound by certain laws and regulations about staffing and filming locations? does casting a movie in the USA come with certain obligations to give parts to American actors?

I don't know the answers to all this, but I know there's an entire industry thriving on making movies - just look at the credits at the end of any movie. Legal is a huge part of the equation. I just don't have enough information to base an informed opinion on this subject.

I agree with the above posters that money is probably the biggest, number one reason for casting though. When the casting of a Japanese or African or European or Russian or [...+n_Ethnicity] character goes to an actor of a different ethnicity, are reparations or compensations made to the authors or creators of the said characters? do they have a say in it, or did they sign that privilege away when the studio bought their intellectual property? I don't know. Maybe someone from the movie industry that's on this thread can comment, but this appears to be a complex issue that would benefit from such facts and a dreaded backstory to understand all ramifications...

The Japanese creators of Ghost in the Shell are perfectly happy with the race change. They've stated such multiple times in multiple media formats.

Pretty much, this is entirely an American argument. The rest of the world doesn't care, and likely never will. A lot of them, from what I've seen, would prefer it if we'd just shut up about this issue. After all, as several of them have put to me bluntly when I've asked about it, "you can't steal culture."

Which is complete and total b*~*@%@*.

It's called appropriation.

And most cultures, from what I've seen, don't care.

You think Japan cares if we appropriate anime or anime characters? When it comes to appropriation, the Japanese are the cultural equivalent of pack rats; they take everything they can, including language when they can adapt it. Appropriating English even has a term: wasei eigo.

Cultural appropriation is only a problem if it offends those being appropriated from. And relevant to this conversation: The Japanese don't care. Everything that was necessary for Ghost in the Shell to exist they appropriated from America anyway (yes, even anime; it's a humanized form of Donald Duck).

Silver Crusade

Allow me to repeat myself: b#@@~&#%


All I know is manga got it's help from Scrooge McDuck.

There after, it was all Japanese.


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Captain Battletoad wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

The issue is, as I said before, Asian stars not having name recognition is a problem Hollywood created.

They can't then turn around and throw their hands in the air and say "shucks! Nothing we can do!" and absolve themselves of guilt.

Furthermore, Star Wars benefited a lot from nostalgia and big actors in supporting roles, but what about Hunger Games? Did that movie make bank on the blistering star power of Woody Harrelson and Donald Sutherland?

I would argue no.

They can't say "there's nothing we can do", but it's perfectly reasonable for them to say "why change our formula when it works". As for The Hunger Games, it drew in lots of people from the book.

The thing is, it's not a formula that works. Movies with big name stars flop all the time. Many, I would argue, flop because they spend more money and effort chasing big names and less on developing a good script or finding the right people to work on the film (actors or otherwise).

And yes, Hunger Games was a popular book, but it wasn't that popular. I bet the movie drove more people to the book than vice versa.
For that matter, Ghost in the Shell is a popularge media franchise--spanning books, movies, TV shows, and video games--so why are we not expecting it's fans to turn out as well?

Nay nay friend, it absolutely IS a formula that works. Just because something has a <100% success rate does not make it a failure. Why do you think studios keep casting well known (and expensive) actors to voice CGI characters? It draws in people who like those actors. Are there successful movies with unknown or less well known actors/actresses? Absolutely! Does that mean that name recognition isn't often a very big part of a movie's success? Not even close! Also, many of us have already said that we are expecting fans of GitS to turn out. We're ALSO saying that the number of GitS fans in existence is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than the number of fans for the franchises I was talking about in response to Irontruth earlier (like Star Wars).

Silver Crusade

We were talking about live action actors, not voice acting.


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Rysky wrote:
We were talking about live action actors, not voice acting.

So what? The point I was emphasizing is that name recognition is important. Referencing Hollywood's tendency to cast recognizable names despite their faces not appearing is extremely relevant.


Rysky,

Yep. I mean I love Steven Jay Blum, but even I'm not sure he'd be my first choice to play Mugen in a live action Samuari Champloo. Spike Speigeal maybe.

Silver Crusade

Captain Battletoad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
We were talking about live action actors, not voice acting.
So what? The point I was emphasizing is that name recognition is important. Referencing Hollywood's tendency to cast recognizable names despite their faces not appearing is extremely relevant.

No, voice recognition is important. There's a difference between casting for voices and casting faces.

The conversation was "this works" and when someone replied that it doesn't your response was "it does because I'm actually talking about something else".


Rysky wrote:
Allow me to repeat myself: b&&$!$&+

The Japanese are surprised people are offended it's not a Japanese actress. Not b&&$!$&+.

Want me to show you the words of the guy who originated anime? Where he admits he based his art style on Disney?

Liberty's Edge

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Crusinos wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Allow me to repeat myself: b&&$!$&+

The Japanese are surprised people are offended it's not a Japanese actress. Not b&&$!$&+.

Want me to show you the words of the guy who originated anime? Where he admits he based his art style on Disney?

Don't bother. It's a waste of time. It's not going to change anything. Some psters will keep claiming it's still racist or cultural appropriation. Or other trigger happy buzzwords. That really exist only in North America At most it's going to get more rude responses in the hope to get the thread closed. One has better chance of trying to smash his head through a reinforced steel wall.


Rysky wrote:
Captain Battletoad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
We were talking about live action actors, not voice acting.
So what? The point I was emphasizing is that name recognition is important. Referencing Hollywood's tendency to cast recognizable names despite their faces not appearing is extremely relevant.

No, voice recognition is important. There's a difference between casting for voices and casting faces.

The conversation was "this works" and when someone replied that it doesn't your response was "it does because I'm actually talking about something else".

Right, so I guess that's why New Line Cinema never advertised that Benedict Cumberbatch was voicing Smaug, or why Dreamworks never advertised the fact that Eddie Murphy, John Lithgow, and Mike Meyers were in Shrek. Oh wait, they did! Now why could that be? Could it be because people would go, "Oh hey, I know those people!" during commercials, making them pay more attention to the advertisement? Also, I never made an argument for specifically casting faces, I made an argument for casting names, which is why my response was "it does because here's another relevant example of the same thing occuring, despite faces not being present", instead of the words you tried to put in my mouth.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Casting a white American actress as the Major is much more of an issue in the United States than it is anywhere in Asia. Understanding our debate over this matter requires a level of detailed knowledge about American culture and history that most people in Asia would lack.

If you want to cause a controversy in Japan, you might get further casting an actress of Korean, Chinese, or other non-Japanese Asian ethnicity in that role. That would stir up a debate that would be as perplexing to most Americans as our current debate is to them.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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Captain Battletoad wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Captain Battletoad wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

The issue is, as I said before, Asian stars not having name recognition is a problem Hollywood created.

They can't then turn around and throw their hands in the air and say "shucks! Nothing we can do!" and absolve themselves of guilt.

Furthermore, Star Wars benefited a lot from nostalgia and big actors in supporting roles, but what about Hunger Games? Did that movie make bank on the blistering star power of Woody Harrelson and Donald Sutherland?

I would argue no.

They can't say "there's nothing we can do", but it's perfectly reasonable for them to say "why change our formula when it works". As for The Hunger Games, it drew in lots of people from the book.

The thing is, it's not a formula that works. Movies with big name stars flop all the time. Many, I would argue, flop because they spend more money and effort chasing big names and less on developing a good script or finding the right people to work on the film (actors or otherwise).

And yes, Hunger Games was a popular book, but it wasn't that popular. I bet the movie drove more people to the book than vice versa.
For that matter, Ghost in the Shell is a popularge media franchise--spanning books, movies, TV shows, and video games--so why are we not expecting it's fans to turn out as well?

Nay nay friend, it absolutely IS a formula that works. Just because something has a <100% success rate does not make it a failure. Why do you think studios keep casting well known (and expensive) actors to voice CGI characters? It draws in people who like those actors. Are there successful movies with unknown or less well known actors/actresses? Absolutely! Does that mean that name recognition isn't often a very big part of a movie's success? Not even close! Also, many of us have already said that we are expecting fans of GitS to turn out. We're ALSO saying that the number of GitS fans in existence is...

It's less a matter of the formula working, and more a case of C.Y.A. behavior. People care more about not being blamed for making a bad movie than they care about not making a bad movie. A big name star shields you from criticism. "How was I to know it would stink? It has Hunk McStarface in it!"

Here's an article by an actual movie producer that makes a case against star power.

And yeah, I agree, GitS has a smaller fan base than Star Wars. But does it have a smaller fan base than the Hunger Games book (pre-movie)?


Rysky wrote:
Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Pan wrote:
its hard to tell from his augments but isn't Batou also Japanese?

hmm, don't know. He did serve with the US Army Rangers and other than the name/title of Batou I don't think they really go into his history.

Wiki says he served in the JSDF.
It also says he served in the US Army Rangers.

I can't see that. It says that he served in the Rangers in the JSDF. It says the badge he wore indicates he may have been a sergeant in the "Army Rangers", and the actual rangers he used to serve with, guys with the same sort of eyes, were in Section 4. I don't know if the badge in question is an American Army Rangers badge or if this is a GITS-verse Japanese version. I cannot see that he served in the American Army Rangers anywhere.


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
But does it have a smaller fan base than the Hunger Games book (pre-movie)?

World-wide not sure but here in America I would say probably. If I wasn't enough of an anime fan to watch Toonami and Adult Swim then I wouldn't have really ever heard of GitS but I heard lots of people talk about the Hunger Games books. Era might also have been a feature early 90's vs mid 2000's so less internet and more of what was right in my face on TV.


Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Pan wrote:
its hard to tell from his augments but isn't Batou also Japanese?

hmm, don't know. He did serve with the US Army Rangers and other than the name/title of Batou I don't think they really go into his history.

Wiki says he served in the JSDF.
It also says he served in the US Army Rangers.
I can't see that. It says that he served in the Rangers in the JSDF. It says the badge he wore indicates he may have been a sergeant in the "Army Rangers", and the actual rangers he used to serve with, guys with the same sort of eyes, were in Section 4. I don't know if the badge in question is an American Army Rangers badge or if this is a GITS-verse Japanese version. I cannot see that he served in the American Army Rangers anywhere.

Would he have been in military service before World War 3? In the GitS universe, the U.S. wasn't around by the time Stand Alone Complex started, and Japan was allied with the American Empire.

Community & Digital Content Director

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Locking for now until we can fully review. The discourse over the last couple of pages is way too elevated, and I think this thread needs a break over the long weekend before discussion can resume.

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