Roll for knowledge...but i already faced this thing once.


Pathfinder Society

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Shadow Lodge 4/5

Things I run as common DC's: most animals of medium size, low-cr Bestiary 1 undead, low-cr giants, imps, babaus, dretches, animated objects, 0-hd humanoids, centaurs + other civilized near-humanoids and haunts(eat me, I've heard it all).

Should probably add chromatic dragons to that list, but maybe common isn't the correct word there. DC -5 for being infamous?

4/5 *

This is why my first proposal was "Pathfinders with knowledge skills know stuff". ;)

There's so much table variation on this, and some GMs use it as a tool to forbid player actions, while other players just use the information they don't know anyway. The system doesn't work without silly consequences like, "I don't know about monsters I've already fought" or "I rolled a one so can't recognize a goblin" or what have you.

How about this: Any Pathfinder with (skill ranks=level) in a Knowledge skill can auto-identify any creature with CR<=level which appears in a legal book they own and have present (similar to the way rules and additional resources works). Max ranks? You know everything about every creature you have the AR for.

Still doesn't address the memory issue, but at least if you id something once, you know the same information the next time you see it (i.e. all of the information).

5/5 5/55/55/5

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GM Lamplighter wrote:

This is why my first proposal was "Pathfinders with knowledge skills know stuff". ;)

pathfinders with knowledge skills already do know stuff. Their system kinda works.

Pathfinders without knowledge skills should have some experience to know stuff, thats the oddity being pointed out.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The counter-argument is "well, if you fought a lot of undead last level, maybe you should put a rank into knowledge (religion) when you level up." Some RPG systems even do something similar to this, you gain increased proficiency in a skill by using a skill.

The problem is PCs who have 2+Int classes (and no reason to have a high Int) won't want to put skill points into knowledge skills, especially if they are not class skills.

The main pieces of advice I tend to give myself when making PFS PCs is:

1: Don't take many levels in classes that give 2+Int ranks unless Int is their primary attribute. (Yes, I break this rule every so often, my dragon disciple PC being and example. But as a counter-example, I started a character intending to be a fighter, but ended up multiclassing as an inquisitor instead.)

2: Put at least 1 rank into every class skill as soon as possible, unless there is a reason not to, such as a very honest PC not having ranks in bluff of a naive one not having ranks in sense motive.

Not saying that if you break these guidelines you are having badwrongfun, but I find my PCs better able to contribute more consistently when I follow them.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

There is also (I want say pathfinder society primer, but it may be the other one). That has a whole chapter on stuff "every pathfinder is taught"

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Field Guide's section "Field Guide".

3/5

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I found DMs are more accepting of past character experience if you deliver it in character: It is a swarm, Janira told me all about fighting these during my Confirmation!

And small to mid size lodges help, when the DM was a player in your party the last time you fought yeti.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Muser wrote:
Field Guide's section "Field Guide".

Thanks. I knew it was one of them.


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Jared Thaler wrote:
There is also (I want say pathfinder society primer, but it may be the other one). That has a whole chapter on stuff "every pathfinder is taught"

Except there's no mechanical effect of that.

Unless you're going to cite it as a requirement to burn all a low-skill classes skill points in those basic skills.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

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thejeff wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
There is also (I want say pathfinder society primer, but it may be the other one). That has a whole chapter on stuff "every pathfinder is taught"

Except there's no mechanical effect of that.

Unless you're going to cite it as a requirement to burn all a low-skill classes skill points in those basic skills.

The fluff is the mechanic.

"Well, I don't know what this is, but it looks like a swarm. My training said hit swarms with area effect. "

Functionally it has the same mechanical effect as the briefing you receive at the beginning of the scenario. If the briefing said "Oh, and by the way, if you run into undead, you might want to have some holy water to throw at them" and the party ran into a bunch of skeletons, you wouldn't make them make a knowledge check to know that holy water would hurt them.

4/5 *

You might recall details about something you fought last time - in the bar, chatting with friends, in no danger. Or, as a player, at a game table where time stops between initiative counts, again in no danger. Being able to do it as a character in the one second of game time between seeing it and your turn is represented by having ranks in knowledge skills. If you want to identify monsters, put your skills there. The experience you gain as a character is represented by (among other things) the skill points you get per level.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

So for example, here is what the society tells it's agents about undead.

Quote:


A cleric’s healing spells, the channel energy class ability, and feats like Turn Undead are the best bets against the horrors of the restless dead. Other classes can help as well, particularly those who choose to focus their areas of expertise on slaying undead— paladins, rangers with undead as their favored enemy, and necromancers are obvious candidates for these rolls (sic).

Against the restless dead, one should avoid using mind-affecting effects or attacks that require Fortitude saves (such as poison). Rumors that all undead can take devastating blows without harm are false—a well-placed blow to an undead’s body can be just as critical as one placed against a living foe. Incorporeal undead like ghosts and wraiths pose a significant challenge, as nonmagical attacks have little effect on these bodiless monsters. Against such foes, ghost touch weapons and force effects work best, but for agents on a budget, ample supplies of holy water work wonders.

So if your character runs into something that looks like it is undead, these would be reasonable assumptions for your character to make.

It would also be entirely reasonable for your character to be very rudely surprised when

Voices in the void:

they find out the skeleton T-rex they are fighting is an articulated anatomical model that has had animate object cast on it...

4/5 *

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sidebar for PFS 2.0:
When the campaign reboots (whenever that is), I'd love to see this sort of bonus to Knowledge skills put into the differences between the Spells/Scrolls/Swords, and also between Pathfinder School and Field Commission agents. Perhaps with traits, or perhaps like archetypes that could overlay any class. I think there is some design space here to give everyone some bonuses like skill ranks or the like that make sense, that still respect the balance of characters and skilled characters. Maybe someone who is a Pathfinder School agent gets X free ranks in the Knowledge skills, and a Field Commission agent gets X free ranks in a different list of skills, or different starting gold, or something. (Not balanced - just an example.)

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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GM Lamplighter wrote:

You might recall details about something you fought last time - in the bar, chatting with friends, in no danger. Or, as a player, at a game table where time stops between initiative counts, again in no danger. Being able to do it as a character in the one second of game time between seeing it and your turn is represented by having ranks in knowledge skills. If you want to identify monsters, put your skills there. The experience you gain as a character is represented by (among other things) the skill points you get per level.

That's one heck of an artificial distinction, though, unsupported by any rules text--which suggests it's an attempt to rationalize what is in my opinion an overreliance on knowledge skills. It implicitly limits 2+int skill classes that aren't int-based to the realm of buffoons who can't adequately learn from experience.


GM Lamplighter wrote:
You might recall details about something you fought last time - in the bar, chatting with friends, in no danger. Or, as a player, at a game table where time stops between initiative counts, again in no danger. Being able to do it as a character in the one second of game time between seeing it and your turn is represented by having ranks in knowledge skills. If you want to identify monsters, put your skills there. The experience you gain as a character is represented by (among other things) the skill points you get per level.

Does this apply only between scenarios? If I fight something at the start of a scenario and learn something about it, can I apply that knowledge during a later encounter in the same scenario? Or is that also only represented by knowledge skills?

Cause, as far as I know, that's not any kind of an official rule. Within scenarios or without. Personal experience trumps the abstract learning represented by knowledge skills. If you've dealt with it yourself, you know it. The problem with PFS is that no one else knows what scenarios you've been in, so it's hard to adjudicate what you already know.

4/5 *

Well, your character's knowledge has to be based on something - I suggest it's based on their stats. If the character doesn't have ranks in Knowledge skills, the player has chosen to not make them able to remember stuff like that. Just because you as a player can remember, is irrelevant. I as a player work out, do I get a free Con boost? I know karate, do I get unarmed strike for free? Of course not. If I watch the party monk fight, do I also get to use Unarmed Strike? Of course not.

Also - recall that you can use Knowledge skills untrained up to DC 10, which means skeletons, goblins, etc. are all within reach. Maybe all that is needed is a way to determine what creatures should be common enough (for Pathfinders) to be DC5+CR. Also, some clarity that class levels don't factor into this - a troll fighter-5 is no harder to id than a troll, and you shouldn't get class info from a Knowledge roll anyway. Similarly, if you can identify a CR1 skeleton, you should still have that info when you see a CR10 giant advanced dinosaur skeleton or whatever.

The Exchange 3/5

I think it is just easiest to say you know what your knowledge check gave you. If you actually learned something about identifying creatures it be represented in your skill ranks.

I also don't want to devalue the boon to those who have it.

I wouldn't be opposed to knowledge skill checks getting revisited though for rules clarification. It be great to have a clear system for letting PCs know relevant information about a specific monster or there being a standard DC to know the creature's subtype and the traits associated with that subtype at the very least.

4/5 *

thejeff wrote:
Cause, as far as I know, that's not any kind of an official rule. Within scenarios or without. Personal experience trumps the abstract learning represented by knowledge skills. If you've dealt with it yourself, you know it. The problem with PFS is that no one else knows what scenarios you've been in, so it's hard to adjudicate what you already know.

Actually, the rule is that to identify a creature, you need to roll the appropriate Knowledge skill. Full stop - there is no RAW beyond that. Now, an argument could be made that once you roll to identify it, you should get all the info you know about that creature before for free... but that isn't what is being suggested here.


GM Lamplighter wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Cause, as far as I know, that's not any kind of an official rule. Within scenarios or without. Personal experience trumps the abstract learning represented by knowledge skills. If you've dealt with it yourself, you know it. The problem with PFS is that no one else knows what scenarios you've been in, so it's hard to adjudicate what you already know.
Actually, the rule is that to identify a creature, you need to roll the appropriate Knowledge skill. Full stop - there is no RAW beyond that. Now, an argument could be made that once you roll to identify it, you should get all the info you know about that creature before for free... but that isn't what is being suggested here.

So full stop.

You get in a fight with trolls. Your bard makes his roll and yells out "Burn them". You do and you win, but the bard goes down.
On the way out, dragging the bard behind you, you're attacked by more trolls. No one else makes the roll. No excuse to use fire, right? You've got no idea what these things are or how to fight them.

As for your other argument - if you're running on the "full stop" version, that argument completely fails. The RAW beyond identification spells out what info you get - one useful piece and one for every 5 pts you make the check by. No RAW justification for remembering more than that by making the know roll.

4/5 *

Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.


GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.

As I said, because of the particular weirdnesses of PFS.

But there's no actual change in the knowledge rules for PFS. Officially they work the same as they do in a home game.

The Exchange 3/5

thejeff wrote:

You get in a fight with trolls. Your bard makes his roll and yells out "Burn them". You do and you win, but the bard goes down.

On the way out, dragging the bard behind you, you're attacked by more trolls. No one else makes the roll. No excuse to use fire, right? You've got no idea what these things are or how to fight them.

As for your other argument - if you're running on the "full stop" version, that argument completely fails. The RAW beyond identification spells out what info you get - one useful piece and one for every 5 pts you make the check by. No RAW justification for remembering more than that by making the know roll.

I just want to point out that if the bard had told you both fire and acid worked and you had used acid to kill them you would be disappointed and confused if the next troll to show up was a Moss Troll (which doesn't have regen shut off by acid.)

Your character just doesn't know how to properly identify an enemy beyond what he has been trained to do as represented by his skill check.

5/5 5/55/55/5

All of a pathfinders arrows should be cold iron after level 1.

Half of them should be cold iron with a silver blanche.

Just because you don't know its a demon doesn't mean you can't tell its not from around here.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.

So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.

The Exchange 3/5

Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.

I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."


Ragoz wrote:
thejeff wrote:

You get in a fight with trolls. Your bard makes his roll and yells out "Burn them". You do and you win, but the bard goes down.

On the way out, dragging the bard behind you, you're attacked by more trolls. No one else makes the roll. No excuse to use fire, right? You've got no idea what these things are or how to fight them.

As for your other argument - if you're running on the "full stop" version, that argument completely fails. The RAW beyond identification spells out what info you get - one useful piece and one for every 5 pts you make the check by. No RAW justification for remembering more than that by making the know roll.

I just want to point out that if the bard had told you both fire and acid worked and you had used acid to kill them you would be disappointed and confused if the next troll to show up was a Moss Troll (which doesn't have regen shut off by acid.)

Your character just doesn't know how to properly identify an enemy beyond what he has been trained to do as represented by his skill check.

I had hoped it was apparent from the setup that it was in fact more trolls from the same group.

Moss trolls don't normally live with regular trolls and are sufficiently different that I wouldn't even expect to recognize them as trolls without a check - even if I'd just fought trolls.


Ragoz wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.
I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."

Seriously? "I worship this god, but I can't even recognize my own holy symbol."

The Exchange 3/5

thejeff wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.
I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."
Seriously? "I worship this god, but I can't even recognize my own holy symbol."

Nobody said you were a very good follower.

4/5 *

thejeff wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.
I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."
Seriously? "I worship this god, but I can't even recognize my own holy symbol."

Yep. Welcome to RAW. Now, in a home campaign, I would say that it would be a common identification, so you could make an untrained roll to do it. But PFS is RAW, and while RAW is used to hamstring GMs hundreds of times a day, here's an instance where it hamstrings PCs.

By the way, most peasant worshipers in the middle ages probably couldn't identify trappings of one denomination over another, either. They'd likely recognize the local variant they use in their church, but not all the trappings of the religion.

1/5

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expect table variation OP


GM Lamplighter wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.
I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."
Seriously? "I worship this god, but I can't even recognize my own holy symbol."

Yep. Welcome to RAW. Now, in a home campaign, I would say that it would be a common identification, so you could make an untrained roll to do it. But PFS is RAW, and while RAW is used to hamstring GMs hundreds of times a day, here's an instance where it hamstrings PCs.

By the way, most peasant worshipers in the middle ages probably couldn't identify trappings of one denomination over another, either. They'd likely recognize the local variant they use in their church, but not all the trappings of the religion.

So are you going to start insisting that Perception be run Raw as well.

4/5 *

I don't understand your question. As a PFS GM, I insist that everything be run "RAW", and I then interpret the areas where "RAW" is not specific enough to play the game. Hopefully, that's what every PFS GM does.

The Exchange 5/5

GM Lamplighter wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.
I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."
Seriously? "I worship this god, but I can't even recognize my own holy symbol."

Yep. Welcome to RAW. Now, in a home campaign, I would say that it would be a common identification, so you could make an untrained roll to do it. But PFS is RAW, and while RAW is used to hamstring GMs hundreds of times a day, here's an instance where it hamstrings PCs.

By the way, most peasant worshipers in the middle ages probably couldn't identify trappings of one denomination over another, either. They'd likely recognize the local variant they use in their church, but not all the trappings of the religion.

bolding mine...

This statement is - ah - complicated. It is both true, and not. Depending on what you mean by "trapping of one denomination over another".

In the early-to-mid 1600s in Germany, the average "peasant worshiper" could easily tell Catholics from Calvinist from Lutherans, (much better than we can now) and in fact would often be able to tell the difference between the more "fringe" groups such as Anabaptist (modern day Mennonites for example). Not even going to mention recognizing Jewish religious trappings... or Muslim.

But by the same note, the early Portuguese expeditions around Africa mistook Hindu/Buddhist temples as being Christian (they were looking for Prester John, a legendary Christian patriarch and king popular in European chronicles and tradition from the 12th through the 17th century. He was said to rule over a Nestorian (Church of the East) Christian nation lost amid the Muslims and pagans of the Orient).

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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GM Lamplighter wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Are you sure they're trolls? Because they all look alike. In a situation like this, I'd call them "common" for the party based on recency, and allow untrained skill checks (even beyond DC10) to identify them. But that's within a scenario. Tracking what you recall between scenarios is much more problematic.
So... how do you handle worship of obscure deities? Without the ability to form memories or bring in outside information, that seems to require a DC 20 Knowledge: Religion check. That's awfully hard to hit at low level.
I'm sure the answer to this should be "As written. Indeed it does. Yeah probably for most characters."
Seriously? "I worship this god, but I can't even recognize my own holy symbol."

Yep. Welcome to RAW. Now, in a home campaign, I would say that it would be a common identification, so you could make an untrained roll to do it. But PFS is RAW, and while RAW is used to hamstring GMs hundreds of times a day, here's an instance where it hamstrings PCs.

By the way, most peasant worshipers in the middle ages probably couldn't identify trappings of one denomination over another, either. They'd likely recognize the local variant they use in their church, but not all the trappings of the religion.

Here are some other questions for you--have you had a chance to play the Rats of Round Mountain series?

Rats of Round Mountain:
Especially on a straight playthrough? Remember, there are no special rules stating that characters would remember any more between those two scenarios than they would any other scenario, so RAW, they should forget everything from Part 1.

Questions:
1. Would the characters remember that they fought a dragon? Particularly if they drove her off but did not kill her, in which case they do not get the boon which in your reading would seem to be the only way to remember something across scenarios.

2. Would the characters remember they're in the Hao Jin Tapestry without a knowledge planes check? Remember, it is is spelled out clearly in the lead-in to part 1, but what happened in part 1 is not a valid thing to recall in part 2 by your reading. Identifying the current plane you are on is a DC 15 Knowledge: Planes check, which also amusingly enough makes recognition that you are on the material plane a little dicey for most characters, even those who know what it is and could tell you all about it with the DC 10 check.

3. Would the characters remember their mission briefing? Remember, Part 2 of the scenario explicitly says the characters do not get a mission briefing if they have played part 1 straight through.

4. Would the characters remember that they are in a mountain, called Round Mountain? And would they recognize the temple? Remember, it's a Knowledge: Geography DC 20 check to know and identify the nearest settlement, and the mission briefing was in the last scenario, not this one. That leads to some more hilarity...

Sky Key Solution:

A final question. In the Sky Key Solution, everyone starts in Bloodwatered Meadow, an open field beyond the walls of Absalom. It is a DC 20 Knowledge: Geography check, to know what the nearest settlement of note is. There's no RAW on any modifiers, DC 5 common cities or otherwise. You could give people a bonus on the check for it being a dumb check but a +10 modifier is absurdly high.

5. Before you get to the box text describing the location, do the PCs recognize that they are just outside of Absalom without making the K: Geography check?

(Presumably the box text information would be assumed to be common knowledge once spoken.)

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

BigNorseWolf wrote:

All of a pathfinders arrows should be cold iron after level 1.

Half of them should be cold iron with a silver blanche.

Just because you don't know its a demon doesn't mean you can't tell its not from around here.

Why only half? It's 5 sp per arrow. stop being cheep and make it all.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

All of a pathfinders arrows should be cold iron after level 1.

Half of them should be cold iron with a silver blanche.

Just because you don't know its a demon doesn't mean you can't tell its not from around here.

Why only half? It's 5 sp per arrow. stop being cheep and make it all.

The blanch is 5 gp per 10 ammo or 2gp +1 silver piece per cold iron arrow for the "I don't know what plane your frombut this is gonna hurt" special.

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

All of a pathfinders arrows should be cold iron after level 1.

Half of them should be cold iron with a silver blanche.

Just because you don't know its a demon doesn't mean you can't tell its not from around here.

Why only half? It's 5 sp per arrow. stop being cheep and make it all.

The blanch is 5 gp per 10 ammo or 2gp +1 silver piece per cold iron arrow for the "I don't know what plane your frombut this is gonna hurt" special.

ok, I guess I'm showing my non-martial roots here, but I don't understand this at all.

BNW, what are you talking about?
...the "I don't know what plane your frombut this is gonna hurt" special...

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

All of a pathfinders arrows should be cold iron after level 1.

Half of them should be cold iron with a silver blanche.

Just because you don't know its a demon doesn't mean you can't tell its not from around here.

Why only half? It's 5 sp per arrow. stop being cheep and make it all.

The blanch is 5 gp per 10 ammo or 2gp +1 silver piece per cold iron arrow for the "I don't know what plane your frombut this is gonna hurt" special.

I think your math is wrong

Cold iron arrow = 2gp / 20
silver blanch x2 (20 arrows) = 10 gp.

= 12gp / 20 = 6sp (including cold iron)

7 sp for crossbow bolts.

Now what half of your arrows really should be is blunt.

The Exchange 5/5

Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

All of a pathfinders arrows should be cold iron after level 1.

Half of them should be cold iron with a silver blanche.

Just because you don't know its a demon doesn't mean you can't tell its not from around here.

Why only half? It's 5 sp per arrow. stop being cheep and make it all.

The blanch is 5 gp per 10 ammo or 2gp +1 silver piece per cold iron arrow for the "I don't know what plane your frombut this is gonna hurt" special.

I think your math is wrong

Cold iron arrow = 2gp / 20
silver blanch x2 (20 arrows) = 10 gp.

= 12gp / 20 = 6sp (including cold iron)

7 sp for crossbow bolts.

Now what half of your arrows really should be is blunt.

can you have silver blanched, cold iron blunt arrows? or do blunt arrows have wooden tips?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Actually, weapon blanches can be applied to wooden weapons. Weird.

The Exchange 5/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Actually, weapon blanches can be applied to wooden weapons. Weird.

But then they would just be silver blanched wooden arrow, and not cold iron right?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Starfinder Superscriber
GM Lamplighter wrote:
I don't understand your question. As a PFS GM, I insist that everything be run "RAW", and I then interpret the areas where "RAW" is not specific enough to play the game. Hopefully, that's what every PFS GM does.

Not me. Honestly, I find your stance on knowledge skills to be utterly absurd and completely un-fun.

Party pulling the unconscious bard out and runs into more things that look like trolls? Of freaking COURSE they can know to burn them. How do they know they're the same thing? Well, if they aren't, won't they be surprised when burning doesn't help?

Also -- my character has met a Chaos Beast. Had a bad experience. Next time she meets one, she doesn't have to make a knowledge roll to tell the other players, "OMG, these are nasty, they do this particularly nasty thing to you." It's not remembering a detail; it's a traumatic experience that makes an impression.

I absolutely will not stick to RAW -- really, what you are asserting is RAW -- as GM in situations like this, because it's absurd. Because that kind of thing makes me want to throw my hands up and say, well, hell, if we're just playing boardgames with gamepieces let's do that, instead of pretending we're playing a roleplaying game with a character that can grow and evolve (not just in stats, but as a person). Because if we played a wargame, we'd probably get a much better wargame rules set than Pathfinder is.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Thanks gang, I needed a good laugh.

4/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Terminalmancer wrote:
Here are some other questions for you--

Luckily, the game has a GM, who can make these case-by-case decisions to allow Knowledge to carry over from scenario to scenario when it's appropriate (like in your example), or provide more information when it serves the story.

For the record, my motto as a GM is "more lore". In my opinion, the more information the players have about the story, the characters, the backstory, the locations, the more lief Golarion can take on for them. This is why my proposals both try to provide *more* information, not less.

4/5 *

2 people marked this as a favorite.
rknop wrote:
Also -- my character has met a Chaos Beast.

This is one example where a Knowledge check makes sense, since chaos beasts don't look the same, ever.

prd wrote:
A chaos beast's form changes without any goal or purpose.

How could you know that the black, tarry, barrel-shaped mass with dozens of clawed arms you face now, has the exact same properties as the bright orange, sweet-smelling lump of protoplasm with tentacles you had a bad experience with last week? Under RAW, with a Knowledge check, that's how.

rknop wrote:
I absolutely will not stick to RAW -- really, what you are asserting is RAW -- as GM in situations like this, because it's absurd.

PFS GMs have to stick to RAW, and that's why I'm proposing that RAW for PFS changes when it comes to monster ID.

Believe it or not, we're both on the same side here. I feel the monster ID rules need an overhaul to provide more info, not less. But I also believe that the rules should reflect that, not be something that some GMs ignore and others hold to the letter to withhold information.

If we're Pathfinders (even field-commissioned ones), we all hang out in a place with libraries full of Bestiaries, and bars full of more experienced agents, whose sole purpose in life is to SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES. ID'ing monsters should provide a lot more information than it does, and be something that is almost automatic, in my opinion. Some GMs use it to prevent players from using appropriate tactics, because the current rules allow for this. I don't like that.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Actually, weapon blanches can be applied to wooden weapons. Weird.

Not that unrealistic. Wood is less flammable than you'd think.

1/5

Just out of curiosity, where is it written (RAW) that characters in PFS don't retain monster knowledge from scenario to scenario? Yes, I know there is that boon from 2014, but is it actually written that characters cannot retain knowledge?

Sovereign Court 1/5

N N 959 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, where is it written (RAW) that characters in PFS don't retain monster knowledge from scenario to scenario? Yes, I know there is that boon from 2014, but is it actually written that characters cannot retain knowledge?

You're just going to get a mix of "If it doesn't say you can remember things, you can't" and "omg you can't possibly recognize that it's the same type of creature you've seen before" from a certain crowd.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Probably the same place it says you can't drink a potion underwater.

4/5 ****

ARG wrote:
Unlike a potion that is drunk from a vial, a potion sponge can be used underwater.

Thanks TOZ, now I'll have to go burn my ARG again.

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