My Fix:
No duration to Brute, it already has weakness that it fatigues same amount of time after (plus can't be immune unlike Barbarian).
Temp hp x2 Class level while in Brute (these refresh if come back to Brute after 10 minutes from reverting)
Instead of Good Will save: Good Reflex/Fort, it supposed to have bad will like Monks.
However, Give it a class feature that grant +1 Will saves every 1/4th level starting at 4th (so 4, 8, 12, 16, 20) resulting in +5 at 20. This represents he gets better at controlling himself and his Mind as time goes by.
While I like the NA idea, not sure with the 1/4th starting at 1. How about at 1st and every 5 thereafter,(1st, 5, 10, 15, 20).
And so I will defend to the death that the Brute archetype is meant for NPCs/Antagonists, not Player Characters.
Then why going that far with it? That's like expanding the Adept even if it's an NPC class.
Anyway, let's recap:
- The Brute has +6 for a Will Save by 20th level, because of Brutish Fortitude.
- Iron Will adds +2 to Will Saves
- A Cloak of Resistance adds up to +5 to saves
- A defiant weapon would help, up to +5 for non-epic levels. However... 1) it would have to be a gauntlet to take advantage of the unarmed strike and 2) it's a bit unclear if defiant would apply to that condition. Is it a mind-affecting effect?
- Your character would need a good Wisdom score, say 20, for +5.
6 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 = +23 for a Will Save by 20th level... and you would need to roll 7 or higher.
Furthermore, if you're in a party of 4, you included, the other 3 can Aid Other for +6 to the Will Save.
23 + 6 = +29 for a Will Save by 20th level... and you would need to roll 2 or higher.
Because not everyone can afford expensive magic items and start the game at level 20?
And you can still roll a 1 and try to kill your teammates.
A Wand of Calm Emotions is affordable, or the actual spell would be, and yes, that would be an alternate solution. If the Brute's Will Save is low, that shouldn't be a problem.
Hey, I keep thinking that the Brute Form is like the Barbarian's Rage, so...
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Because not everyone can afford expensive magic items and start the game at level 20?
And you can still roll a 1 and try to kill your teammates.
A Wand of Calm Emotions is affordable, or the actual spell would be, and yes, that would be an alternate solution. If the Brute's Will Save is low, that shouldn't be a problem.
Hey, I keep thinking that the Brute Form is like the Barbarian's Rage, so...
While CE will prevent violent actions, there's nothing to indicate that it would automatically undue the Brute form.
That and your basically paying extra for an item to keep you from killing your party members, or a tax on them to keep you from killing them.
Because not everyone can afford expensive magic items and start the game at level 20?
And you can still roll a 1 and try to kill your teammates.
A Wand of Calm Emotions is affordable, or the actual spell would be, and yes, that would be an alternate solution. If the Brute's Will Save is low, that shouldn't be a problem.
Hey, I keep thinking that the Brute Form is like the Barbarian's Rage, so...
While CE will prevent violent actions, there's nothing to indicate that it would automatically undue the Brute form.
That and your basically paying extra for an item to keep you from killing your party members, or a tax on them to keep you from killing them.
Dude, the Brute Form is at 99,99% identical to a Barbarian's Rage.
"Allies can use the aid another action to assist this saving throw with skills like Diplomacy, as they attempt to calm him down."
The concept is based on the Hulk, who turns green when he's angry. You cannot be THAT more straightforward with the Brute here. Come on now.
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Guys, frenzied rages that force you to attack everything standing (even your allies) are not a drawback, they are a feature. :)Meh... Intentionally poorly designed rules are still poorly designed.And I don't see it as poorly designed. It's an archetype that causes the character to transform and try to kill everything around that. And that's exactly what it does.
Just because it doesn't get buffed up to "offset" the whole kill everything around mode doesn't make it bad. It just makes it party unfriendly.
It's obviously intended to be a viable and (supposedly) balanced PC option... But it's really bad, so it's poorly designed.
Your argument is Like saying the Warrior would be a good PC class because it technically does what's meant to do (wield swords and wear heavy armor).
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Because not everyone can afford expensive magic items and start the game at level 20?
And you can still roll a 1 and try to kill your teammates.
A Wand of Calm Emotions is affordable, or the actual spell would be, and yes, that would be an alternate solution. If the Brute's Will Save is low, that shouldn't be a problem.
Hey, I keep thinking that the Brute Form is like the Barbarian's Rage, so...
While CE will prevent violent actions, there's nothing to indicate that it would automatically undue the Brute form.
That and your basically paying extra for an item to keep you from killing your party members, or a tax on them to keep you from killing them.
Dude, the Brute Form is at 99,99% identical to a Barbarian's Rage.
"Allies can use the aid another action to assist this saving throw with skills like Diplomacy, as they attempt to calm him down."
The concept is based on the Hulk, who turns green when he's angry. You cannot be THAT more straightforward with the Brute here. Come on now.
It is nothing like the Barbarian's rage. And just because it says allies can help calm him down doesn't automatically mean a spell with the word calm automatically undoes it.
This spell calms agitated creatures. You have no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling. Creatures so affected cannot take violent actions (although they can defend themselves) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.
This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses granted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, and also negates a bard's ability to inspire courage or a barbarian's rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell, condition, or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
It specifically calls out what abilities it suppresses. Mainly, Morale effects. Brute Form is not a Morale effect.
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Guys, frenzied rages that force you to attack everything standing (even your allies) are not a drawback, they are a feature. :)Meh... Intentionally poorly designed rules are still poorly designed.And I don't see it as poorly designed. It's an archetype that causes the character to transform and try to kill everything around that. And that's exactly what it does.
Just because it doesn't get buffed up to "offset" the whole kill everything around mode doesn't make it bad. It just makes it party unfriendly.
It's obviously intended to be a viable and (supposedly) balanced PC option... But it's really bad, so it's poorly designed.
Your argument is Like saying the Warrior would be a good PC class because it technically does what's meant to do (wield swords and wear heavy armor).
You think it's obviously a PC option, I think it's obviously an NPC option.
And your second statement is nonsense and nothing like anything I've said, don't try and put statements in my mouth.
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That's like saying that you cannot use Calm Emotions to calm down an angry regular person, because "being angry" doesn't grant morale bonuses...
Yes, this will stop Brute from attacking you guys, but not revert you back.
Perfect, we found the way to protect the allies without needing to turn back, yay!
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That's like saying that you cannot use Calm Emotions to calm down an angry regular person, because "being angry" doesn't grant morale bonuses...
You can use it to calm down an angry person, including a Brute. It just doesn't automatically remove the Brute status. No more than it would automatically remove an Alhemists Mutagen.
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You think it's obviously a PC option, I think it's obviously an NPC option.Guys, frenzied rages that force you to attack everything standing (even your allies) are not a drawback, they are a feature. :)Meh... Intentionally poorly designed rules are still poorly designed.And I don't see it as poorly designed. It's an archetype that causes the character to transform and try to kill everything around that. And that's exactly what it does.
Just because it doesn't get buffed up to "offset" the whole kill everything around mode doesn't make it bad. It just makes it party unfriendly.
It's obviously intended to be a viable and (supposedly) balanced PC option... But it's really bad, so it's poorly designed.
Your argument is Like saying the Warrior would be a good PC class because it technically does what's meant to do (wield swords and wear heavy armor).
Then why there's nothing indicating that to be the case and is, in fact, side by side with other options meant for PCs?
Just because it's a crappy option, doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to be good and used by PCs, but poorly designed.
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You think it's obviously a PC option, I think it's obviously an NPC option.Guys, frenzied rages that force you to attack everything standing (even your allies) are not a drawback, they are a feature. :)Meh... Intentionally poorly designed rules are still poorly designed.And I don't see it as poorly designed. It's an archetype that causes the character to transform and try to kill everything around that. And that's exactly what it does.
Just because it doesn't get buffed up to "offset" the whole kill everything around mode doesn't make it bad. It just makes it party unfriendly.
It's obviously intended to be a viable and (supposedly) balanced PC option... But it's really bad, so it's poorly designed.
Your argument is Like saying the Warrior would be a good PC class because it technically does what's meant to do (wield swords and wear heavy armor).
Then why there's nothing indicating that to be the case and is, in fact, side by side with other options meant for PCs?
Just because it's a crappy option, doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to be good and used by PCs, but poorly designed.
Or maybe designed just fine, and players and GMs are just supposed to exhibit common sense.
Yes, this will stop Brute from attacking you guys, but not revert you back.
Perfect, we found the way to protect the allies without needing to turn back, yay!
A Brute reverts back to his social identity once he calms down, just like if he would have succeeded his Will Save.
Without traits, it takes 1 minute to revert back, but with talents it can be as short as 1 move action.
Still, if reverting a Brute back avoids you the trouble of remaking a character, I'll take it.
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Or maybe designed just fine, and players and GMs are just supposed to exhibit common sense.
Yeah... No. GMs could already use a lycanthrope template for the same effect. Or just roleplay the character as having multiple personalities or whatever. Even if it's just for NPCs, that's still no reason to make the archetype this bad.
There's no reason to make excuses for the designer's mistakes. One of them did a bad job. It happens. This archetype is obviously meant to allow players to play "The Hulk"... So either they failed to make it effective (which means it's poorly designed) or they made it weak on purpose but decided to present it as just as effective as all other classes and archetypes (which means they are bad designers).
To me, it's pretty clear that someone simply made a mistake and accidentally made this archetype really crappy.
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Yes, this will stop Brute from attacking you guys, but not revert you back.
Perfect, we found the way to protect the allies without needing to turn back, yay!A Brute reverts back to his social identity once he calms down, just like if he would have succeeded his Will Save.
Without traits, it takes 1 minute to revert back, but with talents it can be as short as 1 move action.
Still, if reverting a Brute back avoids you the trouble of remaking a character, I'll take it.
No, he reverts back only once he makes his save, not just by being calm. You're applying too much to a spell and having the aesthetics override the mechanics. It has specifically listed what all effects it cancels out. It doesn't cancel out Brute form, it doesn't cancel out Mutagen.
Brute Form isn't a morale effect caused by a spell, it's not a fear effect, it's not confusion, it's not the bard's inspiration, and it's not the barbarian's rage. Those are all the specific effects that calm emotions cancels out.
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Or maybe designed just fine, and players and GMs are just supposed to exhibit common sense.Yeah... No. GMs could already use a lycanthrope template for the same effect. Or just roleplay the character as having multiple personalities or whatever. Even if it's just for NPCs, that's still no reason to make the archetype this bad.
There's no reason to make excuses for the designer's mistakes. One of them did a bad job. It happens. This archetype is obviously meant to allow players to play "The Hulk"... So either they failed to make it effective (which means it's poorly designed) or they made it weak on purpose but decided to present it as just as effective as all other classes and archetypes (which means they are bad designers).
To me, it's pretty clear that someone simply made a mistake and accidentally made this archetype really crappy.
No, the Hulk may have been an inspiration for the archetype but I sincerely doubt that the designers wanted to intentionally make an archetype that was a living WMD. Wher are you seeing that it's being presented as just as effective as all the other classes and archetypes?
It's an archetype that has an uncontrollable transformation as its gimmick.
You want an archetype that would skyrocket your CR and let you steamroll encounters.
The Archetype does A. Just because you also want it to do B, C, and D doesn't make it bad or an error.
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You think it's obviously a PC option, I think it's obviously an NPC option.
Aren't the NPC classes labeled as such though?
Wher are you seeing that it's being presented as just as effective as all the other classes and archetypes?
The fact that it's right in the middle of the archetype section of the book with no special qualifiers or warnings anywhere seems to suggest that it's intended to be just as functional as every other archetype.
You want an archetype that would skyrocket your CR and let you steamroll encounters.
Huh? Where did anyone say that?
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You think it's obviously a PC option, I think it's obviously an NPC option.Aren't the NPC classes labeled as such though?
Wher are you seeing that it's being presented as just as effective as all the other classes and archetypes?The fact that it's right in the middle of the archetype section of the book with no special qualifiers or warnings anywhere seems to suggest that it's intended to be just as functional as every other archetype.
You want an archetype that would skyrocket your CR and let you steamroll encounters.Huh? Where did anyone say that?
Pretty much all of this.
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@Squiggit
1) The actual NPC classes, but archetypes that are more suited for them (as introduced in Cohorts & Companions) are not.
2) again, this is where common sense of either the player or the GM should come into play.
3) pretty much everyone who's claiming that it's too weak. For everyone saying they want to play the actual Hulk.
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1) The actual NPC classes, but archetypes that are more suited for them (as introduced in Cohorts & Companions) are not.
Do you have any specific examples? I'm curious. Most of the ones I've checked tend to be in their own section or specify to some degree.
2) again, this is where common sense of either the player or the GM should come into play.
Yeah, on inspection the archetype doesn't hold up, but at a cursory glance it looks normal and it's in the same section as all the other archetypes, so if the intent is for players not to touch it, I think that should be outlined more clearly, rather than something that needs to be inferred.
3) pretty much everyone who's claiming that it's too weak. For everyone saying they want to play the actual Hulk.
There's a lot of grey area between being weak and destroying encounters singlehandedly though.
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@Squiggit
1)My bad, there not from C&C, my mind just went there due to the name.
There's Weapon Bearer Squire for Fighters.
Grooms for Rangers.
Herald Squire's for Cavaliers.
2) I don't disagree with that.
3) I don't really see how dealing damage as a large sized monk is all that weak.
I saw the archetype and thought, interesting, an uncontrollable transformation could make for some interesting stories.
Lots of other people apparently saw the uncontrollable transformation and immediately went "I want to make the Hulk!... why can't I destroy everything around me?"
*shrugs*
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There's Weapon Bearer Squire for Fighters.
Grooms for Rangers.
Herald Squire's for Cavaliers.
Well I know the squires are in a separate section of Knights of the Inner sea all about squires (and a feat to give you a squire cohort). I'm going to check other options now though.
3) I don't really see how dealing damage as a large sized monk is all that weak.
Well, the archetype does good damage, especially later on. I don't think that's the big issue with it.
Personally my biggest issue mechanically with the archetype is how squishy it is. It's a frontline combatant on a d8 with a -2 penalty to AC who can't wear armor until at least level 4. Even a dex based brute is going to be stuck with a maximum of 13 AC and maybe 10 HP at level, realistically probably lower than that.
Also not a fan of how binary the transformation is, but a lot of that is roleplaying.
That you can't use your brute BAB for feats, lose a good save (IMHO they should really have good fort and good will), can suffer from a very long lasting fatigue, that the will save is very hard to keep up with and that you lose a lot of vigilante combat options since you can't take avenger talents all hurt too.
But I don't think damage is the issue, nor do I think the archetype needs to be overpowered, but there's a lot of room for improvement I think and again, the survivability is a major factor.
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This class certainly seems like it is only fit for an NPC which is a shame because it would be a fun class to play with a few tweaks.
If the class was intended to be an NPC class it should say so in its entry.
I will attempt to point out most of the problems with the archetype without pissing on the designer. I imagine most of what I am going to say people have already thought of in part or in full. Possibly they have stuff to add?
As for what is wrong with the class it's entirely the Brute Form ability.
One: You attack your allies. No one likes this. Or rather most players don't like this.
"By Sarenrae I cast thee back to the darkest corner of the Abyss demon!"
"Arghh!"
"Good job Shazap the wonder weasel I'm so tired I can't even get angry anymore that and I'm half dead I need some healing."
"I'm much closer to death than you and that spell really took it out of me but being a follower of Sarenrae I will heal you fir..."
"Rargh rargh raghh big dumb guy want to smacky smacky!"
*Bang, crack, pow...pound, pound, pound!*
"Oh noes the cleric and the barbarian! Please not me it's already not fair I'm a chained rogue for the love of most of the core deities I haven't got a chance...arghhh!"
So there's that.
Two: How exactly do you maintain a secret identity when you know well..."argh big dumb guy not know why clothes ripped but going to smack people!"
My only solution is that you have to disguise yourself as a commoner or whatnot in your social identity pretty much all the time.
I mean going into a dungeon you could be in Brute form but that has problems of its own as I will get too shortly.
Three: You are flat footed at the start of every combat in which you transform. It would suck to be behind on initiative against a really nasty close combat monster. He moves up to you and hits you. You do nothing but transform. He full attacks you on his turn. Or you could even beat all the rogues in initiative and then do nothing on your turn but transform and still be flat footed against their attacks. Which I would assume would be obvious to them. Not only is it dangerous but it's not fun to sit there and do nothing or rather being helpless while you get screwed. (Hmm didn't word that last sentence very good.)
Four: You have no choice to transform if you fail you transform if you pass you don't. Can you choose to fail the save? Even worse in some respects is that after combat you have to transform back into your social identity. Why is that bad...see number two...and then go to number five.
Five: You are fatigued for an equal amount of time that you spent in Brute form. So if I want to avoid showing my social identity I could enter a dungeon or a place I know there is going to be a lot of combat in Brute form. Except after the first combat I have to transform back and then be fatigued for however long I spent in Brute form which has a max of two hours. So if I only get one combat for two hours and then nothing for another two hours we're good.
I can't get rid of this fatigue early in any way. If I transform again I am exhausted after the next transformation back. If I transform again I can only do it for a number of rounds equal to half my vigilante level...mean while I'm exhausted...and when those rounds run out I go unconscious.
So cleaning out an entire dungeon is problematic no matter which way you do it. For example:
Option 1: Always in social identity(I suppose disguised as a commoner). Either I don't use Brute form that combat which is the whole point I chose this archetype or I'm flat footed at the start of combat, still punching my allies afterwards and then turning back to normal at the end. Is my commoner disguise still up? The good thing about this is that I can enter a Brute form in another few rounds if nothing shows up so yeah I'm able to use Brute form again without being fatigued in a short period of time. Provided I didn't kill any of my allies or no one shows up too soon. Also it would be nice if I didn't get close to any bad guys before I transform again or I'm going to be hurting on my first round able to do anything.
Option 2: Go Brute form at the start of a dungeon or whatever and pray I get to combat before two hours is up. Provided I didn't kill my allies, then we have to hide for up to two hours so I can avoid fatigue. I probably put on a commoner disguise in case anyone sees me transform back to normal...if that even works. With any luck I don't have to squeeze into any tight spaces.
Option 3: Same as number 1 but build my character to have an obscenely good will save so I can avoid changing into the Brute until we fight a boss level encounter and the voluntarily fail the save...if that's even legal? Again I'm not getting to use the ability I am playing the class to use. Plus I have to sacrifice combat ability to get a good will save.
So it seems that the Brute takes away player choice and doesn't let you get around these limitations in anyway. You have to play this character this way which is not fun.
I don't know why this was done but I assume it's because the Brute form is thought to be super powerful? I don't think it is.
Anyways, my proposed changes are:
Eliminate the player loss of control. I can change into the Brute if I want to if I don't want to I don't. If it's in combat I am fine with the flat footed 1 round transformation but I think it would be better if he wasn't flat footed. Then he can AO people getting close to him. After combat he should be able to stay in Brute form I never punch my allies. This eliminates all the secret identity and ally punching problems.
I would also like to see that the duration of the Brute Form be extended and the amount of time per day be longer. Or lessening the fatigue effect or eliminating it all together. 1 min of fatigue sounds good.
If the loss of control must be in there then maybe when the Brute is hit with a critical he makes a save if he fails he attacks one random creature within his reach. Maybe a crit can cause him to take a save to transform into the Brute.
Also he should have access to the Nothing Can Stop Me talent. Possibly the Mad Rush one as well. Unkillable seems to be thematic too.
Again not trying to piss off the designers but as a player I feel that this archetype has significant problems.
I would love to hear the designer's thoughts. Thanks. :)
Really tired of proof reading this. Deal with my horrible grammar! :P
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Another thing is you can essentially make a better "hulk" with a master chymist amoung other classes.
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This is clearly an NPC archetype. And that NPC's name is Leroy Jenkins.
Another thing is you can essentially make a better "hulk" with a master chymist amoung other classes.
So much this.
Also, not shredding your gear when you Hulk out is a good buff. Enlarge Person is an existing effect. There was no need to so heavily nerf it.
Design Manager
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I think that defensive bonuses are an absolute must to make it work. You've got a class archetype that takes a -3 penalty to AC and can't wear armor without tearing it to shreds until it gets magic armor and spends a class feature (and even then you're only looking at light armor and stacking another -1 penalty on), and yet the Brute only has a d8 hit die and no unique options to help address the fact that he's basically a giant piece of tissue paper. Even worse, the options you'd normally look to to help start addressing these issues, like an amulet of natural armor, are competing against the items he needs to support his main strengths, like an amulet of mighty fists. It's hard not to feel like the 6 or so years of lessons learned from "please fix the Monk" threads that were finally answered in Unchained were all completely ignored/forgotten by whomever wrote this archetype.
It doesn't need to be bonuses that specifically counteract the penalties; if the class is supposed to have a low AC, give it non-AC defense options like temp HP and DR. That way it's still getting hit, it's just better able to absorb the blows. It needs something though, because good damage output (and it is only good, not great, Barbarians, Fighters, and Slayers will still easily outpace it) is not going to balance such crippling defensive penalties.
And speaking of defensive penalties... There's really no reason for the Brute to have two bad saves. I've noted this before, but thematically someone who spends so much time controlling their own inner beast should have a better than average Will save. Barbarians get a Will save when raging, the Hulk is notoriously difficult to mind control (more often enemies have to resort to manipulating the Hulk's perspective and trick him into doing something of his own volition, since his incalcuable rage makes it almost impossible to directly control his mind), and the whole concept of characters own inner demons protecting them from outside influence is an incredibly common trope.
IMO, you could give the Brute a good Will save, temp hp equal to twice his class level when he transforms that follows a dynamic similar to the Unchained Barbarian, and the Invulnerable Rager's Invulnerable class feature that gives DR equal to half class level, and you wouldn't even come close to breaking anything, though you would have a much more functional character.
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Seems like a reskinned Beastmorph Alchemist/Master Chymist just handles this concept mechanically much, much better.
Ask your GM if you can have "Brutal" Mutagen instead of Feral Mutagen that gives you Slam/Slam/Headbutt (since it's a strict downgrade, should be no problem - Claws are B/S and Bite is B/P/S), and make your "Beastmorphs" simply make you more inhuman-looking, like, I dunno, big and green...
And the fact that alchemist handles it so much better is a real shame for the class/archetype that's trying to *actually* mechanically replicate it.
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I can see it as a good NPC archtype where a mad/evil alchemist sends out shocktroops of dominated commoners who explode into hulk form when triggered.
Or it is a flawed mutagen that can actually be mass produced and has an addictive quality.
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Design Manager
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I can see it as a good NPC archtype where a mad/evil alchemist sends out shocktroops of dominated commoners who explode into hulk form when triggered.
Or it is a flawed mutagen that can actually be mass produced and has an addictive quality.
That is actually a super cool plot hook.
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Paizo's been mislabeling NPC options since the core rulebook. Seriously, how long did it take to make rouges and fighters good for more than just mooks for the party to fight?
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Design Manager
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Paizo's been mislabeling NPC options since the core rulebook. Seriously, how long did it take to make rouges and fighters good for more than just mooks for the party to fight?
I think the thing that stings is that there've been so many big steps taken to make the Fighter, Monk, and Rogue more viable, but then you have something like this that doesn't even live up to the standards of CRB only martials.
Occult Adventures came out and I immediately thought "Yes! Paizo's back and swinging for the fences! This is the best book they've written since the APG." Weaponmaster's Handbook drops and I see that they've been listening to everyone who's said the Fighter needs better and more versatile options. Unchained drops and we get a vastly improved, if not perfect, Monk and Rogue. And then.... this.
I think the Brute is probably the worst of the materials in Ultimate Intrigue, but a lot of the design in the book (not all of it) feels like two big steps backwards, and it's hard not to feel disappointed, doubly so when you've got amazing ideas that are practically unusable because the mechanics supporting them are so flawed.
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Lol...best way to search for party friendly archetypes is to see if it's banned in PFS or not. That's not always the reason an archetype is banned, but it does seem to be a common reason.
Archetypes: All archetypes in this book are legal for play except the brute, cipher, daring general, guild agent, gunmaster, hallucinist, majordomo, tyrant, warlord, zeitgeist. The interrogator alchemist archetype grants Skill Focus (Intimidate or Sense Motive) as a bonus feat instead of Extra Bombs. The metamorph alchemist archetype grants Skill Focus (Climb, Disguise, Fly, or Swim) as a bonus feat instead of Extra Bombs.
That wild rager barbarain archetype is also banned in PFS.
Though, honestly, both the wild rager and this Bruiser you keep mentioning sound really fun. I suggest building a party around the idea of uncontrollable player characters, would be a lot of laughs at worst.
Yes, this will stop Brute from attacking you guys, but not revert you back.
Perfect, we found the way to protect the allies without needing to turn back, yay!A Brute reverts back to his social identity once he calms down, just like if he would have succeeded his Will Save.
Without traits, it takes 1 minute to revert back, but with talents it can be as short as 1 move action.
Still, if reverting a Brute back avoids you the trouble of remaking a character, I'll take it.
No, he reverts back only once he makes his save, not just by being calm. You're applying too much to a spell and having the aesthetics override the mechanics. It has specifically listed what all effects it cancels out. It doesn't cancel out Brute form, it doesn't cancel out Mutagen.
Brute Form isn't a morale effect caused by a spell, it's not a fear effect, it's not confusion, it's not the bard's inspiration, and it's not the barbarian's rage. Those are all the specific effects that calm emotions cancels out.
An Alchemist's mutagen grants alchemical stats bonuses; Calm Emotions wouldn't work on a "mutagened" alchemist anyway. The guy's drugged, not emotionally unstable.
Brute Form... isn't a morale effect, because it doesn't grant any single morale bonus, not even stat modifiers due to size adjustements. However, the inspiration and game mecanics are surprisingly similar to the Barbarian's Rage. Why would I need to calm a Brute down? Because he's angry, or enraged.
Also, no, it clearly states that a Brute reverts back to normal once he's calmed down, again, like the Hulk, but when Betty calmed him down in the live-action film starring Eric Bana or when Black Widow calms the Hulk down in Age of Ultron.
While it's true that Calm Emotions doesn't dispel morale effects and such, the Brute specifically explains that he reverts back to normal if he calms down, such as via succeeding the Will Save. Furthermore, once Calm Emotions ends, the Brute would still have to save yet again to avoid transforming back into the Brute Form if "he's still in mortal peril", wasting a daily use and shortening the duration due to him being fatigued or exhausted from the previous transformation.
To me, that is simply an overlooked aspect of the Brute Form. Why doesn't the Brute have talents that 1) grants him size bonuses and 2) rage powers... is beyond me though...
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Yes, this will stop Brute from attacking you guys, but not revert you back.
Perfect, we found the way to protect the allies without needing to turn back, yay!A Brute reverts back to his social identity once he calms down, just like if he would have succeeded his Will Save.
Without traits, it takes 1 minute to revert back, but with talents it can be as short as 1 move action.
Still, if reverting a Brute back avoids you the trouble of remaking a character, I'll take it.
No, he reverts back only once he makes his save, not just by being calm. You're applying too much to a spell and having the aesthetics override the mechanics. It has specifically listed what all effects it cancels out. It doesn't cancel out Brute form, it doesn't cancel out Mutagen.
Brute Form isn't a morale effect caused by a spell, it's not a fear effect, it's not confusion, it's not the bard's inspiration, and it's not the barbarian's rage. Those are all the specific effects that calm emotions cancels out.
An Alchemist's mutagen grants alchemical stats bonuses; Calm Emotions wouldn't work on a "mutagened" alchemist anyway. The guy's drugged, not emotionally unstable.
Brute Form... isn't a morale effect, because it doesn't grant any single morale bonus, not even stat modifiers due to size adjustements. However, the inspiration and game mecanics are surprisingly similar to the Barbarian's Rage. Why would I need to calm a Brute down? Because he's angry, or enraged.
Also, no, it clearly states that a Brute reverts back to normal once he's calmed down, again, like the Hulk, but when Betty calmed him down in the live-action film starring Eric Bana or when Black Widow calms the Hulk down in Age of Ultron.
While it's true that Calm Emotions doesn't dispel morale effects and such, the Brute specifically explains that he reverts back to normal if he calms down, such as via succeeding the Will Save. Furthermore, once Calm Emotions ends, the Brute would still have to save yet again to avoid transforming back into the Brute Form if "he's still in mortal peril", wasting a daily use and shortening the duration due to him being fatigued or exhausted from the previous transformation.
To me, that is simply an overlooked aspect of the Brute Form. Why doesn't the Brute have talents that 1) grants him size bonuses and 2) rage powers... is beyond me though...
Because the Brute isn't the Barbarian under the effects of Rage. Its taking a -2 to it's AC is the only thing from a mechanical standpoint that it intersects with the barbarian.
And no, it "clearly states" that the Brute changes back when it succeeds on its Will save or after the 2 hour. Heck, there's nothing in the description that says the Brute even changes back if it gets knocked unconscious.
You're stretching to make flavor trump mechanics. Brute Form is not a Morale Effect. Calm Emotions does negate Brute Form.
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Hey, here's an unmarked NPC class: Assassin.
It's the class I always want to work better than it it does, but it's placed in the middle of PC PrCs, yet has an Evil alignment Prerq (something that's a big 'you probably really don't want this' in Core, but only elsewhere), and it's actively worse (if really cool in some ways) than pretty much anything else.
So... great for an NPC, but a bad choice for most PCs. Just kind of mixed in with the other PrCs.