Tremorsense and Spring attack


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

If i have tremorsense and spring attack, i know what square is occupied. I still have a 50% miss chance though.

Can i spring attack into that square? Do they get no AoO? No AoO if i make my 50% An AoO no matter what bc technically i cannot "target" them?

I dont think id allow someone cast say magic missile just based on tremorsense (tell me if i am wrong on that one too), so im confused by the definion of "the target of the attack" if I am using tremorsense to attack into a square.

Im leaning towards ruling i cannot spring attack and hope to get lucky, but looking for people who know RAW better than i do.

thanks in advance!


A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

I am pretty certain there is no miss chance with tremorsense.


Sadly, pin point does not help with sight. If the enemy has concealment or total concealment, it still has concealment or total concealment. Tremorsense will tell you where an invisible enemy is located, but does not let you know where to strike there body.

You can still get AoO on enemies you can't see, but with a 50% miss chance.

You can still Spring Attack as you know their location (This one I'm not entirely sure on, but I would think).

And the Magic Missle question I've never came across or even thought of... So, good luck on that one. (I'd rule in favor of player until I get more solid answers)


There's no AoO from the target when using Spring Attacking to attack the target, even if there's a miss chance from concealment.
You can't actually spring attack INTO the enemy's square, as they're occupying it. Well if you pass an acrobatics check, sure. The check won't be used to avoid an AoO in this case, just to move through enemy's square.

Magic Missile uses "Targets" to hit someone.

Aiming a Spell wrote:

Target or Targets

Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

Page 187 of Ultimate Intrigue clarified that tremorsense counts as an "Imprecise Sense".

Ultimate Intrigue wrote:
Imprecise senses allow a creature to pinpoint the location of another creature, but they don’t allow for the use of targeted effects, and attacks against those creatures are subject to miss chances from concealment. A few examples of imprecise senses are hearing, scent, blindsense, and tremorsense.

Since one doesn't actually see the target with tremorsense, magic missile wouldn't work just using tremorsense.


Fourshadow wrote:

A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

I am pretty certain there is no miss chance with tremorsense.

I'm presuming that the OP is trying to hit an unseen/invisbile creature that he knows is there via tremorsense.

Even with tremorsense, you still get a 50% miss chance when attacking someone that is unseen when you target their square.

To answer the OP's questions:

Spring attack prevents attacks of opportunity from your target -- and you are attacking the creature in the square by "attacking the square", so that is your target with a 50% miss chance.

Your target in this scenario is the creature in the square, not the square itself.

Ergo, no attack of opportunity.

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Tremorsense only allows you to target the correct square. If you don't have line-of-sight (darkness, for instance), the target has total concealment against you.

The concealment rules say that you cannot attack an opponent that has total concealment, you can only attack into their square. As such, I don't think you would benefit from Spring Attack at all.

You are right, that you cannot magic missile into total concealment.

Edit: so many ninjas.

Dark Archive

ya i am in agreement, ty all for helping me clarify thoughts. Also ultimate intrigue having tremorsense expansion is pretty neat, ty.

since you cant see a target, you cant use spring attack.


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Link2000 wrote:


You can still get AoO on enemies you can't see, but with a 50% miss chance.

You cannot take AoO's against targets you cannot see.

SRD wrote:


You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

As to the original question. The very pedantic reading of the rules is that you cannot spring attack against an invisible target, even if you have pin pointed them. I highly doubt that is the intent though... suggesting that attacking the square you know they are in is somehow different than attacking them is specious.

That does bring up an interesting interaction though. Let's say an ally had pin pointed the invisible enemy and told you where they were. Then they moved 5', then you attempted spring attack. Now you are no longer attacking them, so they would get an AoO.


strangepork wrote:


If i have tremorsense and spring attack, i know what square is occupied. I still have a 50% miss chance though.

Can i spring attack into that square? Do they get no AoO? No AoO if i make my 50% An AoO no matter what bc technically i cannot "target" them?

I dont think id allow someone cast say magic missile just based on tremorsense (tell me if i am wrong on that one too), so im confused by the definion of "the target of the attack" if I am using tremorsense to attack into a square.

Im leaning towards ruling i cannot spring attack and hope to get lucky, but looking for people who know RAW better than i do.

thanks in advance!

Target based spells such as magic missile or charm person can not be used on invisible creatures unless you have a way to bypass it. Targeting for an attack gives a 50% miss chance. All Spring Attack does is allow you to make a weapon based attack and run away without provoking for it. It does nothing to change how targeting with a weapon works.


Fourshadow wrote:

A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

I am pretty certain there is no miss chance with tremorsense.

No, it does have the regular 'can't see' miss chance.

The way to think of tremor sense is that it is advanced scent. IE- doesn't need an action, automatically spots. But only for things touching the ground.


lemeres wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:

A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

I am pretty certain there is no miss chance with tremorsense.

No, it does have the regular 'can't see' miss chance.

The way to think of tremor sense is that it is advanced scent. IE- doesn't need an action, automatically spots. But only for things touching the ground.

Yes it does have the miss chance, just like blindsense does. Pinpoint in Pathfinder only means "I know which square you are in". Blindsight, another similar ability lets you target someone as if you could see them.


lemeres wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:

A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

I am pretty certain there is no miss chance with tremorsense.

No, it does have the regular 'can't see' miss chance.

The way to think of tremor sense is that it is advanced scent. IE- doesn't need an action, automatically spots. But only for things touching the ground.

Slightly related note, but there is (at least) one exception to this: the Geokineticist gets a super-plus-good version of tremorsense where, as long as they are using an earth or metal blast based attack, they completely ignore the miss chance from concealment.

Thread seems to be otherwise resolved, just wanted to point out how good the kineticist is


Apparently, Paizo and I disagree on what exactly 'pinpoint' means... I'll get over it. ;)

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