Alchemist Gains HP with Con Mutagen?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

If an Alchemist takes a Con mutagen, do they get temporary hp a la False life for the increase in Con mod?

Silver Crusade

No, they Gain HP a la Barbarian or Bears Endurance.

Liberty's Edge

It's not temporary HP as in false life. His actual hit point limit is temporarily increased, and if he loses hit points, he can be brought back to that maximum limit with healing, unlike temporary hit points which are a buffer above your actual hit points, and are just lost when you take damage, without being able to regain them (short of another instance of the effect that provided them, ie false life, unchained barbarians rage, etc.).


I feel like the original intent was that on occasion, a Barbarian would pass out half-dead at the end of a fight. They gain 2*level hp at the start or their rage, but lose 2*level hp when it ends.

I prefer to incorporate a bit of house-ruling on this. I let the Barbarian in my group treat the bonus hit points as temporary ones, but he also takes non-lethal damage equal to the number of those points used up at the end of his rage. This still *could* kill him, but it's not as likely.

Example: Level 12 barbarian Barbosa Abobo rages up. He gains 24 temporary hit points. The fight is short and he only takes one hit for 15. At the end of the rage he loses the remaining 9 temporary hp, and takes 15 non-lethal damage.


That seems like it might help with the problem with barbarian rage HP - that beyond a certain level, if they get knocked out or brought to 0 HP in battle, they go instantly to being totally dead without any period of bleeding out. I agree that having them pass out half-dead is appropriate and probably intended, I just don't like the risk of going to all dead so fast.


Any barbarian worth their salt should be taking Raging Vitality.


It's a temporary maximum HP increase. That means this does not actually give you those hit points upon usage, merely that your maximum is adjusted to the new limit. So, if you had 60 HP as a level 6 Alchemist, took a Con Mutagen, you'd still have 60 HP currently, but your maximum HP is now 72, as well as receive a +2 bonus to Fortitude Saves.


Nope, gaining con gives you the HP right away.


They get the extra hit points AND increase to max HP immediately just like a barbarian would. once the mutagen ends, they'd lose the extra hit points just like when barbarian rage ends.


Unlike a barbarian's rage, however, a mutagen keeps on working just fine when the alchemist falls unconscious. In fact, it looks like the bonus would persist even after the alchemist dies, for the purpose of breath of life and the like.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Nope, gaining con gives you the HP right away.

I don't remember that being a rule, do you have a citation I could peruse? It'd be good information, as I feel it may come up in some of our games.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Nope, gaining con gives you the HP right away.
I don't remember that being a rule, do you have a citation I could peruse? It'd be good information, as I feel it may come up in some of our games.
PRD - Getting Started wrote:

Constitution (Con)

Constitution represents your character's health and stamina. A Constitution bonus increases a character's hit points, so the ability is important for all classes. Some creatures, such as undead and constructs, do not have a Constitution score. Their modifier is +0 for any Constitution-based checks. A character with a Constitution score of 0 is dead.

You apply your character's Constitution modifier to:

Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he advances in level).
Fortitude saving throws, for resisting poison, disease, and similar threats.
If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.


Johnnycat93 wrote:
Any barbarian worth their salt should be taking Raging Vitality.

That delays the onset of Sudden Max HP Loss Death, but it actually makes you go even further into the negatives when the rage finally wears off, so I don't call that a full fix.


It's not supposed to be a full fix. Raging Vitality is just supposed to keep the barbarian alive long enough to get healed.

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