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Can you use Wary Withdrawal with Parting Shot to get defensive bonuses and an attack along with movement? Or does the total defense action's prohibition on attacks override the bonus attack granted by Parting Shot?
I'm inclined to think it works since, as a rule of thumb, specific usually beats general when it comes to rules. Not being able to attack when taking the total defense action is a general rule, and Parting Shot granting you an attack is a specific rule.
What do you guys think?
Sounds cool, I would allow it at my table.
Rules as written that sounds about right, but boy does it sound cheesy.
But considering you have to be in melee combat to use the withdraw action in the first place I don't actually have a problem with it.
Withdrawing from melee combat is a full action.
Relevant text.
I wouldn't allow this. Parting Shot envisions the withdrawal full round action, Wary Withdrawal gives you withdrawal benefits on a move action, but isn't itself a withdraw action.
I wouldn't allow this. Parting Shot envisions the withdrawal full round action, Wary Withdrawal gives you withdrawal benefits on a move action, but isn't itself a withdraw action.
That seems a little nitpicky. Withdraw as a move action tells me you are performing the withdraw action as a move action instead of a full action.
Can you use Wary Withdrawal with Parting Shot to get defensive bonuses and an attack along with movement? Or does the total defense action's prohibition on attacks override the bonus attack granted by Parting Shot?
I feel it's worth pointing out that the total defense action only prohibits taking attacks of opportunity, it mentions nothing about other attacks. If you can make some sort of attack as a move action you could do it while taking the total defense action.
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To me I see the statement of "you can also withdraw as a move action" to indicate that only the cost of the action is changing not the action itself. Your still doing a withdraw it just changes from a Full Round action to a move. Id allow it at my table. As it takes a two feat investment and has fairly specific requirements to pull off id allow it.
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No.
If you feel the need to get hypertechnical , you're withdrawing as a move action, not using the withdraw action. For things that made more sense I wouldn't split hairs but...
"Wary Withdrawal" - Sorry, but I couldn't find where this is from.
Or does the total defense action's prohibition on attacks override the bonus attack granted by Parting Shot?
I'm inclined to think it works since, as a rule of thumb, specific usually beats general when it comes to rules. Not being able to attack when taking the total defense action is a general rule, and Parting Shot granting you an attack is a specific rule.
There's not an actual prohibition on attacks while total defending - it just uses up your standard action, so you can't attack.
CRB page 247
Total Defense
You can defend yourself as a standard action. Starting at the
beginning of this action, you get a +4 bonus to your Armor Class
until the start of your next turn. You can’t combine total defense
with other actions that increase your AC, nor can you make
attacks of opportunity while benefiting from total defense.
There is some precedent, since Solarians can use a revelation to attack while in total defense, as a reaction:
CRB page 106
Reflection (Su)
You can reflect ranged attacks back at your enemies. If
you took the total defense action on your last turn, or if
you were fighting defensively and spend 1 Resolve Point,
as a reaction you can redirect a ranged attack that misses
you. Select a new target within 30 feet and make a ranged
attack roll with a –4 penalty. If your attack hits, the new
target is damaged as if it had been the intended target of
the original ranged attack
Parting shot has a lot of prerequisites and can only be used once in combat...
CRB page 160
Parting Shot (Combat)
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Mobility, Shot on the Run, base attack
bonus +6.
Benefit: When using the withdraw action, you can make a
single ranged attack at any point during your movement.
If you have the trick attack class feature and are using an
appropriate weapon, you can add your trick attack damage
to the attack you make while withdrawing. Once you use this
ability, you can’t use it again until the next time you regain
Stamina Points with a 10-minute rest.
Normal: You can’t attack when using the withdraw action
This combo (with the mysterious feat) seems like a lot of investment for one single extra attack while running with extra AC.
Wow. Talk about splitting hairs! And I thought I was the rules lawyer in these parts. :P
"Withdrawing as a move action" must refer to the withdraw action; otherwise the words have no legitimate rules basis or meaning whatsoever.
Wary Withdrawl is from Signal of Screams #1: The Diaspora Strain. There are a handful of horror themed feats and spells in the glossary.
Actually, the one that I have problems with is the requirement of Wary Withdrawl being that you are using the Total Defence action.
Total Defence would prohibit making attacks as part of the withdrawl.
Apparently, total defense doesn't prevent you from making attacks, just attacks of opportunity.
Wary Withdrawl is from Signal of Screams #1: The Diaspora Strain. There are a handful of horror themed feats and spells in the glossary.
Can you post the whole feat? That'll be useful to better judge it.
Wary Withdrawl is from Signal of Screams #1: The Diaspora Strain. There are a handful of horror themed feats and spells in the glossary.Can you post the whole feat? That'll be useful to better judge it.
There's no need. I already gave you the Benefits section, which is all that really matters. The flavor text and prerequisites aren't going to make any difference in a rules discussion on the rules forum.
There's no need. I already gave you the Benefits section, which is all that really matters. The flavor text and prerequisites aren't going to make any difference in a rules discussion on the rules forum.
Well, whatever, eventually it will show up on the AONSRD.
Parting shot mentions "When using the withdraw action", it does not mention withdraw has to be a full action (since at the time of writing the feat it could only be one) nor there is anything about it not being usable if withdraw is modified by another ability.
From the parting shot text, yeah, it is allowed.
Apparently, total defense doesn't prevent you from making attacks, just attacks of opportunity.
Hmm... That is fascinating.
It feels like an oversight. Like when they wrote the rules for that they didn't have anything that would allow an attack when you only had a move and a swift action remaining. So they didn't bother specifying that you can't make any attacks - they just removed the option to attack using AO and considered that sufficient.
But yeah. Wary Withdrawl makes a Withdrawl action a move action. And Parting Shot makes Withdrawl have an attack. So together this causes it so that you can make an attack with a move action.
I would forbid it in my home games. But as-written it is legal.
I would forbid it in my home games. But as-written it is legal.
Parting shot can be used once per combat. It's hardly groundbreaking.
Also, you have to be in melee range to take the withdraw action anyway. It's not a move, attack and have +4 AC at will.
Also, you have to be in melee range to take the withdraw action anyway. It's not a move, attack and have +4 AC at will.
Given its a 4 feat combination that requires BAB+6 and lets you do it a maximum of once per 10 minute rest, I'm kind of OK with that power level for 4 feats. Once per fight a +4 AC, move up to your speed, and a single ranged attack. In general, the earliest a non-soldier could do this is 9th level. I suppose a Solarian could do it by 7th, but they normally have better options in melee range.
Also, I'm not convinced by the wording of the withdraw action that you can only do it while in a threatened square. The first line I assume is the general description ("Withdrawing from melee combat is a full action."). Later it just states that anyone you can see doesn't threaten the square you start in. The blindfight feat improves that to the point you can withdraw against enemies you can't perceive.
Which raises the question, how do you treat a character with the blindfight feat, who *thinks* an enemy is threatening him but really isn't because he can't perceive them? He guesses their square, but guesses wrong and they are really outside of threatening range. Can they use parting shot in such a situation?
I was mostly considering it in the same light as pathfinder's combat expertise requiring you to make an attack to gain the dodge bonus to AC, but you are correct in that you might not need to be threatened.