PFS Flagbearer (feat)?


Pathfinder Society

Scarab Sages

Quote:


Flagbearer (Combat)

When brandishing a flag adorned with the standard of an organization you owe allegiance to, you inspire nearby members of the same allegiance.

Prerequisites: Cha 15.

Benefit: As long as you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag (see page 293), members of that allegiance within 30 feet who can see the flag (including yourself ) gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws against fear and charm effects. You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus. If the standard is taken by the enemy or destroyed, this bonus becomes a penalty, affecting all creatures that the bonus previously affected for 1 hour (or until you reclaim the lost flag).

Pasted from Archives of Nethys.

Can I pick the Pathfinder Society for my Flag's Organization?

I'm only asking because I'm not certain the feat's intended scope is as great as it would be in PFS where every player character (and many NPCs) are of this Organization.

*** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

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Only if you are in the Grand Lodge faction. Just kidding, it totally makes sense for it to be a Society flag. If you were in a home game you would be using a party flag or something similar to benefit everyone, so it is not like you are using it other than intended.

This actually exactly what one of my characters is doing.

Scarab Sages

I did think about just doing a faction (Grand Lodge, Dark Archive, so on), but that seems more like a jerk move, as it creates a sense of favoritism at the table. Plus, the more players covered by the benefit, the better.

@DM Livgin: what character class is your flag bearer? Since the flag occupies a hand, I'm torn as to which class would be hindered the least by such an item.

*** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Ya, I said it buffs all pathfinders because additional restrictions are unnecessary. No need to not buff your allies, right?

I use it on a bard who frequently wields the flag on a longspear. It took a lot of reading of the feat, and the Banner of Ancient Kings, and the Cavalier Banner ability before I decided that it is legitimate to benefit from the feat while using a spear the weapon is attached to. He also casts spells and wields a whip or longsword while holding the flag.

I choose to use it with a bard and went with a very support oriented build, it fits his flavour well.

Shadow Lodge ****

Just remember this: you may not always want to advertise you're a Pathfinder. It came up in less than 10% of the scenarios I played (less than darkness or fog) but it did come up.

*** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Lol, has totally come up in both directions... Bloodcove you say? Let me put this sack over my spear, move action to remove. Or does your character carry a wayfinder openly displaying his affiliations with the society, well yes he does, he also has this masterwork flag displaying his affiliations...

Dark Archive ***** ⦵⦵⦵

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"Hello, my name is Jasmine. My family make Wu Chai Tea, the tea with the monkey on the box!"

Jasmine's monkey, Samji, reaches into her haversack and offers boxes of tea to all the Pathfinders at the briefing.

"I carry a Wu Chai Tea flag," Jasmine points to her flag, with a picture of a monkey drinking tea, and the Wu Chai logo, "because tea and monkeys make everybody happy!"

___
My bard advertises her family's tea brand with dedication! And yes, I mark off gold expended on my ITS sheet for all the boxes of tea that I give away. Amazingly, this character is not in the Exchange...

Liberty's Edge *

"For the lore of the Society and Freedom, ONWARD!"

A pretty man pulls out his flag bearing the seal of the Grand Lodge with a smaller pennant for Liberty's Edge beneath it.

"I carry a Grand Lodge flag for Society business, and I'm looking to commission a Liberty's Edge flag in the future, along with a Blakros standard should I ever manage to hammer out matrimonial concerns with the clan."

The bonuses from the flag actually saved our party in the last scenario Rae was in.

*****

I have run for several bards using the Society as their affiliated organisation for Flag Bearer, I cannot see any reason why this wouldn't be within the rules.

Shadow Lodge

Myself, some years ago wrote:

My character was so inspired by a local dwarf rogue's incredible talent at dying and coming back time and time again that she had a banner made so that others might witness the dwarf's fierce will to live and be thus heartened.

A maroon dwarf dormant-en-feu on an argent field, behind[ whom] is a black tower. Maroon for patience in battle, black for constancy and grief, silver for peace.

Or[ in other words] a dying blood-red dwarf in front of Skyreach. The dwarf is in a fetal position and on fire.

Sovereign Court ** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Jasmine Wu wrote:
"I carry a Wu Chai Tea flag," Jasmine points to her flag, with a picture of a monkey drinking tea, and the Wu Chai logo, "because tea and monkeys make everybody happy!"

Yep, I've done something similar (with a char who's not in the exchange either). Amusingly, I've had at least one party member go "I don't want your drinks! ... oh wait, they give me a bonus to hit? ... Ok, I DO like your drinks now!" I've also had a monk with Vow of Fasting at the table who adamantly refused the bonus since his beliefs didn't allow him to partake of the drinks.

Grand Lodge ***

Aw, when I saw monkey, I thought Jasmine was going to mention the best way to carry a flag for Flagbearer:
Eldritch Guardian, mascot familiar. Who wouldn't get a bonus from a monkey twirling around a giant PFS flag, cheering you on during a fight? I've also considered a hawk, as the image of an eagle carrying the american flag in its claws is classic.

Scarab Sages

DM Livgin wrote:
I use it on a bard who frequently wields the flag on a longspear. It took a lot of reading of the feat, and the Banner of Ancient Kings, and the Cavalier Banner ability before I decided that it is legitimate to benefit from the feat while using a spear the weapon is attached to. He also casts spells and wields a whip or longsword while holding the flag.

I'm under the impression that the flag and the banner are seperate items with regard to the flagbearer feat. The distinction is that the flag can't be attached to weapons and requires "wasting" a free hand to recieve the feat's bonus. The Flag is an item detailed in the same book as that feat (Inner Sea World Guide).

Quote:

Flagbearer (Combat)

When brandishing a flag adorned with the standard of an organization you owe allegiance to, you inspire nearby members of the same allegiance.

Prerequisites: Cha 15.

Benefit: As long as you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag (see page 293), members of that allegiance within 30 feet who can see the flag (including yourself ) gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws against fear and charm effects. You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus. If the standard is taken by the enemy or destroyed, this bonus becomes a penalty, affecting all creatures that the bonus previously affected for 1 hour (or until you reclaim the lost flag).

Page 293 is where the item, Flag, is found:

Quote:


Flag

A flag is a colorful banner that bears the heraldry or symbol of a nation or organization. A character with the Flagbearer feat who bears a flag can grant additional combat bonuses to nearby allies. Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand.

Cost: 10 gp Weight 3 lbs.

As opposed to the banner from Ultimate Combat

Quote:

Banner

Price 1–20 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

Description
This is a banner, flag, or pennant. You tie it to a pole, lance, or polearm. Most are woven, dyed, or painted with a pattern or symbol, such as a knight’s crest or a country’s flag. A simple banner with one field color and a simple insignia such as a weapon or shield costs 1 gp. A banner with two to four field colors and a complex insignia such as a lion or dragon costs 5 gp. A detailed banner with four or more field colors and a very complex insignia, such as a heraldic device with eight or more sections, costs 20 gp.

I know, confusing, but the feat clearly refers to the flag in the Inner Sea World Guide, despite the wording on Banner.

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Minnesota—St. Paul

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I'd say it's a good assumption you can use the Flagbearer feat with a mundane spear on a banner, as you can use the Banner of the Ancient Kings on a longspear and it specifically gives benefits for those with Flagbearer.

BotAK wrote:
This tattered white canvas banner looks like an old piece of sailcloth, or perhaps a winding shroud—a 4-foot-by-6-foot rectangle with loops that can fit over a spear haft or pole running up one side. If mounted on a longspear or pole at least 8 feet in length, the banner shifts in appearance to match the heraldry or coat of arms of the person who attached it.

A good note though: You lose (some) BotAK benefits if you've only got it in one hand.

Shadow Lodge

I'm using an 8-feet polearm(guisarme) myself. Sometimes it feels super fiddly though.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

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Sammy T wrote:
Just remember this: you may not always want to advertise you're a Pathfinder. It came up in less than 10% of the scenarios I played (less than darkness or fog) but it did come up.

any time you're standing in the vicinity of a dead body is probably a bad time to advertise that you're a pathfinder.

Sovereign Court *****

Keith Apperson wrote:

I'd say it's a good assumption you can use the Flagbearer feat with a mundane spear on a banner, as you can use the Banner of the Ancient Kings on a longspear and it specifically gives benefits for those with Flagbearer.

BotAK wrote:
This tattered white canvas banner looks like an old piece of sailcloth, or perhaps a winding shroud—a 4-foot-by-6-foot rectangle with loops that can fit over a spear haft or pole running up one side. If mounted on a longspear or pole at least 8 feet in length, the banner shifts in appearance to match the heraldry or coat of arms of the person who attached it.
A good note though: You lose (some) BotAK benefits if you've only got it in one hand.

I interpreted this as an additional benefit to the BotAK. The character that I have played to Level 14 with flagbearer, used a flag on a pole in one hand until he could afford/have enough fame for the BotAK, when he switched over to using a longspear. The feat itself specifies carrying the banner in on hand, and has no provisions for attaching it to weapons, so I'd suggest expecting table variation with anything other than the BotAK and a longspear specifically.

*****

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My bard of Shelyn uses the Banner of Ancient Kings with the Flagbearer feat and has his own group called the Songbirds. Everyone at the beginning of the scenario is offered to join the Songbirds and are given a unique bird name once joining. We even had a GM once get into it and referred to all the players for the entire scenario by their bird names. You can let the Banner be whatever you want as long as you are not a jerk to players and give them the option to join and gain the benefit.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Agent, Australia—NSW—Hurstville aka Jawbreaker

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My bard 'Josh Bieber' has his own fan club, if you sign upto the club at the start of the game your get the bonus +1 as well as free healing (Wand of CLW).

Also worked in story wise for why we are traveling to various towns - Bieber is on tour and these are my fans/bodyguards/support act etc.

Grand Lodge **

Jason Williams wrote:

My bard 'Josh Bieber' has his own fan club, if you sign upto the club at the start of the game your get the bonus +1 as well as free healing (Wand of CLW).

Also worked in story wise for why we are traveling to various towns - Bieber is on tour and these are my fans/bodyguards/support act etc.

Not to be a jerk, but, I'd rather be a pathfinder than join a bard's fan club. So if it came down to it I'd forego whatever bonus because I can't see any hardened adventurer (at the very least any of mine) that goes around doing the Pathfinder's dirty work joining a fan club of a bard...

Scarab Sages *****

claudekennilol wrote:
Jason Williams wrote:

My bard 'Josh Bieber' has his own fan club, if you sign upto the club at the start of the game your get the bonus +1 as well as free healing (Wand of CLW).

Also worked in story wise for why we are traveling to various towns - Bieber is on tour and these are my fans/bodyguards/support act etc.

Not to be a jerk, but, I'd rather be a pathfinder than join a bard's fan club. So if it came down to it I'd forego whatever bonus because I can't see any hardened adventurer (at the very least any of mine) that goes around doing the Pathfinder's dirty work joining a fan club of a bard...

Oh, darn! I was SO looking forward to having some "fans" of my own...

It is how I make my "night job" checks after all! (wink!)

Shadow Lodge

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urgh...

Sovereign Court ***

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claudekennilol wrote:
Jason Williams wrote:

My bard 'Josh Bieber' has his own fan club, if you sign upto the club at the start of the game your get the bonus +1 as well as free healing (Wand of CLW).

Also worked in story wise for why we are traveling to various towns - Bieber is on tour and these are my fans/bodyguards/support act etc.

Not to be a jerk, but, I'd rather be a pathfinder than join a bard's fan club. So if it came down to it I'd forego whatever bonus because I can't see any hardened adventurer (at the very least any of mine) that goes around doing the Pathfinder's dirty work joining a fan club of a bard...

You can be both. Archaeologists have personal lives, you know.


Kigvan wrote:
Keith Apperson wrote:

I'd say it's a good assumption you can use the Flagbearer feat with a mundane spear on a banner, as you can use the Banner of the Ancient Kings on a longspear and it specifically gives benefits for those with Flagbearer.

BotAK wrote:
This tattered white canvas banner looks like an old piece of sailcloth, or perhaps a winding shroud—a 4-foot-by-6-foot rectangle with loops that can fit over a spear haft or pole running up one side. If mounted on a longspear or pole at least 8 feet in length, the banner shifts in appearance to match the heraldry or coat of arms of the person who attached it.
A good note though: You lose (some) BotAK benefits if you've only got it in one hand.
I interpreted this as an additional benefit to the BotAK. The character that I have played to Level 14 with flagbearer, used a flag on a pole in one hand until he could afford/have enough fame for the BotAK, when he switched over to using a longspear. The feat itself specifies carrying the banner in on hand, and has no provisions for attaching it to weapons, so I'd suggest expecting table variation with anything other than the BotAK and a longspear specifically.

Anyone who says you cannot use Banner of the Ancient Kings as the focal point of Flagbearer feat clearly has not read the entire entry of the BotAK. It clearly calls it out...

Banner of the Ancient Kings wrote:
If the banner’s carrier possesses the Flagbearer feat (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide 286), the banner of the ancient kings doubles the morale bonuses granted by that feat. A bard who carries a longspear or pole to which a banner of the ancient kings has been attached is treated as four levels higher than his actual bard level for the purposes of determining the bonuses granted by his inspire courage bardic performance ability.

I'm not sure how much more clear it could be than that.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Agent, Australia—NSW—Hurstville aka Jawbreaker

Katisha wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Jason Williams wrote:

My bard 'Josh Bieber' has his own fan club, if you sign upto the club at the start of the game your get the bonus +1 as well as free healing (Wand of CLW).

Also worked in story wise for why we are traveling to various towns - Bieber is on tour and these are my fans/bodyguards/support act etc.

Not to be a jerk, but, I'd rather be a pathfinder than join a bard's fan club. So if it came down to it I'd forego whatever bonus because I can't see any hardened adventurer (at the very least any of mine) that goes around doing the Pathfinder's dirty work joining a fan club of a bard...

Oh, darn! I was SO looking forward to having some "fans" of my own...

It is how I make my "night job" checks after all! (wink!)

And I've had a hand full of pc's not join for that reason, but others who have signed up all their characters as fans.

It's a more favourable reason for visiting a town other than the standard 'mercs' looking for work - which given the make up of most parties should raise suspicions straight away.

And he is very effective Bard - however our VC has insisted I actually sing on occasion which is not good for anyone.

Sovereign Court *****

Faelyn wrote:


I'm not sure how much more clear it could be than that.

My point was that there is no rules text to use flagbearer with a longspear or other long shaft weapon other than that provided via the BotAK, so without the BotAK it is a very grey area of the rules to use flagbearer on anything other than a pole held in one hand (as described by the feat)

*

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Kigvan wrote:
Faelyn wrote:


I'm not sure how much more clear it could be than that.

My point was that there is no rules text to use flagbearer with a longspear or other long shaft weapon other than that provided via the BotAK, so without the BotAK it is a very grey area of the rules to use flagbearer on anything other than a pole held in one hand (as described by the feat)

When the flag is out, my bard is currently holding it in his 'off' hand (with buckler, weapon cord for the flag pending) with a blade in his 'main' if he's not casting something.

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