[Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The Medic!


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Those of you who saw our free April Fool's Release yesterday might have been wondering what was up with the Ambu-lancer. Now that the national day of silliness has passed, I can finally answer that question.

This right here is the playtest for a brand new Path of War base class, the dedicated savior of overzealous Warlords, stubborn Warders and overeager Stalkers everywhere:

The Medic

Complete with four archetypes (including the Ambu-lancer, also in this playtest), favored class bonuses, and new feats, the medic brings a unique style of aggressive in combat healing to the table. So read, critique, and enjoy!


I have a friend that I just got into PoW that will absolutely love the Ambu-Lancer. In general, I really like the look of the Medic. Really want to play a character that scrambles around the battlefield with just a hint of over protectiveness.

The Exchange

Seems rather interesting, but triage seems weird as a per encounter ability. Is there a good explanation why this couldn't be used outside of battle, or is this just infinite healing outside of battle?


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Seems rather interesting, but triage seems weird as a per encounter ability. Is there a good explanation why this couldn't be used outside of battle, or is this just infinite healing outside of battle?

It's largely just the infinite healing outside of battle. It's also to present the medic as an in combat healer. They're not doctors, clerics, or alchemists. The job of the medic is to get you up and fighting fit so you survive long enough to get proper treatment.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:
It's largely just the infinite healing outside of battle. It's also to present the medic as an in combat healer. They're not doctors, clerics, or alchemists. The job of the medic is to get you up and fighting fit so you survive long enough to get proper treatment.

I get it from a mechanical standpoint, you can't just have infinite healing. I was talking more from a fluff perspective. When a battle's going on, he can patch you up better than a lot of healers, but as soon as the fighting stops he suddenly loses his miraculous powers. I could see the whole "patch up until you get proper treatment" thing if Triage granted temp HP, but it's honest to goodness healing, just like you would get from a divine caster. From a suspension-of-disbelief standpoint, this makes no sense


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
I get it from a mechanical standpoint, you can't just have infinite healing. I was talking more from a fluff perspective. When a battle's going on, he can patch you up better than a lot of healers, but as soon as the fighting stops he suddenly loses his miraculous powers. I could see the whole "patch up until you get proper treatment" thing if Triage granted temp HP, but it's honest to goodness healing, just like you would get from a divine caster. From a suspension-of-disbelief standpoint, this makes no sense

I would argue that hit points themselves make no sense from a suspension-of-disbelief standpoint. Just what exactly a hit point represents is never made clear, and they have practically zero effect on your character until you drop from 1 to 0. They could be your character's vitality, or luck or stamina, or just bags of meat tied to your character's body, or (and perhaps especially) some strange, undefined combination of all of the above.

Because hit points exist as such a gray area, the action of restoring them is up to the fluff of the class. Yes, a medic can save your life and get you up and running so you don't need a doctor. They do that in real life and in fiction all the time. Sometimes that's not always the case, but for storytelling purposes and mechanical balance it's necessary to accept a certain level of abstraction. Temporary hit points don't solve this problem, and come with a slew of issues all their own like stacking, duration, recovery and capping all of which make defining their use in the context of triage and related medic abilities difficult beyond the point of the benefits outweighing the cost.

The medic is a combat specialist, their training is related directly to combat and their abilities kick in when they and their allies are in danger. Once the danger has passed, there's no need for the medic to act frantically and proper healing and rest is always better.


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The following text was added to Triage, please note:

A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:

The following text was added to Triage, please note:

A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.

That certainly clears quite a few things up, even if it creates a little more book keeping. Now I just have to come to terms with an extraordinary ability accomplishing more with a swift action than most spells do with a standard action.

Just a thought, but what about an ability (perhaps a Medic's Expertise) that augments the Medic's use of the heal skill? Like the Oracle Of Life's "Healing Hands" revelation that allows them to provide long-term care to twice as many people at once and themselves, or something that improves their ability to "Treat Deadly Wounds", or just speeding up the healing they provide with long term care? Since you're going for non-magical healing, that seems like it would be right up the Medic's alleyway.


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:

The following text was added to Triage, please note:

A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.

That certainly clears quite a few things up, even if it creates a little more book keeping. Now I just have to come to terms with an extraordinary ability accomplishing more with a swift action than most spells do with a standard action.

Just a thought, but what about an ability (perhaps a Medic's Expertise) that augments the Medic's use of the heal skill? Like the Oracle Of Life's "Healing Hands" revelation that allows them to provide long-term care to twice as many people at once and themselves, or something that improves their ability to "Treat Deadly Wounds", or just speeding up the healing they provide with long term care? Since you're going for non-magical healing, that seems like it would be right up the Medic's alleyway.

Good idea, I'll look into those. Something to speed up noncombat healing would probably be nice for the medic, I agree.


I love this class and all of the archetypes, though I'm not a fan of the choice of initiating modifier.

It's pretty cool though despite that.


swoosh wrote:

I love this class and all of the archetypes, though I'm not a fan of the choice of initiating modifier.

It's pretty cool though despite that.

What's your issue with the initiation modifier?


Nothing major, just a preferential thing. The wise healer is such a common concept in Pathfinder the idea of a nonmagical healer more intellectual is something that's always stuck in my head.

It's nothing on your work. It's great.

The class is actually really, really well put together. I'm struggling really hard to find things to criticize about its design.

I'd like to see a talent or feat that lets you triage and boost at the same time, probably mutually exclusive with emboldening boost though.

The Exchange

Aside from the little fluff thing I mentioned earlier, about the only criticism I have is that Triage feels a little too powerful with the move plus the heal all in a single swift action. Not game-breakingly powerful, but it feels a little generous in terms of action economy. My impulse would be to take away the movement from the swift action activation, but keep it with the full-round activation. The swift move+heal just strikes me as the kind of thing my players would use to move and get a full attack even if the person getting healed was only down by a few HP.


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Aside from the little fluff thing I mentioned earlier, about the only criticism I have is that Triage feels a little too powerful with the move plus the heal all in a single swift action. Not game-breakingly powerful, but it feels a little generous in terms of action economy. My impulse would be to take away the movement from the swift action activation, but keep it with the full-round activation. The swift move+heal just strikes me as the kind of thing my players would use to move and get a full attack even if the person getting healed was only down by a few HP.

Don't think I'm disregarding your concern when I say this, but if that's a tactical maneuver your player decides to make, they're leaving themselves open to retaliation and that's something you should take advantage of.

Specifically: Use of a full attack prevents Cura Te Ipsum from activating, which lowers their Reflex and Will saves. Frivolous use of a triage can cost the party healing at the end of combat, which they will likely need, and with the medic out of position, the opportunity to have another monster retaliate on a different PC is ripe for the taking.

It is possible to use Triage offensively, but doing so entails some notable risk on the part of the medic, and can end up causing more harm than good if used irresponsibly against an intelligent opponent.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:

Don't think I'm disregarding your concern when I say this, but if that's a tactical maneuver your player decides to make, they're leaving themselves open to retaliation and that's something you should take advantage of.

Specifically: Use of a full attack prevents Cura Te Ipsum from activating, which lowers their Reflex and Will saves. Frivolous use of a triage can cost the party healing at the end of combat, which they will likely need, and with the medic out of position, the opportunity to have another monster retaliate on a different PC is ripe for the taking.

It is possible to use Triage offensively, but doing so entails some notable risk on the part of the medic, and can end up causing more harm than good if used irresponsibly against an intelligent opponent.

... I had a player as a Maneuver Master Monk start combat with a flurry of maneuvers, grapple an ally, then grapple to move (which I now like to think of as him grabbing his friend and using him like a snowboard), then dropped the grapple and attacked the monster with his remaining attacks.

But seriously, I'm also just comparing it to Lay On Hands, which, although much weaker than triage, is the closest thing that I could think of to it. Swift on self, standard on other people, can expend two uses to apply it to multiple people by turning it into channel energy. With Triage quickly outpacing the amount of healing it offers versus the various per day abilities (channel energy, lay on hands and transfer wounds, assuming there is more than a single combat per day), making it target another person as a swift action AND providing the movement to get to that person in said swift action seems like a lot of pluses over most other methods of healing. I like the kinds of opportunities that ability offers, but my excitement as a player about how good that ability is (at least compared to other methods of healing) makes the GM in me think twice about it.

On the other hand, in-combat healing in the game is rather underpowered at present, and most builds that are actually good at in combat healing are rather bad at everything else, so I'm not necessarily opposed to having a class that is both good at healing people while they're in battle and actually being able to CONTRIBUTE to the battle. I guess it's just something to think about.


Good to see some free playtest stuff. ;)


Medics now have a good Will save progression and Cura Te Ipsum provides a scaling +1 - +5 insight bonus to Reflex and Will saves for 1 round when the medic uses a strike. Improvised Treatment turned out to be largely useless and has been replaced with the following:

Improved Treatment (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, when the medic treats deadly wounds, the creature she treats recovers hit points and ability score damage as if it had rested for a full day. At 6th level, when the medic treats a creature’s deadly wounds it recover hit points as if it had rested for a full day with long term care. At 11th level, when the medic treat deadly wounds, the creature recovers hit point and ability damage as if it had rested for 3 days.

Still working on some other stuff.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Elricaltovilla wrote:

The following text was added to Triage, please note:

A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.

Clunky.

A PC enters combat unexpectedly, with a mere 3 hit points of his normal 50 total. Surprise! The medic can't heal that PC to anywhere above 3 hitpoints.

Also, in an encounter, the party is badly bloodied, but the medic becomes temporarily incapacitated. A minute after the party ends the fight, the medic wakes up and... can't do anything because 10 rounds have passed. Seconds earlier he could've helped, but... too late.

The Exchange

Anguish wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:

The following text was added to Triage, please note:

A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.

Clunky.

A PC enters combat unexpectedly, with a mere 3 hit points of his normal 50 total. Surprise! The medic can't heal that PC to anywhere above 3 hitpoints.

Also, in an encounter, the party is badly bloodied, but the medic becomes temporarily incapacitated. A minute after the party ends the fight, the medic wakes up and... can't do anything because 10 rounds have passed. Seconds earlier he could've helped, but... too late.

Yeah, but without that line the party could kick a dog, thus prompting it to attack them, and then the medic could go around healing everyone's wounds from a previous encounter.

Personally, I'd say that your uses of triage are useful until they are used up or until you roll for initiative again, and able to be used for any wounds that happened during the encounter that gave you said uses. I'm sure that could be worded more elegantly, but there you have it.

Also, the Medic can still give that party member (and any else in range) a pile of temp HP by spending a full round action getting his maneuvers back, and if he has access to Silver Crane (either through the Angel of Mercy archetype or by becoming a member of the Empyreal Guardians), several of those maneuvers allow them to attack and heal allies at the same time. Otherwise, you'll have to rely on magic items and natural healing.


There are valid points to both sides of the argument (actually, there seems to be about 12 different sides, but that's not really pertinent).

What I'm concerned with is ensuring that the medic is an effective combat healer, something that is tricky to do largely because it's pretty alien to pathfinder's current metagame and the points of comparison are, quite frankly, very ineffective at accomplishing this given task.

The numbers on triage are honestly pretty impressive, in how well they map to expected damage from enemies. The end result being that you can essentially treat each triage use as equivalent to the use of a good boost or counter (attack negation + movement is about 3-5th level counter).

I think, in approaching the design of this class, it's a mistake to assume the presence of alternative healing methods. Angel of Mercy can assume that Silver Crane is available, and Witch Doctor can assume the presence of wands and scrolls, but the medic class should be able to stand on its own as a healer.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:
I think, in approaching the design of this class, it's a mistake to assume the presence of alternative healing methods. Angel of Mercy can assume that Silver Crane is available, and Witch Doctor can assume the presence of wands and scrolls, but the medic class should be able to stand on its own as a healer.

The only thing that I can think of that would ameliorate the absence of alternative healing methods would be something that allows you to treat deadly wounds faster, since that 1 hour time slot can be kinda rough. Either that, or something that lets you treat deadly wounds of multiple characters at once. Again, I must resort to suggesting a Medic's Expertise, since that's the obvious method to add in something that is not strictly needed for the class to function, but rather something that a specific player could use to specialize. Perhaps something like:

Battlefield Surgeon (or some better name since that also seems to be a trait):When using the Heal skill to Treat Deadly Wounds, the time required to do so is reduced to 10 minutes (or whatever time frame seems reasonable)


If their is a medic and a vitalist in the party, I would imagine they would never need to worry about healing, lol.

The Exchange

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Air0r wrote:
If their is a medic and a vitalist in the party, I would imagine they would never need to worry about healing, lol.

Well, a good vitalist already keeps the whole party up. I played in a party as a vitalist when we also had a cleric, and being able to redirect all that channeled energy was AMAZING.

The thing that I like is that even if you have another healer, the Medic won't ever feel superfluous since it has a built-in offense thanks to the Martial Maneuvers.

Grand Lodge

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The class looks really cool, would be a good idea for a GMNPC because it can be built to not over shadow the PCs.

There is the healer in 3.5 which was kinda a cool class, plus there are lots of low cost healing items that the Medic could utilize.


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Still trying to fix the math on Medic's triage ability. After doing a bunch of calculations, I think the best option is to stop trying to tie the healing to WIS and just make it a steady amount. So triage healing is now a flat amount per level (5 hp per level). I'm also removing the text limiting triage to healing only recent wounds/conditions, since that's only causing more problems than it solves.

A fluff sidebar was also added to help give some grounding to how triage heals.


Considering there are lots of ways to obtain constant fast healing and the vitalist exists, full healing out of combat really isn't an issue anyway.


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Air0r wrote:
Considering there are lots of ways to obtain constant fast healing and the vitalist exists, full healing out of combat really isn't an issue anyway.

It's an issue of perception too though, which is something I've learned over the course of working with DSP. Unfortunately for me, I've got a hard time accepting anything less than ideal results when I write stuff.


Elricaltovilla wrote:
Air0r wrote:
Considering there are lots of ways to obtain constant fast healing and the vitalist exists, full healing out of combat really isn't an issue anyway.
It's an issue of perception too though, which is something I've learned over the course of working with DSP. Unfortunately for me, I've got a hard time accepting anything less than ideal results when I write stuff.

so buying a pair of Boots of the Earth or a ring of regen and just passing it around until everyone is topped off between combats is perceived poorly?

EDIT: just read the part about ring of regen only healing damage taken while being worn. so there is still the boots.


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Air0r wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:
Air0r wrote:
Considering there are lots of ways to obtain constant fast healing and the vitalist exists, full healing out of combat really isn't an issue anyway.
It's an issue of perception too though, which is something I've learned over the course of working with DSP. Unfortunately for me, I've got a hard time accepting anything less than ideal results when I write stuff.

so buying a pair of Boots of the Earth or a ring of regen and just passing it around until everyone is topped off between combats is perceived poorly?

EDIT: just read the part about ring of regen only healing damage taken while being worn. so there is still the boots.

It varies from table to table and person to person. I know of people who consider Wands of Infernal Healing cheesy, but in one of the games I play in the GM gave each player a custom teamwork feat that gives DR 5/- and Fast Healing 5 for each ally with the feat within 3 squares. There's a mythic ability for the guardian that just outright gives you Fast healing 5, but at the same time, boots of the earth also exist.

So, y'know, there's some wiggle room and it allows people to form a lot of different opinions.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Maybe as a compromise, apply a pound of flesh; a cool-down. One minute after applying triage, a medic becomes fatigued for ten minutes. Triage used in combat *does not trigger this as the medic channels the adrenaline rush of battle.

So yeah, if you've got time you can heal out of combat. But if you're doing a door-to-door dungeon crawl, you may not be able to.

*Define this this as any time you can't take 10 on skills due to stress, not the usual per-encounter definition that includes one minute after combat.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:

It varies from table to table and person to person. I know of people who consider Wands of Infernal Healing cheesy, but in one of the games I play in the GM gave each player a custom teamwork feat that gives DR 5/- and Fast Healing 5 for each ally with the feat within 3 squares. There's a mythic ability for the guardian that just outright gives you Fast healing 5, but at the same time, boots of the earth also exist.

So, y'know, there's some wiggle room and it allows people to form a lot of different opinions.

Since no one other than me ever plays healers in my group, whenever I play anything else, wands of infernal healing become the party's sole source of healing. I don't even play healers that often, cause I'm more of an arcane caster type, so we're usually drowning in those wands.

Anguish wrote:

Maybe as a compromise, apply a pound of flesh; a cool-down. One minute after applying triage, a medic becomes fatigued for ten minutes. Triage used in combat *does not trigger this as the medic channels the adrenaline rush of battle.

So yeah, if you've got time you can heal out of combat. But if you're doing a door-to-door dungeon crawl, you may not be able to.

*Define this this as any time you can't take 10 on skills due to stress, not the usual per-encounter definition that includes one minute after combat.

I like the idea of a cooldown when used out of battle, but at the same time that pretty much kills the idea of using the heal skill to heal wounds. At the same time, Triage is so much better than pretty much every other available method of healing that allowing it out of battle at all may be completely unbalancing. Although, as a Sadist Life-leech Vitalist, I would force enemies into the collective, drain all of their health, and then use the extra power points I gained from their death to top off the party, thus ending pretty much every battle with full health without impacting my power points for the day, so...

At this point, I like the idea of a cooldown out-of-combat, and if someone playtests it with such an ability then I would like to know how that worked out


Anguish wrote:

Maybe as a compromise, apply a pound of flesh; a cool-down. One minute after applying triage, a medic becomes fatigued for ten minutes. Triage used in combat *does not trigger this as the medic channels the adrenaline rush of battle.

So yeah, if you've got time you can heal out of combat. But if you're doing a door-to-door dungeon crawl, you may not be able to.

*Define this this as any time you can't take 10 on skills due to stress, not the usual per-encounter definition that includes one minute after combat.

This creates a similar issue to the old text about triage only being able to heal wounds from the current encounter. Mainly, I don't think that there is a problem that requires being resolved anymore. Compromise is all well and good, but only if it actually improves the end result, and I'm not sure that this would.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:
Anguish wrote:

Maybe as a compromise, apply a pound of flesh; a cool-down. One minute after applying triage, a medic becomes fatigued for ten minutes. Triage used in combat *does not trigger this as the medic channels the adrenaline rush of battle.

So yeah, if you've got time you can heal out of combat. But if you're doing a door-to-door dungeon crawl, you may not be able to.

*Define this this as any time you can't take 10 on skills due to stress, not the usual per-encounter definition that includes one minute after combat.

This creates a similar issue to the old text about triage only being able to heal wounds from the current encounter. Mainly, I don't think that there is a problem that requires being resolved anymore. Compromise is all well and good, but only if it actually improves the end result, and I'm not sure that this would.

The only thing is that there's never been "per encounter" healing in pathfinder that hasn't required you smack anybody to do it. Every other method of healing makes sense in the world of the game, but the explanation for triage is largely a hand-wave, and so is the reasoning behind not being able to be great at healing outside of battle. If it were in any supernatural then it would make sense, but as an extraordinary ability that heals and can't be used outside of battle, it just begs a lot of questions. Trying to make it like maneuvers but still not infinite per day is just confusing


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:
Anguish wrote:

Maybe as a compromise, apply a pound of flesh; a cool-down. One minute after applying triage, a medic becomes fatigued for ten minutes. Triage used in combat *does not trigger this as the medic channels the adrenaline rush of battle.

So yeah, if you've got time you can heal out of combat. But if you're doing a door-to-door dungeon crawl, you may not be able to.

*Define this this as any time you can't take 10 on skills due to stress, not the usual per-encounter definition that includes one minute after combat.

This creates a similar issue to the old text about triage only being able to heal wounds from the current encounter. Mainly, I don't think that there is a problem that requires being resolved anymore. Compromise is all well and good, but only if it actually improves the end result, and I'm not sure that this would.
The only thing is that there's never been "per encounter" healing in pathfinder that hasn't required you smack anybody to do it. Every other method of healing makes sense in the world of the game, but the explanation for triage is largely a hand-wave, and so is the reasoning behind not being able to be great at healing outside of battle. If it were in any supernatural then it would make sense, but as an extraordinary ability that heals and can't be used outside of battle, it just begs a lot of questions. Trying to make it like maneuvers but still not infinite per day is just confusing

If you want to give it a run and let me know what you think, I'm happy for the feedback. But I don't want to repeat the same mistake I made before with this class, so I don't want to add any new verbiage until it's been vetted a bit.

The Exchange

Elricaltovilla wrote:
If you want to give it a run and let me know what you think, I'm happy for the feedback. But I don't want to repeat the same mistake I made before with this class, so I don't want to add any new verbiage until it's been vetted a bit.

If I can get around to playtesting it, I'll let you know. It's honestly one of the best healing classes I've ever seen just from the Triage numbers alone, which is probably why I've been such a thorn in you about it. Even just mocking up a Angel of Mercy Medic with a focus on Silver Crane and Golden Lion ends up being rather impressive, both in offense and support.

I don't know if I'll have a chance to playtest it, but I am playing in 2 campaigns as frail characters in healerless parties, so it's a distinct possibility.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The Medic's Improved Treatment ability seems pretty good. My only concern is the fact that you can only treat one person at a time with it. Convincing some parties to stop for just one hour is already a tough ask. Convincing them to stop for three or four hours to treat all of them just isn't feasible. Would you consider making it so that the Medic can Treat Deadly Wounds of multiple creatures similar to how Long Term Care can be provided to multiple creatures?


Jack of Dust wrote:
The Medic's Improved Treatment ability seems pretty good. My only concern is the fact that you can only treat one person at a time with it. Convincing some parties to stop for just one hour is already a tough ask. Convincing them to stop for three or four hours to treat all of them just isn't feasible. Would you consider making it so that the Medic can Treat Deadly Wounds of multiple creatures similar to how Long Term Care can be provided to multiple creatures?

Figuring out the exact wording that Improved Treatment needs is one of the things on my to do list.

In other news, some new text has been added to address the issue of medics going broke on triage in extremely long fights. The following change has been made to the medic's maneuver recovery.

Quote:
A medic may recover maneuvers in one of two ways. She may take a standard action to assess the situation and her allies to regain one expended maneuver. Alternatively, the medic may spend a full round action to reassure her allies of her presence, granting all allies within 30 feet temporary hit points equal to 3 times her initiator level and a bonus to fortitude saves equal to her initiation modifier for one round. These temporary hit points last for one minute or until lost, and stack with temporary hit points gained from other sources, but not from additional uses of the medic’s maneuver recovery. If she does so, the medic recovers a number of expended maneuvers equal to her medic initiation modifier. In addition, if the medic has no remaining uses of triage available for the encounter, she regains one additional use of triage.

Bolded is the important part.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

To clarify, does the Medic only regain the use of Triage when they elect to use the full round action to recover maneuvers or can they regain it by simply spending the standard action to recover maneuvers as well?


Jack of Dust wrote:
To clarify, does the Medic only regain the use of Triage when they elect to use the full round action to recover maneuvers or can they regain it by simply spending the standard action to recover maneuvers as well?

I did actually go back and redo the wording to make this absolutely clear. It now reads:

Quote:
In addition, if the medic has no remaining uses of triage available for the encounter when she uses her full round recovery, she regains one additional use of triage.

So it only applies when she recovers maneuvers as a full round action.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Great, thanks for that clarification! It's a shame my home game is currently on hold for a few weeks or I would see if my GM would let me play a Medic.

By the way, do you plan to include a Medic Expertise that can be used to end bleed effects sometime down the line? I ask because many options that cause bleed such as the Cutting Gale strike from Tempest Gale (as well as the bleed condition itself) require either a DC 15 First Aid Heal check as a standard action or the application of magical healing to end the condition. While a Medic obviously has the ability to do the former, spending standard actions in-combat to stop bleed on yourself and allies can be rough.

Edit: Nevermind, I noticed the First Aid Training feat eases the pain of the action economy a bit.


Jack of Dust wrote:

Great, thanks for that clarification! It's a shame my home game is currently on hold for a few weeks or I would see if my GM would let me play a Medic.

By the way, do you plan to include a Medic Expertise that can be used to end bleed effects sometime down the line? I ask because many options that cause bleed such as the Cutting Gale strike from Tempest Gale (as well as the bleed condition itself) require either a DC 15 First Aid Heal check as a standard action or the application of magical healing to end the condition. While a Medic obviously has the ability to do the former, spending standard actions in-combat to stop bleed on yourself and allies can be rough.

Edit: Nevermind, I noticed the First Aid Training feat eases the pain of the action economy a bit.

There's all kinds of stuff in the document as both feats and expertises to allow medics to excel at clearing up conditions. I think the only things they really have trouble with are ability burn (which is Psionics only IIRC) and if they get paralyzed or something to prevent them from using triage. Overall I think the class manages to be quite solid, but not so much that it overwhelms other options to fill the role.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Elricaltovilla wrote:
Jack of Dust wrote:

Great, thanks for that clarification! It's a shame my home game is currently on hold for a few weeks or I would see if my GM would let me play a Medic.

By the way, do you plan to include a Medic Expertise that can be used to end bleed effects sometime down the line? I ask because many options that cause bleed such as the Cutting Gale strike from Tempest Gale (as well as the bleed condition itself) require either a DC 15 First Aid Heal check as a standard action or the application of magical healing to end the condition. While a Medic obviously has the ability to do the former, spending standard actions in-combat to stop bleed on yourself and allies can be rough.

Edit: Nevermind, I noticed the First Aid Training feat eases the pain of the action economy a bit.

There's all kinds of stuff in the document as both feats and expertises to allow medics to excel at clearing up conditions. I think the only things they really have trouble with are ability burn (which is Psionics only IIRC) and if they get paralyzed or something to prevent them from using triage. Overall I think the class manages to be quite solid, but not so much that it overwhelms other options to fill the role.

They can't heal negative levels either (witch doctor not withstanding) unless I've missed something so wands/scrolls of spells like restoration are still required.

It's definitely a solid class though and I doubt my GM would have a problem with me playing one when our weekly game starts up again since he's a big fan of the stuff Dreamscarred produces.

From the looks of it, in addition to their healing role, Medics also make great assassins thanks to their disciplines and their ability to assess the health of their enemies. I'll likely go down that route if/when I get the chance to try it myself. The ability to determine whether you are likely to dispatch an enemy in the surprise round sounds invaluable to groups of a more stealthy persuasion.


Jack of Dust wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:
Jack of Dust wrote:

Great, thanks for that clarification! It's a shame my home game is currently on hold for a few weeks or I would see if my GM would let me play a Medic.

By the way, do you plan to include a Medic Expertise that can be used to end bleed effects sometime down the line? I ask because many options that cause bleed such as the Cutting Gale strike from Tempest Gale (as well as the bleed condition itself) require either a DC 15 First Aid Heal check as a standard action or the application of magical healing to end the condition. While a Medic obviously has the ability to do the former, spending standard actions in-combat to stop bleed on yourself and allies can be rough.

Edit: Nevermind, I noticed the First Aid Training feat eases the pain of the action economy a bit.

There's all kinds of stuff in the document as both feats and expertises to allow medics to excel at clearing up conditions. I think the only things they really have trouble with are ability burn (which is Psionics only IIRC) and if they get paralyzed or something to prevent them from using triage. Overall I think the class manages to be quite solid, but not so much that it overwhelms other options to fill the role.

They can't heal negative levels either (witch doctor not withstanding) unless I've missed something so wands/scrolls of spells like restoration are still required.

It's definitely a solid class though and I doubt my GM would have a problem with me playing one when our weekly game starts up again since he's a big fan of the stuff Dreamscarred produces.

From the looks of it, in addition to their healing role, Medics also make great assassins thanks to their disciplines and their ability to assess the health of their enemies. I'll likely go down that route if/when I get the chance to try it myself. The ability to determine whether you are likely to dispatch an enemy in the surprise round sounds invaluable to groups of a more stealthy persuasion.

Yes, they do have a surprising amount of potential as assassins. Let me know if you get a chance to test one out, I love getting feedback.

Grand Lodge

Has a Play test version been added to Hero Lab?


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Raltus wrote:
Has a Play test version been added to Hero Lab?

No, why would it be?

We get asked about Hero Lab stuff a lot, and I keep having to explain it but Dreamscarred Press has nothing to do with Hero Lab. Any support or updating done to Hero Lab is done by Hero Lab, not us.

Grand Lodge

There is just some 3rd party DSP stuff on there so I wasn't sure if you guys there updated it or not.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Raltus wrote:
There is just some 3rd party DSP stuff on there so I wasn't sure if you guys there updated it or not.

I don't think Dreamscarred Press has anything to do with it. As far as I'm aware, it's just a member of the wolf lair forums who happens to like DSP books and is adding content from them during their own free time.

In regards to the Medic itself, I do find it odd that the class notes Dexterity as important for medics yet as far as I can tell, it doesn't actually benefit them any more than other martial classes. They don't even get any disciplines that are primarily based on ranged attacks. It seems like Tempest Gale would make more sense than Piercing Thunder given its reliance on Dexterity and the non-magical aspect of it seems more in keeping with the theme of the class.


Jack of Dust wrote:
Raltus wrote:
There is just some 3rd party DSP stuff on there so I wasn't sure if you guys there updated it or not.

I don't think Dreamscarred Press has anything to do with it. As far as I'm aware, it's just a member of the wolf lair forums who happens to like DSP books and is adding content from them during their own free time.

In regards to the Medic itself, I do find it odd that the class notes Dexterity as important for medics yet as far as I can tell, it doesn't actually benefit them any more than other martial classes. They don't even get any disciplines that are primarily based on ranged attacks. It seems like Tempest Gale would make more sense than Piercing Thunder given its reliance on Dexterity and the non-magical aspect of it seems more in keeping with the theme of the class.

The class also doesn't get more than any other out of Constitution (though their hit points are a bit fragile for my taste). The class is built to get "stuck in." That means they need AC, Reflex, Initiative, Acrobatics and Escape Artist in order to improve their defenses while they run around healing people.

All of that comes from Dexterity. In addition, Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility are built into the system, so DEX to damage is a very real probability for them. The necessity of dexterity is one that every martial class faces to an extent. The medic can live without dexterity, so can the Harbinger, Mystic and Stalker, but that doesn't mean they aren't better off capitalizing on it.


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There will probably be some major changes coming to the medic soon, but it will take a while to get them implemented, so I'll keep you posted as that happens.


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New medic update is released. Some of the notable changes:


  1. Triage hit point healing lowered at low and mid levels.
  2. Expertise gained at 1st (x2), 2nd and even levels. Expertise prerequisites changed to match.
  3. Cura te Ipsum comes online at level 3
  4. Resuscitation comes online at 9th level
  5. New class feature Greater Resuscitation added at 17th level.
  6. Base Medic starts with Tempest Gale instead of Piercing Thunder. Ambu-lancer trades Tempest Gale for Piercing Thunder.
  7. Archetype trades have been altered to match new scaling for Expertise and other class features.
  8. Sanguinist gets level instead of BAB for GUS progression.
  9. Blood Transfusion's extra damage mechanic clarified.
  10. Sanguinist now trades Cura te ipsum for new feature: Pain's gain.
  11. Unnatural vitality's wording has been fixed to prevent abuse and maintain status as DPR booster.
  12. Witch doctor's Thaumaturgic Medicine has been rescaled to go from 1-9th level spells instead of a custom list of 1-6. New list includes all healing spells plus a whitelist of additional spells detailed in the entry.
  13. Plague doctor feat has been altered to be less finnicky.

That should be everything.

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