So, I know that some time ago that a person was able to throw three ranged weapons a round with three feats: Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, and Rapid Shot.
Yesterday, a friend told me that this was no longer the case and that there was an errata\FAQ somewhere that denies it. I've looked at the FAQ and have the most "recent" download of the Core Rulebook, and I can't find anything that makes this particular feat chain "wrong". Did I miss something?
Quick Draw:
"Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat.
Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action."
Rapid Shot:
"Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round at your highest bonus. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot."
Two Weapon Fighting (in combat section):
"If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways. First, if your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light. Second, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.
Table: Two-weapon Fighting Penalties summarizes the interaction of all these factors.
Double Weapons: You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon was a light weapon.
Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon"
So with what is said above, a person could have three weapons thrown a round with a penalty of -4 (or -6 if the off hand is not light). Correct?
No, you've missed nothing. Your friend is mistaken.
Supposing you had enough feats, with TWF, Improved TWF, and Rapid Shot you could make 1 attack at BAB 6, BAB 1, one from TWF, and one granted from ITWF, and one granted from Rapid Shot.
You will take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls from Rapid Shot, and another -2 or -4 for light thrown weapons or non-light thrown weapons. Being a total -4 to -6 penalty to all attack rolls.
Without a focused build into throwing weapons (which basically requires being a fighter due to the shear number of feats required) it's going to be super ineffective. Ricochet Toss is basically required.
My personal preference for thrown weapons however is:
Starknives
Starry Grace - Dex to damage with Starknives - From Ultimate Intrigue
Startoss Style - By taking this feat chain you add +2 damage per feat
Trained Throw - Double Weapon Training bonus to damage
Between dex to damage and +6 extra damage from Startoss chain and up to +12 damage from trained throw your starknive throwing fighter will deal a lot of damage. However, they are prevented from TWF with either starry grace or Trained Throw, probably because they realize how insanely powerful it would be if you could do them and TWF with it.
I was considering a Slayer as he has full BAB, can get the Style Feats from Ranger, as well as Combat trick from Rogue.
6 Levels-
Human: Quick Draw
1: Two Weapon Fighting
2nd Level Talent: Style (Throwing) - Precise Shot
3: Point Blank Shot
4th Level Talent: Combat Trick - Rapid Shot
5: Weapon Focus (Haven't decided, star knives are looking nice with your feats pointed out)
6th Level Talent: Style (Throwing) - False Opening
Can provoke to make enemy flat footed for 4 attacks of sneak attack +2d6
Keep in mind that with False Opening your opponents do actually have to take the AoO and miss you in order for them to lose their dex to AC against you.
It could work out, but ideally your are going to want to stay in one spot and throw your weapons at the enemy. With them not being next to you.
It's also the sort of thing you can only expect to work once per combat.
Once someone sees you successfully accomplish it they're going to know "Okay, that guy opens himself up in combat on purpose to get you off balance. Don't take the bait."
One of these days I want to create a Warpriest or Fighter that combines thrown and melee. Maybe using Rapid Shot and Opening Volley *without* TWF to do something like Throw / Throw / *changegrip* / 2H-melee -5(+4OV) / Haste 2H-melee. Maybe with a Ragathiel Warpriest wielding a bastard sword and throwing knives, adding Destruction Blessing to everything. The requirements are a mess, but I bet it would be a lot of fun.
It would depend on enemy. I'd call BS if monster with low int decided to forgo AoO due to something bad happening to other guy. My current predicament though now is missing those two words "and miss". I might changeup some feats now because of that.
Thanks for pointing that out!
In any case, this subject got off topic. Thanks for the clarification. I'll see if my friend can reproduce the source he claims makes the setup illegal.
It would depend on enemy. I'd call BS if monster with low int decided to forgo AoO due to something bad happening to other guy. My current predicament though now is missing those two words "and miss". I might changeup some feats now because of that.
Thanks for pointing that out!
In my experience, you tend to not fight many unintelligent enemies after the first few levels. Or they're the kind that aren't affected by sneak attack like oozes or swarms.
But your right, it would be valid to say that the tiger would probably take his AoO regardless of what he saw you do.
But even the 6 int orc is probably smart enough to know he shouldn't open himself up to your stabbing.
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One of these days I want to create a Warpriest or Fighter that combines thrown and melee. Maybe using Rapid Shot and Opening Volley *without* TWF to do something like Throw / Throw / *changegrip* / 2H-melee -5(+4OV) / Haste 2H-melee. Maybe with a Ragathiel Warpriest wielding a bastard sword and throwing knives, adding Destruction Blessing to everything. The requirements are a mess, but I bet it would be a lot of fun.
In my recent thread about creating a thrown weapon build, I looked into maybe doing a switch hitter as a brawler. The fact that you can pick up feats on the fly means you can switch back and forth between combat types depending on the circumstance. It won't be as good as a dedicated thrower, but it'll have melee power that the pure thrower doesn't have. And it can still be pretty good with thrown weapons.
@Fromper, my thought on that is once you can pickup close quarters thrower or point blank master you don't really need to worry about melee anymore. You can fight at melee range using ranged attacks.