Pathfinder pregens or lack of


Pathfinder Society


I just got the community use package for the pregens which seems awful light considering how many iconic characters their are out there I would like to see them release all iconics that they can as pregens I know that they made one iconic as an evil class so he really cant be used as a pregen. by creating some classes as iconic pregens you have made a statement that you will release them all as pregens you can not pick and choose which ones you like and want to make

Shadow Lodge 4/5

They don't think it be like it is but it do.

Seriously though, the missing iconics will eventually be done. The PFS team has a lot on their plate and those iconics are pretty low on the priority end.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

It's also not like the current offering is LACKING in variety. There are, what, at least 29 unique pregen classes available? That will easily fill any party role that you could dream of.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Yep, there are just shy of thirty different classes represented among the current pregenerated characters. They are currently missing the Iconics from the Advanced Player's Guide and the Magus from Ultimate Magic (and the Unchained classes, I guess), but from what I've seen they are on the list of things that Management would like to get to. Until then, we'll have to settle for every other class that has been printed.

3/5

I kind of disagree. While there are veterans that from time to time need to play a pregen, the pregens (in my opinion) are for the brand new player who hasn't made a character yet. They can sit down at your table at a Tier 1-5 scenario at a Con or something, and learn to the play the basics. If they had fun and like the game they can then build their own character at that point.

If you make PFS legal pregens for all the Iconics and then offer those to the brand new player to pick from, the player is going to have 'choice paralysis'.

Not only that but it can drag the game down. For instance, I had a player show up at my table one time and she had brought with her the Arcanist pregen. While she seemed to have a slightly better grasp on gameplay basics there was things that come up with how the Arcanist pregen was supposed to work and I had no idea. I had never seen the Arcanist pregen before. I had never played an Arcanist before. I have never played or ran a session with an Arcanist before.

Now I wouldn't mind seeing pregens for all the Iconics - it's nice to see and compare the base idea the developers have for each class (and how it should work), but definitely not all of them being PFS legal. If I remember correctly, the VC for my area mentioned that at the next Comicon in our area (where we have a big presence and attract many new players) we will be providing Core Iconic pregens only. Now if they show up with their own Iconic pregen, we won't stop them - we are just only going to provide the Core class ones.

Course we also do character building workshops throughout the Con as well, so if they show up early, or stick around after their first session, we will help them make a character that is their own.

Just my personal opinion. Take it or leave it.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

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For brand new players, I find that asking them what they're interested in and then providing a curated choice of pregens based on that is the way to go, because not all pregens are created equal. For instance, if a player says that they're interested in playing a wizard, I'll recommend the Seoni pregen, or possibly the arcanist depending on how familiar they are with pathfinder.

4/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
zefig wrote:
For brand new players, I find that asking them what they're interested in and then providing a curated choice of pregens based on that is the way to go, because not all pregens are created equal. For instance, if a player says that they're interested in playing a wizard, I'll recommend the Seoni pregen, or possibly the arcanist depending on how familiar they are with pathfinder.

I just hand them Crowe, king of pregens.

Them: "I'd like to play a wizard."
Me: "You should instead play Crowe, because he's the wizard of bashing."
Them: "So is he actually a wizard?"
Me: "...of bashing, yes."

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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I personally only bring the core pregens and leave the rest at home, because I don't want new players trying to learn the Occult Adventures classes at the same time they are learning the game.

Silver Crusade

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I personally only bring the core pregens and leave the rest at home, because I don't want new players trying to learn the Occult Adventures classes at the same time they are learning the game.

Same here. I only ever bothered to print the 10 Core pregens (Harsk doesn't count), and I bring them to every con and game day, in case someone needs one.

4/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I find that there are a lot of experienced players grabbing pregens to fill table slots for which they don't have an appropriately leveled character.

Also, why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

I have printed out and laminated all of the pre-Occult pregens. They are in a 3-inch binder along with blank character sheets, faction cards, grapple flowcharts, and a few other PFS things, and they take up most of the binder.

I think there's already choice paralysis. We might as well keep adding more! (Schedules and priorities allowing, of course.)

Every now and then we break out a pregen we haven't tried before when we need to round out a table of 3 or something. My last attempt was Hayato. Early in the scenario he and his horse fell into a pit trap and he had no way of getting the horse out... the combined party didn't even have the carrying capacity to lift it! It was a complete Harsk moment.

Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

If I were to print them to have on hand I'd only do the ACG ones. I feel fine having any of those show up at a table.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

Wait, you had the first thread you made on the board locked, and the same post on the facebook PFS group locked and now you try again? Dude give it a rest.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

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Serisan wrote:
zefig wrote:
For brand new players, I find that asking them what they're interested in and then providing a curated choice of pregens based on that is the way to go, because not all pregens are created equal. For instance, if a player says that they're interested in playing a wizard, I'll recommend the Seoni pregen, or possibly the arcanist depending on how familiar they are with pathfinder.

I just hand them Crowe, king of pregens.

Them: "I'd like to play a wizard."
Me: "You should instead play Crowe, because he's the wizard of bashing."
Them: "So is he actually a wizard?"
Me: "...of bashing, yes."

He's clearly a singing ice...err lightning wizard of some sort.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

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Serisan wrote:

I find that there are a lot of experienced players grabbing pregens to fill table slots for which they don't have an appropriately leveled character.

Also, why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?

In case anyone wanted to go surfing on that enormous sword of hers?

Mark Seifter wrote:
Serisan wrote:
zefig wrote:
words

I just hand them Crowe, king of pregens.

Them: "I'd like to play a wizard."
Me: "You should instead play Crowe, because he's the wizard of bashing."
Them: "So is he actually a wizard?"
Me: "...of bashing, yes."

He's clearly a singing ice...err lightning wizard of some sort.

I once handed that song to a player using the pregen. I think that might become a mandatory addition to the sheet.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Serisan wrote:
zefig wrote:
For brand new players, I find that asking them what they're interested in and then providing a curated choice of pregens based on that is the way to go, because not all pregens are created equal. For instance, if a player says that they're interested in playing a wizard, I'll recommend the Seoni pregen, or possibly the arcanist depending on how familiar they are with pathfinder.

I just hand them Crowe, king of pregens.

Them: "I'd like to play a wizard."
Me: "You should instead play Crowe, because he's the wizard of bashing."
Them: "So is he actually a wizard?"
Me: "...of bashing, yes."

He's clearly a singing ice...err lightning wizard of some sort.

...and my day has just been made.

Grand Lodge

So 30ish pregenerated characters aren't enough for you to choose from?

I also like how you tell them that they cant decide to not make some of them since they've already made some others.

Sheesh.

The Exchange 5/5

You can always make some premade level 1 characters for the classes that don't have pregens, and hand them out if needed. This just won't work with players needing level 4 or 7 pregens.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, Canada—Manitoba aka Kess, Humble Servant of Abadar

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Serisan wrote:
Also, why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?

Amiir is much better looking, IMHO. The original Queen of kicking butt and taking names.

Silver Crusade

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Dave Baker wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Also, why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?
Amiir is much better looking, IMHO. The original Queen of kicking butt and taking names.

Or taking butt and kicking names, depending on what kind of mood she's in.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Last scenario I ran actually had a large magical bastard sword in it...

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd like to be able to 'try out' a Magus, an Alchemist, or a Cavalier without having to *build* the darn thing first and make a ton of mistakes on it.

That may make me weird, but having a solid viable character I can 'plug and play' when I'm trying things out is kind of neat?

That being said, I'm sure it'll come up someday, just need to hang on until then.

3/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

I'd like to be able to 'try out' a Magus, an Alchemist, or a Cavalier without having to *build* the darn thing first and make a ton of mistakes on it.

That may make me weird, but having a solid viable character I can 'plug and play' when I'm trying things out is kind of neat?

That being said, I'm sure it'll come up someday, just need to hang on until then.

I don't know where you can find the Magus, but for the Alchemist AND the Cavalier, play the Master of the Fallen Fortress. It's even tier 1, so you can play it twice. Or you could even play it 6 times total and also play an Inquisitor, Oracle, Summoner, or Witch.

Edit: Note these 6 lvl 1 pregens are only legal in that module for PFS. Technically if you have a GM that would be willing you can use those pregens outside of that module for non-PFS credit.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

David Hansen wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

I'd like to be able to 'try out' a Magus, an Alchemist, or a Cavalier without having to *build* the darn thing first and make a ton of mistakes on it.

That may make me weird, but having a solid viable character I can 'plug and play' when I'm trying things out is kind of neat?

That being said, I'm sure it'll come up someday, just need to hang on until then.

I don't know where you can find the Magus, but for the Alchemist AND the Cavalier, play the Master of the Fallen Fortress. It's even tier 1, so you can play it twice. Or you could even play it 6 times total and also play an Inquisitor, Oracle, Summoner, or Witch.

Edit: Note these 6 lvl 1 pregens are only legal in that module for PFS. Technically if you have a GM that would be willing you can use those pregens outside of that module for non-PFS credit.

David, I don't think those pregens are currently legal, even for use in MotFF, as they are built on a 15 point chassis, not a 20 point chassis.

If you search, though,m you should be able to find a thread by Nefreet with his sample builds for first level PFS-legal PCs for the APG classes, and the Magus, I think. Not sure how many he completed before he got sidetracked with another project, though.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Serisan wrote:
why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?

Because maximum optimization is not the end-all, be-all of character design

Paizo Employee Contributor—Canadian Maplecakes

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Because maximum optimization is not the end-all, be-all of character design

See, Heresy IS magic, everyone! :)

Dark Archive 5/5 Venture-Captain, Minnesota—St. Paul

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Because maximum optimization is not the end-all, be-all of character design

I don't like Crowe solely because he does more damage. Crowe gives a new player something to grow into, more than I feel Amiri does. An equal learning floor, but a higher ceiling.

First level, Amiri has Power Attack and Rage - good concepts to work with at first level, not overly complex. You do have to remember Killer, but critical hits are an easy trigger to remind you of that one.

Crowe gets power attack, but has furious focus - you explain to the player how Power Attack works in 95% of situations, but let them know 'there may be an exception - I'll let you know when it applies for now' (Likely on an AOO). Then rage, just like Amiri. But, he also has his Elemental Strikes to tack on once per day - not necessary, but something else for the player to use.

Then, level 4 - Amiri has rage powers (Guarded Stance and Powerful Blow) which are alright for learning - small buffs that you have to choose when to use, but don't have to use. Amiri just raging and power attacking works just fine, but there's room to grow with Cleave and her Rage Powers.

Crowe at level 4 touches on more opportunities, IMO. You can still Rage and Power Attack, and that will work fine, but now you get to learn about something new: Spells! He doesn't need them and there's a safety in place to keep the player from getting bogged down with options - there are only two! Neither are attacks, so you don't have to go over all the conditions for a ranged attack/ranged touch attack, and one of them is even Personal. So a player can learn about casting a spell, casting time, and casting defensively, but Crowe isn't useless if they don't feel up to it yet. (He starts with 3 more AC than Amiri - the shield boost is just icing).

This continues at level 7 - Amiri gets 1 more Rage Power (Surprise Accuracy) and a feat that isn't explained - Improved Bull Rush. But she's got iterative attacks now, so you can also fit in Full Attacks (if someone playing Lvl 7 Amiri isn't comfortable with/hasn't gotten a chance to full attack).

Crowe improves greatly but suffers a bit in usability at 7 as he increases to two pages - but those two pages are now amazing. Spell versatility is increased (level 2 spells, including Glitterdust and Burning Hands (elec)) and summary descriptions of all of his spells (including the potions/oils he has). He gets the full attacks like Amiri too. Best part: Even if you cut off the spells section completely, a player with level 7 Crowe is still a good, contributing member to the party (Handle Animal, Intimidate, Climb, Perception, CLW wand, composite bow) - something that some of the pregens have trouble with.

Anyway, I love Crowe, I've had plenty of new players love Crowe, Crowe is great.

NOTE: I am aware that a player can't go from playing Crowe as a Pregen to making their own Crowe.0 if they don't have the book - I think that's terrible reasoning and that we should just get rid of anything but Core pregens if that's your justification.

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've played Shardra at all three levels.

She starts off like pretty much any non-rage-gimmick 1st level, gets solid (no pun intended) at L4 and then becomes a team Swiss Army Knife by L7 based on play experience.

This is not a bad thing.

I'd hate to show up and wanting to play someone who can cast spells and fight with a sword (magus) and be given Crowe or Ezren... "But you'll do moar damage!"

4/5 Venture-Agent, Minnesota—St. Louis Park aka BretI

Serisan wrote:
Also, why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?

The obvious answer is some people want to play a pre-gen of a particular gender. I tell them go ahead and change the gender but still they often go for the one with the picture that calls to them.

On a mechanics basis, Amiri has:
Better Hit Points (although Crow almost catches up at level 7)
Better Will save (except at level 7)
Better skills
Less ACP
Better healing supplies

If you could swap out her sword at level 7 for a +1 Furious, they would be a lot closer in combat ability.

The ACG pre-gens are generally much better built than the previous ones. Part of it is new content, another part of it is Mark S. did an awesome job building Crowe.

I'll be honest here, Crowe is my favorite with Quinn a close second. Quinn has the jacket and skills, but Crowe has the song.

4/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bob Jonquet wrote:
Serisan wrote:
why would you ever give Amiri over Crowe?
Because maximum optimization is not the end-all, be-all of character design

Is your goal to allow the new player to feel like they're contributing? I find that is typically key to a fun experience. How about minimizing the amount of math they have to do, which intimidates a lot of players?

Amiri is flavorful and interesting. So is Crowe. The difference, especially for first level, is that Crowe is also easier to use and generally more effective. Crowe doesn't scare people away from the game. As Keith pointed out, as well, later iterations of Crowe also introduce additional concepts in bite-sized portions, which is appropriate for a new player. Crowe's design is the equivalent of Mario 1-1 as a tutorial.

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