Is there any way to use a Betrayer Feat without your ally having the same feat?
Be an Inquisitor.
Be an Inquisitor.
But you can only be the "victim" then.
I got Ally Shield on my Holy Tactician paladin, so her teammates can hide behind her in combat =) Lawful Good betrayal at its finest!
Be an Inquisitor.But you can only be the "victim" then.
But the Victim can't trigger this ability?
But the Victim can't trigger this ability?
Not the Betrayal feats, no.
Design Manager
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Betrayal feats are designed for good characters and masochists, not evil characters who want to backstab their allies. They're very much misnamed.
Your best bet is to talk to your GM about disregarding the limitation that prevents you from using Teamwork feat sharing abilities to designate an ally as the victim. That restriction exists to prevent hurt feelings at the table when a supposed ally makes you eat an arrow in their place, but hopefully you and your group are mature enough that if you're playing a campaign that uses Betrayal feats, you're also capable of separating your personal feelings from what a player's evil character did to your character.
Betrayal feats are designed for good characters and masochists, not evil characters who want to backstab their allies. They're very much misnamed.
Your best bet is to talk to your GM about disregarding the limitation that prevents you from using Teamwork feat sharing abilities to designate an ally as the victim. That restriction exists to prevent hurt feelings at the table when a supposed ally makes you eat an arrow in their place, but hopefully you and your group are mature enough that if you're playing a campaign that uses Betrayal feats, you're also capable of separating your personal feelings from what a player's evil character did to your character.
Well, they were designed for evil characters. But then bad characters needed permission which is just such a little goodie two shoes thing to do!
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Design Manager
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Well, they were designed for evil characters. But then bad characters needed permission which is just such a little goodie two shoes thing to do!Betrayal feats are designed for good characters and masochists, not evil characters who want to backstab their allies. They're very much misnamed.
Your best bet is to talk to your GM about disregarding the limitation that prevents you from using Teamwork feat sharing abilities to designate an ally as the victim. That restriction exists to prevent hurt feelings at the table when a supposed ally makes you eat an arrow in their place, but hopefully you and your group are mature enough that if you're playing a campaign that uses Betrayal feats, you're also capable of separating your personal feelings from what a player's evil character did to your character.
"Muahahahaha! I'm so evil, I'm going to dedicate time, training, and personal resources to allowing my minions to use me as a human shield! I'll be so selfless, those goody-goody adventurers will never see it coming! While I'm at it, I'm also going to donate to charity and open up an orphange to teach children how to be just as selfless as me! Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"
The thing is, the bad guy who takes a Betrayal feat and shares it with the group can't ever be the Betrayer, even with the group's permission, unless you ignore the restriction. So, they may have been put in a book dedicated to evil characters, but they utterly fail as evil options.
Well, they were designed for evil characters. But then bad characters needed permission which is just such a little goodie two shoes thing to do!Betrayal feats are designed for good characters and masochists, not evil characters who want to backstab their allies. They're very much misnamed.
Your best bet is to talk to your GM about disregarding the limitation that prevents you from using Teamwork feat sharing abilities to designate an ally as the victim. That restriction exists to prevent hurt feelings at the table when a supposed ally makes you eat an arrow in their place, but hopefully you and your group are mature enough that if you're playing a campaign that uses Betrayal feats, you're also capable of separating your personal feelings from what a player's evil character did to your character.
"Muahahahaha! I'm so evil, I'm going to dedicate time, training, and personal resources to allowing my minions to use me as a human shield! I'll be so selfless, those goody-goody adventurers will never see it coming! While I'm at it, I'm also going to donate to charity and open up an orphange to teach children how to be just as selfless as me! Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"
The thing is, the bad guy who takes a Betrayal feat and shares it with the group can't ever be the Betrayer, even with the group's permission, unless you ignore the restriction. So, they may have been put in a book dedicated to evil characters, but they utterly fail as evil options.
Which is pretty much exactly what I said.
They were MADE for evil characters. But at some point in the design process the devs decided it would dick over your party too much to not be voluntary. Which is why despite being evil themed, flavored, roasted, and designed that little aspect means you can't really be evil about them.
Aw... Betrayer isnt PFS legal? So not only cant I be the betrayer, but I also cant even be the arbetor?
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Aw... Betrayer isnt PFS legal? So not only cant I be the betrayer, but I also cant even be the arbetor?
Technically, it isn't they they specifically banned them, it's that the book they are in, Champions of Corruption, isn't mentioned at all in the additional resources. The assumption is that the lack of mention indicates that none of their rules are PFS legal. Though it could still be an oversight.
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The benefits went from evil-cool to contrived when I saw that the abettor has to get the feat as well. It takes the fun out of it.
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Design Manager
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The benefits went from evil-cool to contrived when I saw that the abettor has to get the feat as well. It takes the fun out of it.
Yeah, as previously discussed, they're Martyr feats, not Betrayal feats. Really there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed in PFS, other than a misleading designation that has nothing to do with their mechanical function.
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Not an oversight. When asked about it (around the time the book came out) they said they weren't planning on sanctioning anything from Champions of Corruption.Aw... Betrayer isnt PFS legal? So not only cant I be the betrayer, but I also cant even be the arbetor?Technically, it isn't they they specifically banned them, it's that the book they are in, Champions of Corruption, isn't mentioned at all in the additional resources. The assumption is that the lack of mention indicates that none of their rules are PFS legal. Though it could still be an oversight.
Still seems like they should mention it in additional resources, if only to say they decided against it.
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That would go against how the AR page is organized, though. If something isn't listed it's explicitly not allowed, so it would be odd to have an entry that was nothing but "Nothing from this book is allowed."
Which is a bit of a fault, in my opinion, as it leaves players unable to ascertain if things are missing rather than purposely omitted.