Barbarian superstition: yes or no???


Advice


I'm building an invulnerable rager for our next game. Don,t know yet what the others are planning to play...

But I was wondering based on your experience, should I take the superstition rage ability or not??

Thanks for your advices!!!


Yes. Always yes.


YES!!! In fact if you are human or a half breed of one you should put your FCB into making superstitious even better.

Scarab Sages

It's only really worth it if you are human and take the Racial FCB to increase it. Otherwise it's a nice power, but not mandatory.

It can also cause you to die in some instances, if you need a heal or condition removal during a rage.


It's one of the best rage powers to have.


I am too worried about the 'dying cause I saved against party spells' thing.

You can of course drop rage, but that has its own problems, and it can cause otherwise unnecessary delay that could be critical (ie- the cleric's turn comes before your turn, and he could have solved a status condition and got you back up a whole turn earlier).

It isn't like barbarians have bad saves, really. Fort is obviously great. And they have options with will saves (will boost, rage power to undo a bad willsave, etc.). Sure, reflex is meh...but it is reflex....

Also, it can make party buffs complicated. If you get a higher initiative roll than the bard...you might have to hold back your rage entirely (which means you will not only lack the bonuses against most spells, but also the general will save boost).

Overall, it is good, but you would be perfectly justified in finding that it isn't your flavor.

Liberty's Edge

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For the record, saving against Cure spells only halves their healing, not removes it. So...you're not super likely to die due to superstition. I mean, sans Raging Vitality just being a Barbarian can kill you, but Superstition doesn't make it much worse.

Also, Superstition doesn't require you to save against supernatural abilities, so Lay on Hands and Channel Energy work fine to heal a superstition Barbarian while raging, if anyone in the party has those.

And Superstition is, by 8th level, +4 to most saves in two categories and +2 in the third. Even without the Human FCB (which is admittedly amazing) that's a very solid Rage Power choice, and one I recommend.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

For the record, saving against Cure spells only halves their healing, not removes it. So...you're not super likely to die due to superstition. I mean, sans Raging Vitality just being a Barbarian can kill you, but Superstition doesn't make it much worse.

Also, Superstition doesn't require you to save against supernatural abilities, so Lay on Hands and Channel Energy work fine to heal a superstition Barbarian while raging, if anyone in the party has those.

And Superstition is, by 8th level, +4 to most saves in two categories and +2 in the third. Even without the Human FCB (which is admittedly amazing) that's a very solid Rage Power choice, and one I recommend.

...hp repair, while rather important, isn't the only thing to worry about. What about status conditions? Those can cripple a character. It is one thing I expect of a cleric, even if I fully respect the decision to not just be the party healbot- crippled characters can just ruin the entire party's action economy.

Lets not pretend the the wizard theorycrafters on these boards don't have loads of ways to deal with the high saves of a superstitious barbarian. Getting around saves entirely is one of the first things you do when doing wizard theorycrafting.

And sure, lay on hands and mercies can help with this... but that requires your party to have a paladin (which can chaff some people).


Yes, that's why having super high saves is great for a barb. I'd much rather have the enemy have a 10% to 40% less chance of giving me a negative status then to make it easy for the status to be removed during a fight.


Well, I feel foolish. I didn't realize that you would get half healing from making a save vs a heal, although I should have. Going to get yelled at tomorrow.

Deadmanwalking makes a lot of great points. Let me add a few others. Superstitious is a lead into a lot of other very useful rage powers.

Witchhunter is a nice damage boost against a lot of mid and higher end creatures.

Ghost Rager is incredibly useful if you encounter many incorporeal creatures, especially if you cannot find/make a ghost touch weapon.

Eater of Magic is enormously useful, getting a reroll once per rage against a spell/SU effect that may take your character out of the fight is amazing. Even using it to completely negate all damage from an high damage spell/SU is great.

Spell Sunder is another potentially very useful ability letting you suppress spell on creatures and even on items/area, permanently if you roll well enough. And it stacks with sunder feats, which not the best, can be useful.

Disruptive + step up feat is great for making enemy spell casters wet themselves. And leads into Spellbreaker rage power for even more unhappiness.

Liberty's Edge

lemeres wrote:
...hp repair, while rather important, isn't the only thing to worry about. What about status conditions? Those can cripple a character. It is one thing I expect of a cleric, even if I fully respect the decision to not just be the party healbot- crippled characters can just ruin the entire party's action economy.

True...but if it's that bad, you can just stop Raging and let 'em work on you. Fatigue and not raging sucks, but it's not the end of the world.

And most things that are that bad you get a Save against. As Chess Pwn notes, I'd rather get screwed 10% of the time than get screwed 30-40% of the time but have an easier way out of it.

lemeres wrote:
Lets not pretend the the wizard theorycrafters on these boards don't have loads of ways to deal with the high saves of a superstitious barbarian. Getting around saves entirely is one of the first things you do when doing wizard theorycrafting.

Sure, but most of those just do damage, rather than imposing debilitating conditions. Enervation is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't fall under that category, and enervation screws just about anybody.

Also, unless your GM is an ass, many enemies won't know your Saves are this good, and will thus waste at least one spell with a save on you before exploring additional options. Not all, but many.

lemeres wrote:
And sure, lay on hands and mercies can help with this... but that requires your party to have a paladin (which can chaff some people).

True. I did specify 'if anyone in the party has those'.

Silver Crusade

Ventnor wrote:
Yes. Always yes.


thanks everyone for the tips!! Very helpful...

So i understand that it's more useful than negative...

Any warning and any specific situations thought that I should be aware since i would resist even my parties buffing and Healing spells...


Sometimes it is a good idea to rage after you get your buffs, but otherwise just rage and destroy. :)


The idea is a lot of buffs will be up beforehand or cast in the first round and you delay till after the buff. Then you go to town and drop the enemies before you drop. Then you heal up afterwards.


Superstitious + Witch Hunter + Spell Sunder + Strength Surge + Eater of Magic = FTW!


Hey, for the condition removal, if you have a mesmerist in your party touch treatment is supernatural and 1 level dip into oracle makes you immune to fatigue by level nine, maybe there's something fun that could be done of it?
Really interesting discussion...new characters come to my mind!


I'm against Superstition but that's more of a theme thing then anything else. I just find it hard to see a Superstition Barbarian that's loaded down with magical gear when that same Barbarian is afraid of and doesn't trust magic.

Scarab Sages

So, there are a few things to consider with superstition.

1) Does your party have a channeling cleric? If so, then channel positive energy is not a spell, and you don't have to save against it. If your party doesn't have this, superstitious becomes less appealing.

2) Some people say Superstition, because it can get you ghost touch on your weapon with the next power down the line. However, there are other ways to get ghost touch weapons with the rage powers from the ACG.

3)The issue here is not actually healing, it's buffs. As a (probably) melee class, you can get hosed hardcore if you go up against a flying enemy, and the party wizard is trying to give you fly so you can go up there and kill him. If you get superstition, I would also suggest getting the rage power that lets you temporarily quit a rage for a round in case you SERIOUSLY need a buff.

ONE last thing!

In a PFS game, one time my Lore Oracle (tongues curse) was in a team with two barbarians, both with superstition. We hit the final boss, and my character is the only one who makes the knowledge-arcana check to figure out what's going on, only now combat has started and I'm speaking celestial (which no one else in the party speaks.)

If I hadn't manage to act first and cast tongues on the Barb, we might have failed the mission or TPKed, because the barbs couldn't figure out how to fight the creature.

Honestly, since extra rage power is a feat, and so is Iron Will, I'd just take iron will to shore up your will defenses, and maybe add the indomitable faith trait. Personally, I don't like superstition, but I know a lot of guys who swear by it.

Liberty's Edge

Matt2VK wrote:
I'm against Superstition but that's more of a theme thing then anything else. I just find it hard to see a Superstition Barbarian that's loaded down with magical gear when that same Barbarian is afraid of and doesn't trust magic.

Most actual superstitious cultures were willing to use magic, but only trusted that approved by their own shaman or the equivalent. Therefore, I see no problem with a superstitious person using magics approved by someone they trust (say, whoever is identifying the items).

Indeed, I don't think any real-world culture with a belief in magic has ever rejected it wholesale.


Matt2VK wrote:

I'm against Superstition but that's more of a theme thing then anything else. I just find it hard to see a Superstition Barbarian that's loaded down with magical gear when that same Barbarian is afraid of and doesn't trust magic.

Wouldn't a Superstitious Barbarian be more susceptible to magical effects because they fear hexes and curses?

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