Trying to get as many natural attacks as possible


Advice


How would you go about it? I see Magic Items that add claws/stings/bites/hooves/gore. Ragebred Skinwalker looks best to start with as far as I can tell, with hoof/hoof/gore. How do I go about maximizing natural attacks, and how should they best be utilized? Smite or sneak attacks looked the most tempting, but any opinions are appreciated.


A Vivisectionist Alchemist gives sneak attack and claw/claw/bite with the right discovery, which brings your skinwalker up to six. Add in Beastmorph and you're pouncing with all of that.


Bloodrager -> Dragon disciple perhaps? That will give you a couple claws and a bite as well as great hit points and BAB plus some spellcasting.


MeanMutton wrote:
Bloodrager -> Dragon disciple perhaps? That will give you a couple claws and a bite as well as great hit points and BAB plus some spellcasting.

This works really well, I just got done playing it. Get a furious amulet of mighty fists early. You can take the not-pfs legal primalist archetype and get a gore attack. Find a way to get a swift attack and with haste you will have 6 attacks at full BAB. You can later add a wyvren sting cloak. Claws work well early game because they cover all 3 damage types.


Arachnofiend wrote:
A Vivisectionist Alchemist gives sneak attack and claw/claw/bite with the right discovery, which brings your skinwalker up to six. Add in Beastmorph and you're pouncing with all of that.

"The right Discovery" would be Feral Mutagen, iIrc.

Some other ways to get Natural Attacks:

Be a Druid and Wildshape into a Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles with Grab and Constrict.

Slightly fewer but still many Natural Attacks would be to wildshape into a feline: 1 Bite and 2 Claws + a 2 Claw Rake.

Or a Megaraptor Dinosaur with 1 Bite, 2 Claws, and 2 Talons.

Tengu can start with 2 Claws and a Bite.

1 Level in White Haired Witch gives you a Hair Attack.

There are Witch Hexes: Prehensile Hair and Nails.

I guess you could be a White Haired Witch and multiclass with Hexcrafter Magus and get Prehensile Hair, Nails, and White Hair.

Beast Bonded Witches can turn into larger versions of their Familiars and get Natural Attacks like much like Druids can.

Helm of the Mammoth Lord gives you a Gore Attack.

Ring of Ratfangs gives you a Bite Attack.

The Tentacle Cloak gives you 2 Tentacles.

Kraken Call Druids get many Tentacle Attacks or just 1 big one.

There is a magic whip that you can graft onto yourself and give yourself a Tail Attack.

You can cast Monstrous Physique I and turn into a 4-Armed Sahaugin and get 4 Claws and a Bite attack.

The Alchemal Tentacle requires you use your regular attacks with it, but if you do, it won't impose penalties on your other natural attacks, since it is still a natural attack itself.


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The magic whip: Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail


Arachnofiend wrote:
A Vivisectionist Alchemist gives sneak attack and claw/claw/bite with the right discovery, which brings your skinwalker up to six. Add in Beastmorph and you're pouncing with all of that.

Speaking of Vivisectionist, you get Sneak Attack. Learn yourself Quick Dirty Trick, and use one of your many, many Natural Attacks to make your opponent Blind. Then all the rest of your attacks all do Sneak Attack Damage.

Take Cornugdeon Smash, Shatter Defenses, and Bludgeoner feats; then take Sap Adept, Sap Master, and Knockout Artist and do Double Sneak Attack Damage Dice +2 damage/per die! That will work for all your Blunt Natural Attacks, including Bite, Claws, Hair, and Tentacles. You will have to sacrifice your 1st 2 Attacks to gain the effect, but that may be well-worth it.

Take Hamatula Strike and get a free Grapple off of every Piercing Attack. Wear Armor Spikes and do Armor Spike Damage with every Grapple. Since the Grapple Check is a separate Attack Roll, they also do Sneak Attack Damage.


There's also the synthesist route.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
There's also the synthesist route.

Summoner is banned at the table. That's about all that is, though.

Lots of great ideas, thanks! Keep them coming.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
A Vivisectionist Alchemist gives sneak attack and claw/claw/bite with the right discovery, which brings your skinwalker up to six. Add in Beastmorph and you're pouncing with all of that.

"The right Discovery" would be Feral Mutagen, iIrc.

Some other ways to get Natural Attacks:

Be a Druid and Wildshape into a Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles with Grab and Constrict.

Slightly fewer but still many Natural Attacks would be to wildshape into a feline: 1 Bite and 2 Claws + a 2 Claw Rake.

Or a Megaraptor Dinosaur with 1 Bite, 2 Claws, and 2 Talons.

Tengu can start with 2 Claws and a Bite.

1 Level in White Haired Witch gives you a Hair Attack.

There are Witch Hexes: Prehensile Hair and Nails.

I guess you could be a White Haired Witch and multiclass with Hexcrafter Magus and get Prehensile Hair, Nails, and White Hair.

Beast Bonded Witches can turn into larger versions of their Familiars and get Natural Attacks like much like Druids can.

Helm of the Mammoth Lord gives you a Gore Attack.

Ring of Ratfangs gives you a Bite Attack.

The Tentacle Cloak gives you 2 Tentacles.

Kraken Call Druids get many Tentacle Attacks or just 1 big one.

There is a magic whip that you can graft onto yourself and give yourself a Tail Attack.

You can cast Monstrous Physique I and turn into a 4-Armed Sahaugin and get 4 Claws and a Bite attack.

The Alchemal Tentacle requires you use your regular attacks with it, but if you do, it won't impose penalties on your other natural attacks, since it is still a natural attack itself.

How do you keep the Octopus alive and mobile?

Liberty's Edge

I think there's a natural attack ranger that can add a few via feats.

I'm always surprised there was no feat for natural attacks akin to Improved Two Weapon fighting granting an extra attack or offhand to make up for the lost iteratives. That seems to be the big weakness of natural attack classes after mid-levels.


Rowe wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Be a Druid and Wildshape into a Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles with Grab and Constrict.
How do you keep the Octopus alive and mobile?

Giant Octopi do have a land speed, 20'. And as to "alive," I have heard compelling arguments that Wildshaping into an Aquatic creature does not take away your ability to breathe air, but I'm worried about that myself. Take a long look at the Polymorph rules, then talk about them with your GM.

If that's a problem, there is an Air Beathing Spell. There is a Bottle of Air Wondrous Item. Perhaps you could have made for yourself a Bottle of Water. You might just turn into a Giant Octopus for a combat. You might only do it for an aquatic situation, like the Skull and Shackles Campaign. If that's what's happening, and perhaps in any case, you might want to be more generalized in your Wildshaping approach, playing a human Druid who takes the Martial Versatility Feats and applies it to Weapon Focus and takes it again for Weapon Specialization, taking a level in Warpriest to get Sacred Weapon Damage on all Natural Attacks: 1d6 for a level 1 Warpriest. Then by level 8, all your natural attacks in all your forms will do 3d6 for a size Large creature or 4d6 for a size Huge, after buffing yourself with a Strong Jaw Spell. Then you can walk around as a Warcat most of the time, turning into a Quetzacoatlus when you need to Fly or a Giant Octopus when you need to Swim.


What about a Tengu Kraken Caller with claws via alt racial trait?


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Rowe wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Be a Druid and Wildshape into a Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles with Grab and Constrict.
How do you keep the Octopus alive and mobile?
Giant Octopi do have a land speed, 20'. And as to "alive," I have heard compelling arguments that Wildshaping into an Aquatic creature does not take away your ability to breathe air, but I'm worried about that myself. Take a long look at the Polymorph rules, then talk about them with your GM.

Polymorph spells don't turn you into another creature - they give you "the form of" another creature with very specific rules as to what abilities you lose and gain. None of those very specific rules say you lose the ability to breathe air.

The relevant rule covering what you lose:

Quote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.


Here's the latest version of a Wildshaping build I threw together.

Polymorph Melee Build

It follows that generalization route.


Personally, I would make a Tengu Kraken Caller. I would take the alternative racial trait that gives you two claw attacks instead of sword trained. Now then, unless you really want an animal companion, I would take a domain instead. The goal for me would be to use self buffing in order to try to balance quantity and quality. My first thought for your domain is Wolf, but I have not given that a lot of thought yet. I will likely be giving this more thought. Unless I hear otherwise, I will be building this with the assumption that it is for PFS.


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MeanMutton wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Rowe wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Be a Druid and Wildshape into a Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles with Grab and Constrict.
How do you keep the Octopus alive and mobile?
Giant Octopi do have a land speed, 20'. And as to "alive," I have heard compelling arguments that Wildshaping into an Aquatic creature does not take away your ability to breathe air, but I'm worried about that myself. Take a long look at the Polymorph rules, then talk about them with your GM.

Polymorph spells don't turn you into another creature - they give you "the form of" another creature with very specific rules as to what abilities you lose and gain. None of those very specific rules say you lose the ability to breathe air.

The relevant rule covering what you lose:

Quote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.

Ah, here is one of those "compelling arguments" I was referring to: thank you, Mean Mutton. I don't exactly disagree with you, but I think you should use the landlocked octopus form with caution. I can easily see a GM giving you problems with it.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Rowe wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Be a Druid and Wildshape into a Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles with Grab and Constrict.
How do you keep the Octopus alive and mobile?
Giant Octopi do have a land speed, 20'. And as to "alive," I have heard compelling arguments that Wildshaping into an Aquatic creature does not take away your ability to breathe air, but I'm worried about that myself. Take a long look at the Polymorph rules, then talk about them with your GM.

Polymorph spells don't turn you into another creature - they give you "the form of" another creature with very specific rules as to what abilities you lose and gain. None of those very specific rules say you lose the ability to breathe air.

The relevant rule covering what you lose:

Quote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.
Ah, here is one of those "compelling arguments" I was referring to: thank you, Mean Mutton. I don't exactly disagree with you, but I think you should use the landlocked octopus form with caution. I can easily see a GM giving you problems with it.

Totally agree. This should go into a "shenanigans list" that you give to your GM in advance of using it.


I could also see a GM not allowing you to use your White Hair while in Octopus form. But if you put on your Helm of the Mammoth Lord after turning into an Octopus, that should work just fine.


So, after doing a little research it seems that the Growth Subdoamin would be the best if all you wanted was raw power, while the Wolf Domain has more utility and shenanigans.


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Another idea is to make a Warpriest of Apsu. Once again I am talking about a Tengu with claws. If you choose your claws as your free Weapon Focus, you will then have three natural attacks that keep going up in damage.


The Clawed Tengu Warpriest is a very solid choice: well-rounded and powerful. Avoid dipping, but maybe take that level in White Haired Witch. Take Weapon Focus and maybe weapon Specialization for your Natural Attacks as you get them. They all do Sacred Weapon Damage. You also are getting Spells. At early levels, when you run into creatures with DR, you cast Align Weapon.

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
The Clawed Tengu Warpriest is a very solid choice: well-rounded and powerful. Avoid dipping, but maybe take that level in White Haired Witch.

Tengu don't have hair, though. GMs may well rule that the WHW archetype simply doesn't do anything for a tengu (in the same sense that although a Fighter can take Quicken Spell, the feat simply does nothing for him).


Kurald Galain wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
The Clawed Tengu Warpriest is a very solid choice: well-rounded and powerful. Avoid dipping, but maybe take that level in White Haired Witch.
Tengu don't have hair, though. GMs may well rule that the WHW archetype simply doesn't do anything for a tengu (in the same sense that although a Fighter can take Quicken Spell, the feat simply does nothing for him).

Technically, yes, and admittedly, I am all about the technically. But isn't that a pretty crappy thing for a GM to do: let you take a level in White Haired Witch then not let you use like the only class ability that the class offers? What that GM should do is not let you take that level in the first place: make you take some other Archetype.

Meanwhile, technically, it is not against the rules for Tengu to take a level in WHW, it just can't be illegal to apply that class's only class ability to your Tengu's feathers, a White Plumed Witch isn't really any different from a White Haired Witch.

Admittedly, denying White Hair to a Tengu is not particularly different from denying it to a Giant Octopus. Except that the player who is exploiting the rules to turn into a Giant (air-breathing!) Octopus and then decides to dip a level into WHW because 17 attacks/round aren't enough is kind of doing something different: using technicalities to control a player who clearly needs strong controls.

Still, you have a point.

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Technically, yes, and admittedly, I am all about the technically. But isn't that a pretty crappy thing for a GM to do: let you take a level in White Haired Witch then not let you use like the only class ability that the class offers? What that GM should do is not let you take that level in the first place: make you take some other Archetype.

To me, this is not about the technicality but about the flavor; if you don't have hair, it strikes me as a fair (although by no means universal) ruling that you can't use hair-based abilities.

I fully agree that the GM should warn you in advance. Although you probably shouldn't try this in PFS.


I do not know where, but I think it has been established that in PFS Tengu can not use super hair. Although, oddly, Nagaji can.


Nohwear wrote:
I do not know where, but I think it has been established that in PFS Tengu can not use super hair. Although, oddly, Nagaji can.

Oh, I would like it very much if you can find an official rule source on that topic.

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