Wondering how others handle handing out pregens


Pathfinder Society

4/5

Hi there everyone, was hoping to get some insight from people a little more experienced in PFS than myself.

The owner of the store where I coordinate events is looking to put together a pregen binder since as of late we have been a little haphazard with the availability of pregens.

I'm finding myself a little conflicted on how to manage offering them to new players. As much as I understand that pregens are supposed to be more of a sample of the game as opposed to an optimized choice it remains true that not all pregens are created equally.

The ninja pregen has no disable device, does paltry damage and has limited use out of combat.

The gunslinger at level one shoots every other round at a minus four penalty assuming that all enemies are in melee.

I have yet to talk to a player that understands what would viable tactics would be for the shaman pregen. It's possible this is a fairly powerful build but honestly nobody knows.

It feels overly negative to tell new players not to play a pregen because it's absolutely terrible but at the same given that there a number of extremely viable pregens it seems like players might have more fun with a character that's actually functional as opposed to one that is crippled by flavour or complexity.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Bottom line: Keep it simple for new folks.

When I have a new person who wants to play:
1) I found out if they've played pathfinder or D&D or something similar in the past.
2) I take into account the level we'll be playing
3) I find out if they're interest in hitting stuff with swords, healing people, or spell-casting

For your example, I'm thinking
1) No (or little)
2) level 1

Based on the above, I give them 1 or 2 options.
If we're talking level 1 and they're new? Very very few options
A) hit stuff with 1 sword or 2? Barbarian or fighter
B) healing people? Cleric or paladin
C) spell casting? Point out that at level 1, casters aren't real exciting. still commited? sorceress.
D) really want to be sneaky/rogue? Rogue

The other stuff is going to require a lot of hand-holding, and as the GM....

Yes, there's tons of things, but they can try those once they've played a little.

Exceptions:
Came with a buddy who will do the hand-holding for them -- and who knows another class. Add that class to the mix.
Really has heart set on class X. Okay....

4/5

I feel like "really has heart set on class X" is the one I'm having the most trouble with. We have a player who decided to model his PC on the ninja pregen because he really wanted to play a ninja. He took the character to level six before anyone pointed out to him that pregens aren't meant to be a guideline for character creation. I feel bad that the error managed to slip by us for that long but sometimes things happen. Granted, very few players manage a well optimized character for their first character but I can think of few things that turn off a player faster than having a character that gets progressively worse as others at the table improve and not having a easy reference on what would be a better alternative.

All things considered Society play should take into account that some players may be less social than others and may not seek out the advice of more experience players when trying to execute a character concept.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

It used to be that I left the choice entirely to the new player, but nowadays I tend to push people a little more.


  • I really prefer giving people the simple well-oiled martials unless they already understand Pathfinder. Zadim, Amiri, Seelah are all easy to play, have answers to several problems, not likely to suddenly die, and are good at their primary job.
  • If someone already has experience with a class, and that pregen is viable (basic stats, good for the scenario, not redundant in party) I'll suggest that as well.
  • I take a look at what the party already has, and try to identify a role where it's a little soft; I'm hoping that if the new players notice they were a valuable addition, they'll enjoy that.
  • I take note of what the scenario is about, to filter out pregens which can't really do those things. I won't send someone into the library with the fighter for example.
  • I try to get a feel for what sort of character the player wants to try out (race and/or class), and pick out pregens that can do that well. If the player wants a 2-weapon fighter, I'll show the Slayer but not the fighter.
  • I kick the really badly performing pregens under the carpet. Like the gunslinger, that at least on low levels just doesn't deliver what it promises.
  • Some pregens really aren't simple. Lem is pretty decent, but only in the hands of a more experienced player. Hakon is decent for most people but excellent for people who know PF well.

Apart from that, how you handle your physical material also matters. Some people laminate pregens so you can write on them with markers during the game and wipe off after. But I've noticed some people also like to take the pregen home, so I've been meaning to print the pregens on side of the paper and some promotional information about where we host games and how to contact us on the other side.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I think the key is to just talk to the player and be honest with them. Something along the lines of "Some of the pregens are ok, but they're never the most effective builds. And the pregen for ninja is one of the worst. I'd recommend trying a different pregen today, like the rogue, and talk to the experienced players about how to build a good ninja for yourself afterward."

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

My wife was running a special over the weekend and had a pseudo-BBEG cast Darkness simply because a player had decided before muster happened that he was dead-set on playing Harsk. No surprise, he couldn't meaningfully contribute to any of the other encounters. At least that player now understands the utility of darkvision!

I have also started trying to steer new players away from many of the worse pregens. I've seen poor choice in pregen ruin someone's first Pathfinder experience far too often.

4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

My first rule is never give out a pre-gen that I don't know how to run.

I don't have to have the character memorized, but I want to be sure that I can answer questions about it quickly.

If they come in with one of the other pre-gens, hopefully they know how it works. If I'm giving them one, I better be able to answer questions about it.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

If its a new player? I stick to the core rulebook pregens. While not always as optimised, it doesnt make a huge dent at lvl 1. Altough I do steer them away from the druid, as a pet makes it harder.
Seelah is a nice starter for someone that wants a martial.
Kyrah is a nice starter for the in between. Some martial, some casting, by no means a healbot.
And so on.

Do we have a player with some experience? Some PFS sessions under the belt, or understands tabletop from a different setting? The pregen section expands. While I'll always talk someone out of using the gunslinger at lvl one, a lot of pregens are viable to someone who can use tactics.

We have nearly all pregens laminated and on file. Because enough experienced players can use them. Forgot to bring an in tier character when tables change from a 1-5 to a 7-11? Take a pregen. Didnt know you could play but suddenly had the time and showed up? Take a pregen.
Table falls trough so we run an evergreen for fun? Take a pregen.'

Yoon totally saved the collective butts of the table of Sky Key Solution after one of the player characters accidentally leveled out of tier of the table, and his other character was not yet high enough.

TL:DR, I leave the final choice to the playerr. But depending on skill I will limit the selection the player can choose from.

5/5 5/55/55/5

"huh, why does this binder consist only of A barbarian a cleric and a slayer..."

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

I tend not to give people a pregen that they will need to buy a book to play as an actual character. That said, if a new player has a character already or has said they want to play a specific class, I will often give them the pregen of that class so they can get a taste of it.

4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

BigNorseWolf wrote:

"huh, why does this binder consist only of A barbarian a cleric and a slayer..."

Better than being asked how an Occultist's Implements work when you don't understand them.

Sovereign Court 1/5

New player?

Core only.

And if I can hide the druid sheet, I will.

Silver Crusade 4/5

What's everyone got against Lini? I've actually seen a newbie have a great time and save the party playing her.

I only have the Core pregens printed, too, but Harsk is the one I literally didn't bother printing. I have all the rest, but not that one, and not the non-Core classes.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Every pregens terrible:
Every pregens terrible...

The wizards spellbooks thinner than the the sharp edge of reality
with valeros dual wielding calling miss is mere formality
The one to pick I fear I must prognosticate
with cons that low i doubt at all they can coagulate

Why anyone would play a toon this bad remains a mystery
I can't believe you'd tolerate them in your character history
with Merisiels lack of social skills you will achieve
a little less p a then if you'd maxed out ranks in basket-weave

That I'd rather eat an otyug may speak to my neurology
but the saranite is limited to healing methodology
the thought of picking any one of them's unbearable
Harsk is bad beyond the worst but every pregens terrible.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Fromper wrote:

What's everyone got against Lini? I've actually seen a newbie have a great time and save the party playing her.

Pet rules. I just try and keep the game as simple as possible for a new player.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My first experience with pregens was Zadim, and it informed my decisions on my L2 training for my (then) TWF.

My second experience with pregens was Shardra, and while the L1 version can be a bit rough (though Kolo is one VICIOUS little monster at that level!) at L7 is where she *really* shines. L4 she's not too bad. For Shardra, realizing she's a bit of a Swiss Army Knife is the best way to run her.

My third experience with pregens was the *redacted* from *redacted*. It really helped me figure out some direction for my bard.

My fourth experience with pregens was **redacted** from **redacted**. It inspired me to create a Dark Tapestry Pirate. Arrrrrrr!

The last experience with pregens was Kyra, which was... almost kind of *boring* in comparison to Zadim, Shardra, *redacted*, and **redacted** in part because the party refused to get hurt and there weren't any undead in any of the chapters we encountered in Silverhex.

As far as 'handing out'? I personally print out the pregens I'd be inclined to play if a party needs it to be rounded out or if I'm trying to play in a scenario I don't have characters at the tier for. And then I can ask the table what they'd like me to run out of those choices PLUS it gives the option for a couple of others to play pregens if they, too, aren't in the right range.

I would disagree with BNW's lyric above, though. It's not that they're terrible, they just have an underlying 'mechanic' to them, and once you figure that out, they work decently enough -- and can inspire new characters.

5/5

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p-sto wrote:
I feel like "really has heart set on class X" is the one I'm having the most trouble with. We have a player who decided to model his PC on the ninja pregen because he really wanted to play a ninja. He took the character to level six before anyone pointed out to him that pregens aren't meant to be a guideline for character creation. I feel bad that the error managed to slip by us for that long but sometimes things happen. ...

I don't think this is all that bad. I would assume that this player had a lot of fun doing "ninja stuff." That they were enjoying it is the most important, regardless of character optimization.

Heck, some of the most fun I've had is when my character was completely ill-matched for the scenario.

If they have reached level 6, then I think the player should have enough experience with the game to to lead into a good conversation about character effectiveness. A first character doesn't need to be optimized until level 12. If it gets the player engaged and progressively learning more about the game, then it has gone right. At that point you can guide them to make character progression decisions that ensure the character remains fun, even if it isn't always particularly effective.

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

Lau Bannenberg wrote:


  • I kick the really badly performing pregens under the carpet. Like the gunslinger, that at least on low levels just doesn't deliver what it promises.
  • If you are going to do that get rid of the Mesmerist which is literally missing features in the later versions of the class.

    Quote:
    My fourth experience with pregens was **redacted** from **redacted**. It inspired me to create a Dark Tapestry Pirate. Arrrrrrr!

    In theory out side of one feat that pregen is completely Pathfinder Society legal.

    Quote:


    I would disagree with BNW's lyric above, though. It's not that they're terrible, they just have an underlying 'mechanic' to them, and once you figure that out, they work decently enough -- and can inspire new characters.

    Except for Melanister which is kind of a half malformed Mesmerist. Doesn't do well at melee and well never got past the other part to find out if hes a decent spellcaster. Given that at later levels he's missing class features he's probably not.

    4/5

    Mike Lindner wrote:
    p-sto wrote:
    I feel like "really has heart set on class X" is the one I'm having the most trouble with. We have a player who decided to model his PC on the ninja pregen because he really wanted to play a ninja. He took the character to level six before anyone pointed out to him that pregens aren't meant to be a guideline for character creation. I feel bad that the error managed to slip by us for that long but sometimes things happen. ...

    I don't think this is all that bad. I would assume that this player had a lot of fun doing "ninja stuff." That they were enjoying it is the most important, regardless of character optimization.

    Heck, some of the most fun I've had is when my character was completely ill-matched for the scenario.

    If they have reached level 6, then I think the player should have enough experience with the game to to lead into a good conversation about character effectiveness. A first character doesn't need to be optimized until level 12. If it gets the player engaged and progressively learning more about the game, then it has gone right. At that point you can guide them to make character progression decisions that ensure the character remains fun, even if it isn't always particularly effective.

    I haven't played with the player much but I did feel rather bad when the "ninja stuff" was more or less shut down when we ran into enemies with constant see invisibility. Thankfully it was an excellent GM managing the table who kept the 10 Con front liner in the game by allowing some rather questionable stealth checks instead of just pasting the poor soul.

    To me a large part of the problem is that it seems some of the pregens are made with a total disregard for the basic mechanics of the game.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

    Oh, I haven't even printed the Occult pregens yet. I'm not gonna give people a class I don't thoroughly understand myself.

    I've actually seen Harsk be a good fit several times. It's not every time, but he's sturdy and can take a beating, and he's got outdoorsy skills. If that's what the party needs, then think of him as your woodsman who happens to be handy with an axe. Just don't think about the crossbow.

    Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

    Lau Bannenberg wrote:

    Oh, I haven't even printed the Occult pregens yet. I'm not gonna give people a class I don't thoroughly understand myself.

    I've actually seen Harsk be a good fit several times. It's not every time, but he's sturdy and can take a beating, and he's got outdoorsy skills. If that's what the party needs, then think of him as your woodsman who happens to be handy with an axe. Just don't think about the crossbow.

    He kinda saved your bacon when you were all stuck in the mud as I recall.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

    Tineke Bolleman wrote:
    Lau Bannenberg wrote:

    Oh, I haven't even printed the Occult pregens yet. I'm not gonna give people a class I don't thoroughly understand myself.

    I've actually seen Harsk be a good fit several times. It's not every time, but he's sturdy and can take a beating, and he's got outdoorsy skills. If that's what the party needs, then think of him as your woodsman who happens to be handy with an axe. Just don't think about the crossbow.

    He kinda saved your bacon when you were all stuck in the mud as I recall.

    Yeah. If you need someone to tank multiple poisonous monsters for several rounds as the rest of the party tries to get through the bog, Harsk's your man.

    5/5 *** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

    Occult pregens seem more like they're meant for experienced players, rather than the newbies. The Mesmerist and Psychic seem easy enough, and maybe Yoon too, but the others have too many fiddly bits. When your pregen reaches 3 pages, you know your class is too complicated. To be fair, lots of Core pregens could do with a little more expanding on their powers and spells. The Occultist has nearly an entire page just to explain what his spells and combat gear are, while the Wizard has just "these are your spells. Good luck!"

    In all honesty, the Occultist is pretty easy at its core. You put points in a thing, you get a reward. Spend points for more rewards. If all the points are gone, you don't have the reward anymore. The focus powers are the only fiddly bits when choosing them, but as a pregen, they're pretty straightforward. The class requires some reading, that's true, but if you get handed the pregen, it does exactly what's on the tin. There's just a bit of analysis paralysis as there are so many options. Now, the Spiritualist, with a spirit in three different forms, that gives different bonuses in each form, that's quite a headache.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

    Some of the Advanced Class pregens are also, well, advanced. I'm not likely to hand someone the shaman or arcanist unless they already know how those classes work. I also hesitate with the brawler; I don't want a player stuck trying to choose combat feats.

    But the slayer is simpler than some core pregens and his combination of high to-hit, high crit chance and all that while maintaining a healthy set of skills, make him fun for new players. Since he's so low-maintenance, he's also a good choie if you're filling out a table of experienced players.

    Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

    Generally speaking, everyone is told they can play what they want but recommendations are given based on player experience and desires. The players at the table will frequently make recommendations the will help fill out party balance. Most of the time we recommend the Core classes to new players. The most frequently selected pregens are the Cleric, Paladin, Fighter, Rogue and Sorcerer. If the player does want to play one of the less optimized pregens we let them know they can play it if they want but it is weak.

    Scarab Sages

    Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


    My first experience with pregens was Zadim, and it informed my decisions on my L2 training for my (then) TWF.

    My second experience with pregens was Shardra, and while the L1 version can be a bit rough (though Kolo is one VICIOUS little monster at that level!) at L7 is where she *really* shines. L4 she's not too bad. For Shardra, realizing she's a bit of a Swiss Army Knife is the best way to run her.

    My third experience with pregens was the *redacted* from *redacted*. It really helped me figure out some direction for my bard.

    My fourth experience with pregens was **redacted** from **redacted**. It inspired me to create a Dark Tapestry Pirate. Arrrrrrr!

    The last experience with pregens was Kyra, which was... almost kind of *boring* in comparison to Zadim, Shardra, *redacted*, and **redacted** in part because the party refused to get hurt and there weren't any undead in any of the chapters we encountered in Silverhex.

    As far as 'handing out'? I personally print out the pregens I'd be inclined to play if a party needs it to be rounded out or if I'm trying to play in a scenario I don't have characters at the tier for. And then I can ask the table what they'd like me to run out of those choices PLUS it gives the option for a couple of others to play pregens if they, too, aren't in the right range.

    I would disagree with BNW's lyric above, though. It's not that they're terrible, they just have an underlying 'mechanic' to them, and once you figure that out, they work decently enough -- and can inspire new characters.

    Kyra at level one is damn near a better fighter than Valeros. I frontlined both Thornkeep level 1 and Crypt of the Everflame with her. I was with mostly new players at the Thornkeep, who picked 2 casters and the fighter as their pregens. Only one person had their own PC in that group.

    4/5 *

    I have one word on pregens for new players: Kyra.

    If they like to fight, she can do that.
    If they like to cast spells, she can do that.
    If they like to heal, she can do that.

    If the player isn't new, or has played other games and thinks they know what they want, or is playing a pregen to try something new, then that's a different story, but I still try to keep them on the Valeros/Seoni/Meresiel/Kyra list if possible. I don't carry prints of the others with me to most non-Con games anymore.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

    Zadim is only slightly more complicated that Valeros (sneak attack, studied target) but so much more effective..

    Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

    If people in my FLGS grab the level 7 ninja pregen, I make sure they at least correct the HP on it...

    Being more on point, we let folks grab what they want to play, and if they don't know we grab a couple of options and let them choose from there. It works out in the end. Our GMs are seasoned enough to know about the pregens and their capabilities, and can help people pick the right ones for what they want to achieve in the game.

    Given that most people make their own character for the next session, discussion of pregen capabilities rarely comes up in anything but a theoretical sense.

    1/5

    At our FLGS we have a box that started out with one copy of every legal pregen in it. When a true new player walks in we generally try to guide them to the mechanically simpler choices as it makes their first few sessions easier. For people who have player PF and are either new to our group or new to PFS we generally let them pick whatever they like with some warning if they seem to be on the verge of picking one of the really bad ones.

    On this note, Could we please get new pregens of the CRB/unchained classes? Very few if anyone cares if they are the iconics but lots of people do care that we could hand them to new players and have them be well built PFS legal -1 characters that people could play simply by giving them there own name. Maybe even a few variants on the common themes for those classes would be good.

    4/5

    Jessex wrote:
    On this note, Could we please get new pregens of the CRB/unchained classes? Very few if anyone cares if they are the iconics but lots of people do care that we could hand them to new players and have them be well built PFS legal -1 characters that people could play simply by giving them there own name. Maybe even a few variants on the common themes for those classes would be good.

    There's no reason you can't do this yourself. I've already done up a couple. Any legal, 0-XP, 150-GP PC can be picked up and played by any new player. It doesn't matter who created it. The only thing special about the pregens is that they come in not-brand-new flavors (including the level-ones that usually have more than 150gp of wealth).

    Sczarni 4/5

    Fromper wrote:

    What's everyone got against Lini? I've actually seen a newbie have a great time and save the party playing her.

    I only have the Core pregens printed, too, but Harsk is the one I literally didn't bother printing. I have all the rest, but not that one, and not the non-Core classes.

    She has summon nature's ally on her spell list, without stats/choices for what she can summon

    Silver Crusade 4/5

    Earl Gendron wrote:
    Fromper wrote:

    What's everyone got against Lini? I've actually seen a newbie have a great time and save the party playing her.

    I only have the Core pregens printed, too, but Harsk is the one I literally didn't bother printing. I have all the rest, but not that one, and not the non-Core classes.

    She has summon nature's ally on her spell list, without stats/choices for what she can summon

    Good point. I hadn't thought of that. But I also haven't ever seen it come up. When a newbie plays her, they tend to stick to the prepared spells and forget about the spontaneous summoning.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

    I had a newbie use SNA-1 to summon an eagle, then gnome racial Speak With Animals to tell it to carry a healing potion to a character trying to revive a certain NPC who needs it in The Confirmation. I was pretty impressed the player came up with that.

    The Exchange 5/5

    Lau Bannenberg wrote:
    I had a newbie use SNA-1 to summon an eagle, then gnome racial Speak With Animals to tell it to carry a healing potion to a character trying to revive a certain NPC who needs it in The Confirmation. I was pretty impressed the player came up with that.

    ah... it only lasts one round at first level right? how did she have TIME to tell it what to do and get it to do it? ... Grab potion, next round summon, next round tell it to carry this over to that guy, ... yeah, maybe it would work. Good timing would be important (if I tried that, the darn bird would bite my hand and take my glove to the target! lol)

    1/5

    GinoA wrote:
    Jessex wrote:
    On this note, Could we please get new pregens of the CRB/unchained classes? Very few if anyone cares if they are the iconics but lots of people do care that we could hand them to new players and have them be well built PFS legal -1 characters that people could play simply by giving them there own name. Maybe even a few variants on the common themes for those classes would be good.
    There's no reason you can't do this yourself. I've already done up a couple. Any legal, 0-XP, 150-GP PC can be picked up and played by any new player. It doesn't matter who created it. The only thing special about the pregens is that they come in not-brand-new flavors (including the level-ones that usually have more than 150gp of wealth).

    The problem would be the lack of official imprimatur which would make them unacceptable to some people to be recommending to new players.

    Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

    Spike E. Bits wrote:
    Lau Bannenberg wrote:
    I had a newbie use SNA-1 to summon an eagle, then gnome racial Speak With Animals to tell it to carry a healing potion to a character trying to revive a certain NPC who needs it in The Confirmation. I was pretty impressed the player came up with that.
    ah... it only lasts one round at first level right? how did she have TIME to tell it what to do and get it to do it? ... Grab potion, next round summon, next round tell it to carry this over to that guy, ... yeah, maybe it would work. Good timing would be important (if I tried that, the darn bird would bite my hand and take my glove to the target! lol)

    Round 1, summon; eagle appears at start of round 2; grab potion, Speak With Animals: "grab this can carry it over to him".

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