| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I would like a clarification in regards to the Polymorph Rules, specifically this:
Now the question: If I shift to a form that has a natural attack that includes say, 1d6 acid damage, and that acid damage is not from a Supernatural (Su), Extraordinary (Ex), Spell Like (Sp) or similar ability, do I still gain the acid damage?
Likewise, what about ability damage and drain on a natural attack?
For consideration: Monstrous Physique and Plant Shape
Examples:
Popobala, Bestiary 3: bite +25 (2d6+6 plus 1d4 Cha drain), 2 talons +25 (1d6+6 plus grab and popobala fever), 2 wings +20 (1d6+3)
Viper Vine, Bestiary 2: bite +23 (2d6+8/19–20 plus 3d6 acid), 4 tentacles +21 (1d6+4 plus grab)
In the Popobala example, I know that I don't get the popobala fever - it's from a supernatural ability with the same name. However, the CHA drain is not from any ability on the monster's sheet. It's not explained anywhere. Do I still get this from Monstrous Physique if I become a Popobala?
Similarly, the viper vine's acid damage is never mentioned in the abilities section or explained.
Are these extra damages/effects bestowed by polymorphing, and part of the natural attack, or are they separate but not called out as such? And if so, how does one know if these add-ons are separate from the natural attacks if they are not called out specifically in the stat block?
This recently came up while building a character, and it seems that there is no clear answer with regards to this specific situation. It's an issue because some monster options for polymorph spells such as Monstrous Physique or Plant Shape are much more appealing if these forms of attack are valid.
I have yet to find a definitive answer in the FAQs or forum search but have seen this question asked many times and never answered.
EDIT: Changed the title and the opening sentence.
My understanding is that you only get the physical limb, not the gland or whatever produces the acid, disease, spore, etc. I've never seen an actual clarification on the matter though, just a bunch of posts asking similar questions.
Although that calls into question eligible creatures whose natural attacks ONLY do elemental damage (rare), like Phycomid which are essentially worthless combatants.
I'm of the opposite school of thought; as you mentioned, this unique form of damage is literally part of the natural attacks, and the Polymorph rules, as you quoted, say you get all of those. It doesn't say anything to distinguish acid and ability damage any differently than it does bludgeoning and slashing.
I'm with Saethori on this one. Not sure what the official stance might be though.
My opinion is that you would gain those effects since they don't fall under the ban clauses.
(It is possible that the author, who designed the critters, made an error which was overlooked by the editor. Typically things like the CHA drain are defined as a supernatural ability in the description, and the CHA drain should probably be one too. But since they are in official books, that is how things are.)
Given how far polymorph/shapechange have fallen, I think that a small boon here and there is in order, too :)
For another example of polymorphing confusion, take a look at creatures like the dreaded catoblepas. Does someone using beast shape IV gain it's breath weapon?
The Poison Breath extraordinary ability is not listed under the spell, so one might argue that you DON'T get it. However, breath weapons ARE listed under the spell (of which Poison Breath is clearly listed as under special attacks), so others might argue that you DO get it.
Yet still other people might argue that you get the breath weapon line of the stat block, but not the Poison Breath line. That begs the question, what then?
One might also wonder, is the catoblepas Huge-size with its 15-foot space and reach, or is it Large-size per its listing and size modifiers?
Specific trumps general. While the Polymorph rules say you don't get extraordinary abilities, Beast Shape and cousins explicitly say you gain certain abilities if the form has them.
As for size, that's a rather serious oversight. If it's 15x15, it's not Large. But its statistics assume Large (such as only a -1 size penalty to AC) so I think Large is intentional.