| Akerlof |
I have this boss planned for a later point in my new campaign and I need some help with CRing it.
Here's a link to it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dr4kxo4takwrny/the%20swine%20king.docx?dl=0
Comparing to the Table: Monster Statistics by CR from the Bestiary section on monster creation, you have:
AC: 22 = Between CR 8 and 9 (Actually 20 since he's blinded = CR 7)
HP: 88 = Roughly CR 7
Attack: +13 = CR 7 (Actually +11 since he's blinded = between CR 5 and 6)
Average Damage: 29 = CR 7 (Note the attack and damage are in the "high" range for the CR, which is appropriate for a melee bruiser type monster. Also, with a BAB of 1, Power Attack doesn't make much difference.)
Ability DCs: N/A
Good Save: 10 = CR 7
Bad Saves: 0,-6 = CR 1/2 at best
He's blind if an enemy isn't marked, and once he hits a marked enemy that removes the mark. That should lower his CR. Most of his raw numbers would put him around CR 7, but since he's blind and can only make one attack per enemy (his rage ability is basically the feat whirlwind attack, and a fighter would easily get that by level 6 or 8 so it shouldn't affect his CR.) I'd probably put him around a CR 5. Being immobile and blind, so that he has a 50% miss chance on everything he swings at really reduces the danger level. But, the problem with that is, he hits hard, so if you're trying to run him as a boss type enemy with a CR of a couple higherthan APL, you have a high risk of one shotting level 2 and poorly built level 3 characters.
But, it really isn't built correctly. a 15d8 abberation should have 157 HP (82.5+75 from Con 20.) Also, a 15 HD aberration should have BAB 11, base Will save of +9, base Fort and Ref saves of +5 before modifiers.
You can certainly create the monster the way you want to. But if you read the Bestiary section on monster creation, you can use the rules as guidelines and get a decent monster.
What's most important, though, is how your party can deal with this guy. Do they have several squishy meleers where one solid roll can kill them, or do they have one or two really sturdy front liners that can shrug off a 30 point hit? Or do they have ranged players who can plink him to death at will? Will they play smart by pounding on him until he lands a hit, then pulling back as a group to heal up, then go back in when it's safe? Or will they be mulish and try to fight it out mano y mano? Do they have a caster who will take advantage of that Will save (if I were a Cleric in your group, I'd cast Command: Drop and have someone ready an action to grab his sword when he drops it. Fight over.)
| Gilfalas |
I have this boss planned for a later point in my new campaign and I need some help with CRing it.
Here's a link to it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dr4kxo4takwrny/the%20swine%20king.docx?dl=0
You may want to note that a character loses it's dexterity bonus when flat footed, not it's dexterity penalty so it's flat footed AC should be just as bad as it's normal AC.
| Pizza Lord |
Okay, I think there's some other things you need to address before I can really give you a CR. Obviously this is a custom monster and should fit your story. But, being the Rules section, I have to mention some areas of concern that you need to address. Again, I have no description of the Swine King, what it/he looks like. Is it a tall humanoid figure, like a giant. Two arms, two legs (but immobile)? I assume it has two arms and hands, since it uses a Greatsword and seems to have no natural attacks listed. Maybe your stat block is just incomplete.
1. Init -8.
Okay, so -4 for its Dex of 2. And I suppose you are applying a -4 for being Blind as Initiative is a Dexterity-based check. However, if this creature has been Blind for a long time, or is naturally blind. It probably shouldn't have this penalty without a good reason.
2. AC 22. Touch 6, Flatfooted 26 (16 Natural, -4 Dex)
AC should be 20. Base 10 + 16 (natural) - 4 (Dex) - 2 (huge size).
You could also have an additional -2 for the Blinded condition, but I might wave this for the same reason as above if the Swine King is naturally blind. It still counts as losing Dex bonus against attackers, not that it has a bonus, but for purposes of Sneak Attacks and such.
3. HP 88 (15d8 +22)
Seems a little low to me. First off, his Constitution is 20, that means the modifier to HD is +5 each. That's +75 hit points on top of the 15d8 right there. Assuming an average 4.5 hit points per HD (and this seems to be a unique monster so it should probably have a bit more) that's 67(.5) right there. So a creature like this should normally be in the neighborhood of 142 hit points, probably more.
4. Fort +10, Ref -6, Will 0
An Aberration usually has good Will saves. This need not always be true (custom creature of course,) but a 15 HD Aberration's base saves should be Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +9. Factoring in the Swine King's Con, Dex, and Wis modifiers would give you saves of:
Fort +10, Ref +1, Will +8. Again, just going be the normal guidelines.
5. Melee: Gargantuan Greatsword (4d6+12)
First, I'm noting that this is a Gargantuan weapon, but the Swine King is only Huge size, since I don't see any Oversized Weapon qualities or such, he will have a -2 to attack with this weapon.
Second, a medium-sized greatsword is 2d6. Large is 3d6 and (while possibly debatable based on the weapon sizing tables) a Huge greatsword should be 4d6 and a Gargantuan one about 6d6.
So the damage should be 4d6 if you intended a huge greatsword or 6d6 if intend a gargantuan greatsword.
Then you need to add Strength and half to that, because it is a 2-handed weapon. Strength of 34 is +12, as you have listed, but Strength and a half brings that to +18.
BAB +1
This may have been a typo on your part, but BAB +1 for a 15 HD creature is wrong. Aberrations have a medium BAB progression (3/4 HD) so it should be BAB +11. In other words, he gets 3 attacks per round at +11, +6, and +1. Factoring in a Str modifier of +12, that means he swings his Gargantuan Greatsword at +21/+16/+11 (factoring in a -2 penalty for a weapon of inappropriate size.)
CMB +14, CMD +20 (cannot be tripped)
CMB = BAB + Str + Special size modifier. So CMB for Swine King should be 25 (11 + 12 + 2)
CMD = BAB + Str + Dex + Special size modifier + misc. So CMB for Swine King should be 21 (11 + 12 - 4 + 2). Possibly with an additional -2 for being Blinded, though I wouldn't.
Feats: Power Attack, Awesome Blow
A 15 HD creature should have 6 feats. 1 at 1st and 1 for every 3 HD after.
Typically, to have Awesome Blow, you must have the feats Power Attack, and Improved Bull Rush (as well as size and Strength requirements which the Swine ing easily meets.) Obviously in this case, being a custom creature and Improved Bullrush being useless since it is immobile, this can be waived and there is no real problem, since the Swine King's size, strength, and temperament easily lend themselves to visions of him knocking foes flying, this is acceptable. (I don't like it however, since it uses a standard action and sends a foe outside of the Swine King's reach, where they might just start shooting arrows or something instead. Much better to let it use its 3 normal attacks.)
Some suggestions could be:
It will take high Perception skills to meet the improved Blind-Fight requirements, but should be reasonable for the Swine King to have good hearing or other senses besides vision and Perception is about the only actual skill, other than Intimidate, on an typical Aberration skill list that makes any sense for the Swine King to spend points on. He's not likely to be using Acrobatics, Climb, Stealth, or Swim.
Cornugan Smash and Intimidating Prowess could be good if skill points are put into Intimidate. The Call Out feat might be interesting to use, though I don't know exactly what constitutes a 'duel' in this case. This is also supposing that the Swine King can issue a challenge through a grunt or growl if he can't speak (and assuming he's at least pinpointed a target with his hearing and Perception.)
Special Abilities: Enraged Destruction Might have to mention how long he's in a 'mighty barbaric rage' when Wilbur is hurt. Is it just 1 round, is it for as long as Wilbur is hurt? I see it last the rest of combat if Wilbur is killed, but still. Also, should mention exactly what 'mighty barbaric rage' does; Str bonus, AC penalty, Con bonus, etc. Don't want to have to look that stuff up in a different place.
Wild SwingBasically a Whirlwind attack but with a 30 foot AoE. This is really big, since a typical Huge creature standing upright has 15-foot reach. There needs to be a real good explanation for this, like suddenly extending long, rubbery arms or something. Probably needs to be changed though.
Psych Up Pretty much worthless as written. Takes your turn to activate, and last a round, which means it wears off just as your new turn starts. Basically you'll gain some hit points while raging, but since you can't attack (and being blind means no AoO) the other bonuses are probably worthless. It needs to last a few rounds at least and you should mention what benefits this rage provides, since it sounds different than the 'mighty barbaric rage' when Wilbur is harmed.
All in all, I don't know how this creature would stack up, since I don't know how it interacts with 'Wilbur' other than in some minor ways. I can tell you that it will probably not be much of a challenge at all other than if the PCs start right next to it and it gets some lucky hits in first (passing its miss chances for being blind). I would guess this would be a CR 4 overall. A 4th-level party probably has the ability to hang back and just arrow/magic missile/flaming oil/ anything it to death.
It obviously can do a lot of damage if it hits (probably about CR 7-8 range damage) but it can't move, it can't really see, it's abilities mostly depend on another creature, it has no real defense, or immunities (poison not really coming into play). It has basically one type of attack. There's plenty of way to remove its greatsword from play, obviously Sundering would be tough with the weapon's hit points, but it's not magic, it can be disarmed, or Stun-dropped, or a number of things that means... he's doing unarmed damage (high though it is) and provoking AoO to do it. He has no natural Slam or bite or gore to fall back on. This seriously curtails any threat it provides unless you end up blundering into it and getting attacked.
It probably needs a way to move, if even an At Will dimension door ability of some kind. Or protection from arrows or DR or something.
| wraithstrike |
I would also suggest that you use the same format that Paizo uses so it is easier for you and those of us here to catch any mistakes.
| Pizza Lord |
Sorry I didn't realize you had mailed me the Swine King's stats. I would have replied sooner. I'm just gonna reply here in your thread, though it will probably get moved to Advice or Homebrew soon enough.
Just for anyone else's benefit, though the formatting may be a bit off:
This huge pig-like abomination hides a smaller pig behind it. Its guts rest on the floor, oozing a brown, thick, liquid substance onto the floor.
NE Huge Aberration Init -8 Sense Blind
DEFENSE
AC 22 touch 6 flat footed 22 (16 natural -4 dex)
HP 150 (15d8+75)
Fort +10 Ref -6 Will +0
Immune Poison DR10
OFFENSE
Speed Immovable
Melee Gargantuan Greatsword 21/16/11 (6d6+18
STATISTICS
STR 34 DEX 2 CON 20 WIS 8 INT 8 CHA 13
BAB +11/6/1 CMB 21 CMD 20 Cant be tripped
Feats Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Cornugon Smash , Hammer the Gap, Cleave, Dreadful Carnage
Skills Intimidate +14, Perception +17
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Enraged Destruction (Ex): Enters mighty barbaric rage until the end of his next turn if companion Wilber is hurt. Enters mighty barbaric rage for the rest of the combat if Wilber is killed.
Long Arms: The Swine King has a reach of 30ft.
Wild Swing: The Swine Prince can swing his Greatsword within his reach (see Long Arms) around him rolling an attack roll for every enemy in the radius. He can only do this while in barbaric rage.
I see you: When Wilbur marks an opponent The Swine prince can attack that enemy with no penalty for being blind. If multiple enemies are marked the swine prince can make an attack on at most 2 of them. Upon attacking an enemy the mark is cleared.
Psych Up: Enters barbaric rage until the end of his next turn. This takes a full round action.
Crown of Dimensional Door: The Swine Kings crown can cast Dimensional Door at will. This crown is stuck to The Swine Kings head and cannot be removed.
Cursed Hand: The Swine King’s Greatsword can only be removed from his hand by a Limited Wish, Wish, or Miracle spell.
This small Pig-Man carries two flags and a foul smelling bag.
LE Tiny Aberration
Init +12; Sense darkvision 60ft; Perception +4
DEFENSE
AC:
HP: 32 (4d8+0)
Fort +1 Ref +9 Will +8
OFFENSE
Speed 60 ft
Melee Bite +11 (1d3-1)
STATISTICS
Str 8 Dex 27 Con 10 Int 15 Wis 19 Cha 10
BAB 3 CMB +9 CMD +18
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
SPECIAL ABILITIES
End this one: Wilbur relays the location of one adventurer to the Swine King, marking them. This takes 1 standard action.
End these two: Wilbur marks 2 adventurers, this is a full-round action
I will try not to poke at any typos too much, obviously you aren't submitting this for official review or RPG Superstar or anything. I will try and stick with stuff that helps (I'll try).
Swine King:
- Description- While not super important, since you know what it looks like, this would need work. Remove the description of the smaller pig (Wilbur). If he's there then he'll get mentioned as his own description (even if the two will probably always be together).
I still have a hard time picturing what the Swine King looks like, stance-wise. While the gut thing is very vivid and should stay, just imagine that you're a player that is meeting this thing and the DM reads that description. Is it a hog laying down on its belly and its guts are cut open like a taun-taun on the planet Hoth? Or is it a humanoid with pig-like features standing upright with a massive belly hanging to the floor? Or is it a legless torso of a humanoid/swine being?
I know from the stat block, that it has arms, and a huuuuuge reach, so while I assume it's upright, I don't know if it has legs at all from the description. Also, I see no mention of a crown or a greatsword. Normally those might just be tertiary thoughts or pieces of gear, but in the stat block, those are important, integral items and should be mentioned. At least so people realize this guy has massive, muscled, and extremely beefy arms.
- NE Huge Aberration- Nothing really wrong here, but I will point out that the Swine King is NE while Wilbur is LE. Why the difference? These two seem pretty linked-in with each other and such a difference is the norm. Not impossible certainly and there may be a really good reason... just pointing it out.
- Init -8- Just make Initiative -4 for the Dex penalty. This creature is naturally blind, I assume it has been for most of its existence and it otherwise has very keen senses. -4 penalty is plenty. Also, no one will object if you give him the Scent quality here. It will at least let him know when creatures are around (aside from hearing) and will let him at least pick their squares for attack if they get adjacent to him (still a blindness miss chance).
- Fort +10, Ref -6, Will +0- These saves are not correct. I mean, I know you might be thinking this guy is slow or stupid... but that's where the Dexterity and Wisdom penalties apply. As an aberration his good at 15 HD will be +9 and his bad saves will be +5. This means with his Con, Dex, and Wis modifier he should be Fort +10, Ref +1, Will +8. Now as an aberration, you can change this, you can make his Fort be his good save and Ref and Will be his bad saves that's up to you. Either way, his saves should be in the area here, definitely not Ref -6 and Will +0.
- DR10- By DR10 am going to obviously assume Damage Reduction of 10. This should be followed by a mitigator of some kind. Like 'DR 10/magic' if magic weapons can bypass it, or 'DR 10/-' if it subtracts 10 from every type of weapon attack. I have no problem with a creature like this being DR 10/-. That's tough enough to keep it from being arrow'd to death from range easily.
If you want to get creative you can try something different. Give it 2 Damage Reductions (they don't stack). Say DR 5/- and DR 15/bone. This means he'll ignore up to 15 damage from any non-bone weapon. Teeth or actual bone weapons, most claws aren't actually bone except maybe a skeleton's but it could depend the creature, just like not all teeth are bone (like a plant beasts). 15 is high, but bone is not hard to come by (even though the PCs may not know the vulnerability). As a pretty unique creature they probably shouldn't just be able to make a simple Knowledge roll because they see an Aberration unless they actually go and research the specific creature. The DR 5/- will still reduce damage from bone weapons by 5. Of course, if that's too complicated, just stick with a DR 10/-. No one will fault you, this Swine King/Wilbur thing is ambitious enough.
- Melee Gargantuan Greatsword +21/+16/+11/- This would actually be +19/+14/+9. There's an additional -2 penalty for being Huge size. I didn't mention that initially, so I don't blame you for not catching it. So it's BAB 11 + 12 (Str) - 2 (Huge) - 2 (Gargantuan weapon).
He really should have a natural attack unless you have a really good reason not to. Like a bite or a slam. Basically it's the same to-hit and Str damage bonus (Strength and a half), just need to look up bite or slam damage for a Huge creature.
- Enraged Destruction- This is suitable. It is equivalent to a 20th-level ability, but it is dependent on Wilbur being hurt (which does add strategy to a fight). Description should probably be 'enters a mighty barbaric rage (as a 20th-level barbarian)' or 'enters a mighty barbaric rage (+8 Str, +8 Con. -2 AC)'. Might want to mention whether the Swine King is subject to Fatigue when this wears off (-2 Str and Dex) for 2 rounds per 1 round spent in a rage.
- Long arms- I suppose this could be an Extraordinary ability. Normally reach would just go in the Space/Reach section, but I guess 30-foot reach is unusual enough that this is okay here.
- Psyche Up- Nothing wrong, but OCD demands I suggest it be written as 'As a full-round action, the Swine King can enter a barbaric rage (as a barbarian) until the end of his next turn.' or you can note that it's a +4 to Str, +4 to Con, and -2 to AC. You should also mention if he's fatigued for 2 rounds after this. (Typically can't enter a new rage while fatigued, which could be a loophole to hurt of kill Wilbur and prevent SK from flying into a mighty barbaric rage).
OCD also demands you stop interchanging 'Swine King' and 'Swine Prince' in your monster description. And also to always spell 'Wilbur' with a 'u' everytime.
- Cursed Hand- I just don't feel it. I don't feel a mystical connection of that kind of power between the Swine King and his ordinary though immense greatsword. Anyone with the power to remove it from his hand would wipe the floor with him.
Additionally it doesn't really help adjudicate Sundering or attempted destruction (though the greatsword would have immense hit points.)
For palatability, I would suggest 'Weapon Bond (Su): If he desires, the Swine King's greatsword reappears in his hand at the start of his turn regardless of how it left or its condition. It always appears fully repaired though any enchantments or spells may still be in effect for their duration (heat metal or magic weapon for instance)' If you want a trophy to be available, then you can add that it can only be removed or claimed if the Swine King is dead, maybe adding that if the Swine King is ever returned to life it bonds an entirely new greatsword.
- Crown of Dimension Door- Okay, there's nothing wrong with this technically. But I assure you that players will try everything they can to get this crown (even if it wasn't magical) and without a really good reason it's probably better to just avoid that situation entirely.
I just recommend a good old 'Dimension Door (Sp): At Will, (CL7 or anything really up to 15)' Yes, there are differences in how the two things work. The Spell-like ability will provoke an Attack of Opportunity unless the Swine King does it defensively. The crown however, will need to be described, given a CL at the very least (just because the PC's might try to dispel it.) CL also determines additional creatures that can be brought along. Although you could just state this ability is 'self only' or 'additional Wilbur only' etc.
A crown is good, but maybe it should just be a crown. It can be gold or iron or meteoric garbage. If you keep the magical crown, then either make it clear that the PCs can't remove it (yes, just saying it can't be removed won't satisfy them) or allow some way (or say it can be removed on Swine King's death). I still say no though, that's a pretty potent item since this guy could technically be taken out by a bunch of acid splash cantrips from a distance if he doesn't dimension door away (might take a while). Just a suggestion though.
- I See You- Okay, this needs to be cleared up a little. I don't just mean whether it's (Ex) or (Su). The way it's written it could mean that when Wilbur marks a target, that target just lights up and the Swine King can then attack them (once) like any normal person. Or it could be read that as soon as Wilbur marks a target (or two), then the Swine King gets a free immediate swing at one (or both) of them, then they 'blink out' of his vision.
I would say... if you go with the second one that will really up the 'Wilbur factor' in a fight. Every round Wilbur marks one or two enemies and the Swine King gets a free attack on them. That's really scary and makes a player want to kill Wilbur real fast (but then risk mighty barbaric Swine King). I am almost tempted to say do this. Actually...do this.
'I See You (Su): As an immediate action if Wilbur marks a target (or multiple targets) with his End ability, the Swine King may use an immediate action to make an attack on one or both at his full BAB bonus with no penalties for being blind. Once the Swine King attacks a target, the mark on that enemy is removed. Enemies not immediately attacked remain marked and can be attacked later.'
Awesome Blow: We've talked about Awesome Blow. I didn't like it at first, but then I thought maybe it's good to have an attack you can really scare a PC with if they blunder into this guy and you don't want to Full Attack Power Attack squash them.
Dreadful Carnage: Okay, this I can see coming into play. As it requires BAB +11 the Swine King would have taken it for his 15th HD feat. However, one of its prerequisites is a feat called Furious Focus. Unlike Awesome Blow, where I feel you can fairly handwave away needing Improved Bullrush (since the Swine King can't move and is clearly a powerhouse) I think you're gonna need to remove a feat and take Furious Focus (plus it will help when power attacking.)
Cleave: Pointless and near worthless for this beast. First, you use a Standard action to make two attacks (granted at full BAB) against two opponents which must be standing next to each other and you only get second attack if you hit the first one. Being blind, you're going to already have a flat 50% chance of wasting your entire round of attacks. You also get a -2 penalty to AC doing it.
The Swine King gets 3 attacks a round normally, yes they go down by 5 points each, but still, they're plenty high enough to hit just about anyone. And if they aren't good enough, he gets a Wild Swing special ability that lets him get a chance to hit every enemy in reach already, so he doesn't need Cleave. Yes, he must be in a rage to use it, but that also ups his Strength and to-hit (I assume). Drop Cleave and take Furious Focus.
Hammer the Gap: I don't see the appeal of this feat. Assuming the Swine King hits someone with all three of his attacks, he'll do +1 damage on the second hit and +2 on the third. That's +3 damage for the round. He hits for +18 when not Power Attacking... every hit. Squeaking out an extra 3 is not a good use of a feat. Drop this and give the Swine King Blind-Fighting for the love of pizza. Yes, that's more dice rolling, but it's also a realistically believable feat for the Swine King to have and the probability of a flat out miss in combat every single time (other than a Mark from Wilbur) even with Blind-Fighting is still very generous to any opponent of any level (PC or otherwise).[/list]
Post is already getting a little long. I'll go into Wilbur later.
I would guess that right now, Swine King is about a CR 6-8. That means a 6th level party might expend 1/4th their resources/hit points/spells encountering him. Obviously he'll wreak more havoc against melee types, but being blind gives them a fair chance and he basically doesn't get an Attack of Opportunity despite his immense reach (unless they're marked and then only once). But it's all up in the air, a 4rd to 4th party with some intelligence and good spells could annihilate him (barring him avoiding them with dimension door)