DR and / or semantics


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Is it really as easy as it sounds or perhaps I'm missing something.

refer to the following:
D20PFSRD

DR/bludgeoning and good

Is it as easy as it sounds in that it requires both qualities, or is it that both bludgeoning and good can pierce this DR?

Grand Lodge

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Black Skeleton

DR is fairly simple, if a bit arcane in writing.

DR 10/bludgeoning or good means that either a bludgeoning weapon or a good aligned weapon will ignore that DR.

DR 10/bludgeoning and good means that you have to have a bludgeoning weapon that is ALSO good aligned in order to ignore the DR.

Other creatures have similar types of DR options. Demons and Devils are the poster children for this type of thing.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

No, it takes both properties to overcome the DR -- or, alternatively, any +5 weapon can do this, since a +3 or better weapon qualifies as bludgeoning and a +5 or better weapon qualifies as good for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

If one or the other were sufficient to overcome damage reduction, it would be listed as DR/bludgeoning or good.


Wait, where does it say +3 qualifies as bludgeoning?


_Ozy_ wrote:
Wait, where does it say +3 qualifies as bludgeoning?

Nowhere.

Grand Lodge

Although a +5 weapon, with a wielder with the "right" feat, Weapon Versatility, could do it.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
_Ozy_ wrote:
Wait, where does it say +3 qualifies as bludgeoning?

Oops -- +3 is cold iron/silver, not bludgeoning/piercing/slashing.

So a +5 bludgeoning weapon would work -- or just doing so much damage that the monster dies despite the damage reduction.

Grand Lodge

David knott 242 wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Wait, where does it say +3 qualifies as bludgeoning?

Oops -- +3 is cold iron/silver, not bludgeoning/piercing/slashing.

So a +5 bludgeoning weapon would work -- or just doing so much damage that the monster dies despite the damage reduction.

A bit harder to do, when a CR 5 creature has DR 10/bludgeoning and good, a bit higher than normal in difficulty for that APL.

Paladins, of course, for the win. "Smite that Black Skeleton! DR need not apply!"


kinevon wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Wait, where does it say +3 qualifies as bludgeoning?

Oops -- +3 is cold iron/silver, not bludgeoning/piercing/slashing.

So a +5 bludgeoning weapon would work -- or just doing so much damage that the monster dies despite the damage reduction.

A bit harder to do, when a CR 5 creature has DR 10/bludgeoning and good, a bit higher than normal in difficulty for that APL.

Paladins, of course, for the win. "Smite that Black Skeleton! DR need not apply!"

Oil of Bless Weapon (50 gp) and carrying a non-magical backup mace (or blunted arrows) will do for pretty much any class. For an unprepared party with non-aligned 1H and ranged weapons, however, I agree it can be pretty nasty.

Grand Lodge

Cheburn wrote:
kinevon wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Wait, where does it say +3 qualifies as bludgeoning?

Oops -- +3 is cold iron/silver, not bludgeoning/piercing/slashing.

So a +5 bludgeoning weapon would work -- or just doing so much damage that the monster dies despite the damage reduction.

A bit harder to do, when a CR 5 creature has DR 10/bludgeoning and good, a bit higher than normal in difficulty for that APL.

Paladins, of course, for the win. "Smite that Black Skeleton! DR need not apply!"

Oil of Bless Weapon (50 gp) and carrying a non-magical backup mace (or blunted arrows) will do for pretty much any class. For an unprepared party with non-aligned 1H and ranged weapons, however, I agree it can be pretty nasty.

I think this particular monster may be broken at the CR given. Bless Weapon is great, but it gives no bonus to hit. Backup blunt weapon may not be masterwork.

Str 18 for +4, +5 BAB, means less than 50% hit chance on this particular creature, and it has enough hit points to ignore that 1d8+6 damage (or less) for several attacks.

At least it isn't incorporeal and with some sort of draining touch attack that creates spawn...


kinevon wrote:

I think this particular monster may be broken at the CR given. Bless Weapon is great, but it gives no bonus to hit. Backup blunt weapon may not be masterwork.

Str 18 for +4, +5 BAB, means less than 50% hit chance on this particular creature, and it has enough hit points to ignore that 1d8+6 damage (or less) for several attacks.

It's not too bad. It doesn't do much damage. Unlike, say, a Cyclops, it's unlikely to actually kill a party member - it can only wear you down slowly, unless you put a strength-dumping character on the front line. And the average level 5 party probably has members who can handle it - a paladin, a big strong barbarian who can overpower its DR, a bard who can help you overcome the high AC with buffs, a cleric who can hit it with positive energy, a wizard who can blind it or wear it down with magic missile spells, someone who can trip it...


Matthew Downie wrote:
kinevon wrote:

I think this particular monster may be broken at the CR given. Bless Weapon is great, but it gives no bonus to hit. Backup blunt weapon may not be masterwork.

Str 18 for +4, +5 BAB, means less than 50% hit chance on this particular creature, and it has enough hit points to ignore that 1d8+6 damage (or less) for several attacks.
It's not too bad. It doesn't do much damage. Unlike, say, a Cyclops, it's unlikely to actually kill a party member - it can only wear you down slowly, unless you put a strength-dumping character on the front line. And the average level 5 party probably has members who can handle it - a paladin, a big strong barbarian who can overpower its DR, a bard who can help you overcome the high AC with buffs, a cleric who can hit it with positive energy, a wizard who can blind it or wear it down with magic missile spells, someone who can trip it...

Party members who remembered to buy alchemist fire/acid.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well, it is a 3rd party monster that we are talking about here. Given the source, I think the authors favored an accurate conversion of a pre-D&D 3e monster over something balanced for CR 5.


I want to plug Automatic Bonus Progression here, because it would allow you to swap in your bludgeoning weapon and the enhancement bonus (you can attune the new weapon as a standard action granting it the enhancement bonuses and removing it from your previous weapon, but can only change once per day).

It's really great for this sort of thing. It might not be optimal because you might not have weapon focus with that weapon or whatever, but it keeps your power level up there comparatively.

Silver Crusade

Alright, thanks for the DR clarification.

If it helps clarify, this monster comes from Rappan Athuk and is encountered at 1st-3rd level.

Rappan was never built to be fair ;)

Not all encounters are won by combat alone.

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