A list of things that Ultimate Intrigue clarified for me in the first 10 minutes of reading


Product Discussion

1 to 50 of 137 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

34 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber


  • How to adjudicate charm person.
  • How to adjudicate interacting with illusions.
  • How to adjudicate certain aspects of simulacrum.
  • How to handle divinations at low to high levels.
  • How to handle numerous other "game-breaking" spells at low to high levels.
  • What the Bluff skill can and cannot get a target to do.
  • What happens when someone tells an implausible truth.
  • How to handle the Bluff skill in a group setting (such as when the rest of the party is present, but aren't themselves good liars).
  • How to handle lies that are actually true.
  • Determining surprise rounds when combat breaks out during social interaction.
  • Diplomacy is not mind control.
  • How to adjudicate a call for a cease fire in the midst of combat.
  • How frequently to oppose Disguise checks with Sense Motive checks.
  • What happens when someone sees through your illusion/transmutation, but not your Disguise check result.
  • How to explain negative consequences with logic, using Intimidate without relying on inducing fear.
  • How to better adjudicate Perception/Stealth skill interactions.
  • The differences between "unaware", "aware of presence", "aware of location", and "observing."
  • How to properly get a "hunch" using the Sense Motive skill.
  • Sense Motive is not mind reading.

What did you learn from this wonderful, wonderful book?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh my, sounds useful.

how long 'til the hardcopy is out again? :(


It already is. It's the PDF we have to wait for.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

No, street date for both hard copy and PDF is March 30th. Some subscribers have already received their PDF. Some of us are still waiting for our package to ship. :P

Silver Crusade

17 people marked this as a favorite.

This has done more to sell me on Ultimate Intrigue than anything Paizo has put out about it.


Since the pdf isn't available for another 2 weeks...absolutely nothing.


April 14 according to Amazon UK, guess it takes time to get across the Atlantic.
Even more sad face :(
I will answer RDs question next month and stop derailing the thread now!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It sounds like this book handles a lot of questions we've had for a long time now.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dotting in case more things that are interesting are said...

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Any chance for clarication on Charm Person adjudication, RD?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sammy T wrote:
Any chance for clarication on Charm Person adjudication, RD?

Didn't I say that? If you're looking for specifics, please ask a specific question.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

This book has several mentions of Charm Person, including a two useful and detailed paragraphs on page 157.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

D-... dang it. And I thought I wanted it before...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:

  • Diplomacy is not mind control.

But... but how else is my 32 CHA diplomancer bard supposed to render the rest of the party irrelevant?!


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

  • How to adjudicate charm person.
  • How to adjudicate interacting with illusions.
  • How to adjudicate certain aspects of simulacrum.
  • How to handle divinations at low to high levels.
  • How to handle numerous other "game-breaking" spells at low to high levels.
  • What the Bluff skill can and cannot get a target to do.
  • What happens when someone tells an implausible truth.
  • How to handle the Bluff skill in a group setting (such as when the rest of the party is present, but aren't themselves good liars).
  • How to handle lies that are actually true.
  • Determining surprise rounds when combat breaks out during social interaction.
  • Diplomacy is not mind control.
  • How to adjudicate a call for a cease fire in the midst of combat.
  • How frequently to oppose Disguise checks with Sense Motive checks.
  • What happens when someone sees through your illusion/transmutation, but not your Disguise check result.
  • How to explain negative consequences with logic, using Intimidate without relying on inducing fear.
  • How to better adjudicate Perception/Stealth skill interactions.
  • The differences between "unaware", "aware of presence", "aware of location", and "observing."
  • How to properly get a "hunch" using the Sense Motive skill.
  • Sense Motive is not mind reading.

What did you learn from this wonderful, wonderful book?

Every single one of these things has been needed for years. I really need to get ahold of this book.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok, now I REALLY want to take a look at this book. I was excited about archetypes, but this is definitely some useful information for me to have with my next AP coming up


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
This has done more to sell me on Ultimate Intrigue than anything Paizo has put out about it.

Agreed, I had pretty much zero interest in this book until I stumbled onto this thread.

Paizo Employee Designer

19 people marked this as a favorite.
Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
This has done more to sell me on Ultimate Intrigue than anything Paizo has put out about it.

We have mention of these two sections scheduled for two blogs from now (not tomorrow's but the one the week after). It's with the other subsystems, but if you guys on this thread think that spending more detail on these two sections is a really strong point of excitement, that tells me I should adjust that blog to give some more info on them.

Thanks Eliandra, RD, p-sto, Brew Bird, and others here; if you see more about this in that blog, you'll know it was thanks to you!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am buying just for these clarifications. Everything else is gravy.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I was planning on skipping this book as a hard cover. Now I'll get it when it hits the shop, thanks RD.

Paizo Employee Designer

15 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm really glad people like these sections! I felt they were a bit of a risk (especially since I asked for the spells of intrigue section to get 50% more pages than it initially was allotted, so we could answer all the questions I had about spells and intrigue) because while I personally thought they were awesome and super-important, I wasn't sure how many people would share my enthusiasm vis-a-vis enthusiasm over classes, archetypes, and the like.

While the blogs so far (including tomorrow's) focus on some of the fun character-building options in here, I feel that the "true power" of this book is in the fact that it makes it so that the game is working with you (you being both players and GM) to play an awesome political/social/thievery/intrigue game with plenty of challenges other than combat. The lynchpins of that part of the book are the sections RD is highlighting as well as probably the social conflict section, with its advice on building these style of campaigns.

Please tell me what you think about those kinds of topics, including those of you who don't have the book yet, so I can factor it into future conversations we have about outlines and pagecounts!

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

This wait has become physically painful. I'm going to go ice off now.


YUS.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Until I read RD's list, I was on the fence about getting it. Now I am definitely getting the PDF as soon as it is available.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:

I'm really glad people like these sections! I felt they were a bit of a risk (especially since I asked for the spells of intrigue section to get 50% more pages than it initially was allotted, so we could answer all the questions I had about spells and intrigue) because while I personally thought they were awesome and super-important, I wasn't sure how many people would share my enthusiasm vis-a-vis enthusiasm over classes, archetypes, and the like.

While the blogs so far (including tomorrow's) focus on some of the fun character-building options in here, I feel that the "true power" of this book is in the fact that it makes it so that the game is working with you (you being both players and GM) to play an awesome political/social/thievery/intrigue game with plenty of challenges other than combat. The lynchpins are the sections RD is highlighting as well as probably the social conflict section, with its advice on building these style of campaigns.

Please tell me what you think about those kinds of topics, including those of you who don't have the book yet, so I can factor it into future conversations we have about outlines and pagecounts!

I know I am more of a rules enthusiast than most. But many of these questions are questions I have been wondering/asking/arguing about for years. Simulacrum and charm person spells especially. A blog post would have been fine and could have saved some space in the book but I understand the monetary concerns involved and the difficulty in dedicating time to projects that will not earn money. In the end I am satisfied to finally have these questions answered.

Paizo Employee Designer

5 people marked this as a favorite.
MichaelCullen wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:

I'm really glad people like these sections! I felt they were a bit of a risk (especially since I asked for the spells of intrigue section to get 50% more pages than it initially was allotted, so we could answer all the questions I had about spells and intrigue) because while I personally thought they were awesome and super-important, I wasn't sure how many people would share my enthusiasm vis-a-vis enthusiasm over classes, archetypes, and the like.

While the blogs so far (including tomorrow's) focus on some of the fun character-building options in here, I feel that the "true power" of this book is in the fact that it makes it so that the game is working with you (you being both players and GM) to play an awesome political/social/thievery/intrigue game with plenty of challenges other than combat. The lynchpins are the sections RD is highlighting as well as probably the social conflict section, with its advice on building these style of campaigns.

Please tell me what you think about those kinds of topics, including those of you who don't have the book yet, so I can factor it into future conversations we have about outlines and pagecounts!

I know I am more of a rules enthusiast than most. But many of these questions are questions I have been wondering/asking/arguing about for years. Simulacrum and charm person spells especially. A blog post would have been fine and could have saved some space in the book but I understand the monetary concerns involved and the difficulty in dedicated time to projects that will not earn money. In the end I am satisfied to finally have these questions answered.

I would say simulacrum still needs its blog FAQ to satisfy me that we've covered it all the way; that one spell would take 2-4 pages to explain fully (it's one reason RD rightly said "certain aspects of" simulacrum). Charm person I think we solidly have you covered though! One thing that makes this section a lot more than an FAQ, though, is that it's also full of advice for using the spells in a way that enhances your intrigue game and adds to the intrigue, rather than breaking it (plus an example of some of the toughest divinations).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm definitely way more interested after reading RD's post - I think the lynchpin of this book would be one of clarification - basically that many areas of the game that seemed not really explained very well, or too much of a grey area are now...not. It's like a bunch of FAQs that have been bugging folks/giving people trouble got answered.

At least that is how it seems, not having a copy of the book in question.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
MichaelCullen wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:

I'm really glad people like these sections! I felt they were a bit of a risk (especially since I asked for the spells of intrigue section to get 50% more pages than it initially was allotted, so we could answer all the questions I had about spells and intrigue) because while I personally thought they were awesome and super-important, I wasn't sure how many people would share my enthusiasm vis-a-vis enthusiasm over classes, archetypes, and the like.

While the blogs so far (including tomorrow's) focus on some of the fun character-building options in here, I feel that the "true power" of this book is in the fact that it makes it so that the game is working with you (you being both players and GM) to play an awesome political/social/thievery/intrigue game with plenty of challenges other than combat. The lynchpins are the sections RD is highlighting as well as probably the social conflict section, with its advice on building these style of campaigns.

Please tell me what you think about those kinds of topics, including those of you who don't have the book yet, so I can factor it into future conversations we have about outlines and pagecounts!

I know I am more of a rules enthusiast than most. But many of these questions are questions I have been wondering/asking/arguing about for years. Simulacrum and charm person spells especially. A blog post would have been fine and could have saved some space in the book but I understand the monetary concerns involved and the difficulty in dedicated time to projects that will not earn money. In the end I am satisfied to finally have these questions answered.
I would say simulacrum still needs its blog FAQ to satisfy me that we've covered it all the way; that one spell would take 2-4 pages to explain fully (it's one reason RD rightly said "certain aspects of" simulacrum). Charm person I think we solidly have you covered though! One thing that makes this section a lot more...

Well then I look forward to the book and the blog!

Still holding out hope for that UMD blog at some point.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The things discussed in this thread are going to hurt my wallet, as now I will have to buy a copy for my GM. The Vigilante, the archetypes, the feats, and the new spells were things he could do without -- but I think he will very much want the spell and skill clarifications.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd love to see more details on UI's take on diplomacy. Very few things sour a PFS table for me more than the guy that wants to talk down every encounter in a dungeon crawl module and gets upset when his high roll doesn't make the cannibalistic goblins any less cannibalistic.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think this kind of thing appeals to a different kind of buyer than the classes and feats and archetypes. This appeals to GMs who groan at seeing yet another set of rules their players are going to beg them to learn. But now Intrigue has something for them, too---better explanations of things they're already using, things they've all struggled with.

I don't really have a problem with more character options (though I confess I'm a huge not-fan of the vigilante), but at this point I GM pre-written stuff much more than I play, so I'm not going to pick up a book for more archetypes. But I've liked adding new Unchained subsystems to my games, so I was thinking about picking up Intrigue for the subsystems. But now I want it for some advice on how to deal with an aced diplomacy check that is poised to ruin the whole story!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ravingdork's post turned me from disinterested to very interested in the book. As others have said, it covers a lot of areas that have been a problem.

The bluff and illusion sections interest me both as a player and a GM.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
because while I personally thought they were awesome and super-important, I wasn't sure how many people would share my enthusiasm vis-a-vis enthusiasm over classes, archetypes, and the like.

I had sort of the opposite thought personally. When the book was first announced I was really intrigued by the, uh.. intrigue. The idea behind it sounded really fun and as someone who's in the process of building a campaign around a single city it really appealed to me.

But the closer we got to release the more and more I heard about nothing other than the Vigilante and archetypes. So many archetypes. So many class variations and spells and feats and while as a player I love those, I started to get kind of worried that this would be just a themed class book and not actually have a lot of GM friendly material in it and I wasn't sure if I'd buy it or just wait for the class crunch to show up online.

So what Ravingdork's talking about has pushed me the other way too into wanting to buy it again.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I had canceled my subscription just before this publication. I had planned on getting it all along - just as a PDF to save some cost. But now, curses, I must wait to get it compared to when I too had been a subscriber!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:

I'm really glad people like these sections! I felt they were a bit of a risk (especially since I asked for the spells of intrigue section to get 50% more pages than it initially was allotted, so we could answer all the questions I had about spells and intrigue) because while I personally thought they were awesome and super-important, I wasn't sure how many people would share my enthusiasm vis-a-vis enthusiasm over classes, archetypes, and the like.

While the blogs so far (including tomorrow's) focus on some of the fun character-building options in here, I feel that the "true power" of this book is in the fact that it makes it so that the game is working with you (you being both players and GM) to play an awesome political/social/thievery/intrigue game with plenty of challenges other than combat. The lynchpins of that part of the book are the sections RD is highlighting as well as probably the social conflict section, with its advice on building these style of campaigns.

Please tell me what you think about those kinds of topics, including those of you who don't have the book yet, so I can factor it into future conversations we have about outlines and pagecounts!

I've avoided using a lot of the elements RD mentioned (or just used them lightly) because I have felt that I didn't have a good understanding of them. If this book really helps clarify the rules, then I have a whole new area of the game to explore. That makes me much more excited about this book. (Although I was already planning on getting it for other parts).

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, I was probably going to get this for the crunch, but now I'm definitely getting it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank goodness...

Shadow Lodge

So... are these FAQs? FAQs that only apply if you own the book? 90% core rulebook FAQs?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As a subscriber who has read this section of the book, I was so pleasantly surprised by its thorough explanation of the spells and skills, and I would have bought the book for these alone.

It also taught me I've been giving far too much information away as a GM when my players wield Divination against me.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Nezzmith wrote:

As a subscriber who has read this section of the book, I was so pleasantly surprised by its thorough explanation of the spells and skills, and I would have bought the book for these alone.

It also taught me I've been giving far too much information away as a GM when my players wield Divination against me.

Was it just me or was the example given for divination and vision just a beautiful work of art?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Avatar-1 wrote:
So... are these FAQs? FAQs that only apply if you own the book? 90% core rulebook FAQs?

Well it's a hardcover RPG line book so it will eventually be available on the PRD and thus accessible to all.

Silver Crusade

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

But does this book tell me how to convince my boss to give me a raise?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
This has done more to sell me on Ultimate Intrigue than anything Paizo has put out about it.

We have mention of these two sections scheduled for two blogs from now (not tomorrow's but the one the week after). It's with the other subsystems, but if you guys on this thread think that spending more detail on these two sections is a really strong point of excitement, that tells me I should adjust that blog to give some more info on them.

Thanks Eliandra, RD, p-sto, Brew Bird, and others here; if you see more about this in that blog, you'll know it was thanks to you!

Personally I don't read the blog. I only come here for the messageboards and digital downloads.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I was not originally planning on buying this book, but may very well do so just for the skill and spell clarifications.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Dear Pathfinder Devs:

Please do a google search for "Pathfinder poison use blog" and read your own blog post on the subject.

Now look at the rules questions forum.

Now please look again at your poison blog post - then darkness - and then the recent 'levels of light' illustration you published in blood of shadows.

OK - now see response to this section you *JUST* published. Can we *PLEASE* get a GM guide v2 that goes into detail how to run all these complicated systems/subsystems combat situations that are just frustrating to adjudicate? Please? You could make it like the player focused strategy guide and just present it as 'how we'd do it' and I'd still go GAGA over it.

Please? Include some stuff on traps, how to deal with trapfinding, how to deal with flying and mounted combat....

:)


This is actually interesting. I just kind of glossed over it with "There some further clarification on how certain social skills work and some rules about getting rid of opposed rolls" but this is actually kind of a big deal. I was just like, 'oh that's kinda nice I guess.' because we got something similar with Ultimate Campaign and how to deal with pets and cohorts or the clarifications on alignments in the 'Champions of' Player Companions. Like this was information we all knew and we're just going over it again for the sake of the uninitated.


Yah, I'm going to get this book now. I don't like a lot of the splat books because they tend to just add more powerful options and glut. But rules clarification is something I wholeheartedly support.

I would kill for a pathfinder Rules compendium with a clarification of as many rules as possible in one area.


Weirdo wrote:
Yeah, I was probably going to get this for the crunch, but now I'm definitely getting it.

Well, most of this is crunch; it's replacing rules or adding new ones, like with simulacrum.


Something I did not want clarified: Failing a Will Save and being forced to perform an action that breaks your code/goes against your deities' wishes does in fact make you lose your powers.

I dont believe the Absolution spell should have been printed. Even further it has limited usefulness in combat(It also breaks enchantments) because of the casting time of a round.


Scavion wrote:

Something I did not want clarified: Failing a Will Save and being forced to perform an action that breaks your code/goes against your deities' wishes does in fact make you lose your powers.

I dont believe the Absolution spell should have been printed. Even further it has limited usefulness in combat(It also breaks enchantments) because of the casting time of a round.

How does that first bit make any sense?

1 to 50 of 137 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Paizo Products / Product Discussion / A list of things that Ultimate Intrigue clarified for me in the first 10 minutes of reading All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.