resurrection is the spell that requires a diamond worth 5000 gp as a material cost. i always though it meant 5000gp worth of diamonds. so is it one diamond or many diamonds worth 5000 gp?
It says diamond (singular), not diamonds (plural). It is a single 5000gp diamond. In 3.5 D&D, you could use multiple diamonds.
Also, raise dead is the spell with the 5000gp diamond. Resurrection requires a 10000gp diamond.
well good luck ever finding one of that size
Size isn't an issue. A finely cut smaller diamond may be worth more than a rough cut (or raw) larger diamond.
As has been explained to me, its not just size but cut, clarity, and karat. Go to a jewelry store and ask for a range of diamond prices and you'll get some pretty large variations based on those three things.
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Just get someone to sell you a crappy diamond for a high price, problem solved.
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Apprentice: "Master I got that diamond you wanted and I managed to get you a 20% discount, it only cost 20,000gp"
MasterMage:"..."
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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If you think deBeers ads for engagement rings drove up diamond prices, think about how they'd rise if they could actually bring the dead back to life.
10k gp diamond in that market is probably tiny, brown, and murky.
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Or 'diamond' could be referring to the mineral diamond as opposed to a singular diamond.
Imagine if the cost of a spell was "Copper worth 5000gp".
Isn't English fun?
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Or 'diamond' could be referring to the mineral diamond as opposed to a singular diamond.
Imagine if the cost of a spell was "Copper worth 5000gp".
Isn't English fun?
This is always how I'd interpreted it. (Yes, English is!)
A diamond worth 25k that is sold to you for 20k is still a diamond worth 25k.
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One weird feature of Pathfinder and D&D 3.5 is the idea that items have intrinsic prices. Would a 5000 GP diamond lose all of its value if you stole it (and thus obtained it for a price of 0 GP)?
Eh, the fact that some material components are specified as 'diamond dust' worth XXXXgp kind of indicates that when they say diamond, they mean 'a' diamond. Otherwise there really is no practical difference between 'diamond' and 'diamond dust'.This is always how I'd interpreted it. (Yes, English is!)Or 'diamond' could be referring to the mineral diamond as opposed to a singular diamond.
Imagine if the cost of a spell was "Copper worth 5000gp".
Isn't English fun?
I can see that. I still followed the other interpretation, always presuming that diamond dust needed to be in a specific form of dust.
That is, in fact, a practical difference - one specifically needs to be dust, the other does not.
The 'a' could have been excised for space reasons, and I can easily see that way of reading it. I don't begrudge anyone or even think they're (necessarily) wrong. My comment was explicitly about how I'd always interpreted it; I do think that there are enough variables, and English is flexible enough, that a GM could interpret it either way without dipping into "House Rules" territory. I wouldn't really mind, either way.
But it's much shorter to say,
This is always how I'd interpreted it. (Yes, English is!)
... so I did. :)
EDIT: KNOTT, you, you NINJA! (Well played, sir...)
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The fabricate spell can be used to combine multiple smaller diamonds into one larger one with the same overall value. Or turn a costly one into a bunch of dust.
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As long as you have someone who can cast fabricate.
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I feel like the real question is: who cares? What GM would possibly go "Oh yes there is hundreds of thousands of gold worth of diamonds available to purchase in the city, but none of them are singularly big enough for the spell".
If they're in a civilization with a large enough economy to buy that much diamond, just have them spend the money and give them the damn diamond.
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Can you find those resources in a village? Extremely doubtful.
Can you find those resources in a metropolis? Yes.
Just decide what levels of civilization and associated economy are required for what levels of diamond, and don't worry about the tiny details. In the vast majority of situations if the PCs are looking for diamonds to cast a spell, if you say they can't find it in one location they're just going to look in a bigger location.
It just seems like a big waste of time to me. Paying the massive cost is price enough.
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I think it's absolutely necessary to take context into account when making rule decisions. I like to make my decisions not in a vacuum. After all, all information is only useful in the context of humanity.
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The only time I have had to use that trick is when I was playing a certain module that takes place on the moon and we could not simply teleport to the nearest city and pick up some diamond dust. I had some smaller diamonds for limited wish and was able to fabricate one into dust for a party member's restoration.
In 9/10 cases you might as well teleport and grab what you need, but sometimes you just can't.
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Dude, I'm right there with you, traveling around to find a spell component does not typically make a good adventure. I'm just pointing out what I believe the rules are saying.
Traveling around to find a spell component for something that is common doesn't make a good adventure.
On the other hand if there is a unique spell/ritual that isn't something you can even put in your spellbook - well then you can make an entire campaign about finding the stuff for it and have it work.
Spells from the core rulebook at the very least shouldn't be more difficult to cast than they already are (IMO) and if you are going to be a pain about it just ban the spell to begin with. Saying you don't have the diamond on you in the middle of the dungeon (because you didn't buy one) is different than not being able to find one at all, which just sucks if you have the spell and money to use it.
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Traveling around to find a spell component for something that is common doesn't make a good adventure.
On the other hand if there is a unique spell/ritual that isn't something you can even put in your spellbook - well then you can make an entire campaign about finding the stuff for it and have it work.
Spells from the core rulebook at the very least shouldn't be more difficult to cast than they already are (IMO) and if you are going to be a pain about it just ban the spell to begin with. Saying you don't have the diamond on you in the middle of the dungeon (because you didn't buy one) is different than not being able to find one at all, which just sucks if you have the spell and money to use it.
In high fantasy, finding spell components is a waste of time. Just get some sort of enlarged spell component pouch and be done with it.
In a low fantasy setting, an entire story arc could be focused around finding a certain component in time to cast a certain spell. GM would probably ban spell component pouches, making feats like eschew materials much more powerful.
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Going to toss my two coppers in on this. The reason some spells have those hugely ridiculous components is so that those spells are not going to be cast every adventure or every time the characters mess up. Limited wish or wish should not be available to cast every adventure no matter how powerful the wizard is. This breaks the feel of the game. Having to go on a quest to get x component or to set up a supply of them is part of the game.
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I actually made a character backstory based on the cost of a spell.
Khale Darin was a rogue. His best friend/partner/love of his life, was a fighter Mara. The pair went into a low end dungeon seeking a bit of coin and experience. In that dungeon she was killed and Khale had to escape with only her sword, a bastard sword, and some of her hair. His reason for adventuring was to get the money together to have her resurrected.
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The fabricate spell can be used to combine multiple smaller diamonds into one larger one with the same overall value. Or turn a costly one into a bunch of dust.
Can't. A larger diamond isn't something that you can produce.
That spell don't glue together random item, it make a product. What is the craft skill used to produce a larger diamond? What is the DC?The only time I have had to use that trick is when I was playing a certain module that takes place on the moon and we could not simply teleport to the nearest city and pick up some diamond dust. I had some smaller diamonds for limited wish and was able to fabricate one into dust for a party member's restoration.
In 9/10 cases you might as well teleport and grab what you need, but sometimes you just can't.
Making diamond dust from a diamond with fabricate? No problem, that is a product.
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You don't need fabricate for diamond dust when you can just use a hammer.
Hammer's really aren't very good for diamond dust, unless you just want bits of diamonds flying in every direction and dents in your hammer/anvil.
For diamond dust, you are probably using the byproduct of the gem-crafting process for cutting the diamonds. It's unlikely that entire diamonds are being ground into dust, as the hardness of diamonds makes grinding them an expensive prospect (destroys tools quickly, in real life).
Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds. The act of melting them down ruins any polishing or cuts, but you can create bigger diamonds from smaller diamonds (in real life, without magic). With magic like Fabricate, you could transform several cut gems directly into larger cut gems.
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You don't need fabricate for diamond dust when you can just use a hammer.Hammer's really aren't very good for diamond dust, unless you just want bits of diamonds flying in every direction and dents in your hammer/anvil.
For diamond dust, you are probably using the byproduct of the gem-crafting process for cutting the diamonds. It's unlikely that entire diamonds are being ground into dust, as the hardness of diamonds makes grinding them an expensive prospect (destroys tools quickly, in real life).
Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds. The act of melting them down ruins any polishing or cuts, but you can create bigger diamonds from smaller diamonds (in real life, without magic). With magic like Fabricate, you could transform several cut gems directly into larger cut gems.
Which would make it a Craft (Gemcutting) skill check, I would think, then.
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Which would make it a Craft (Gemcutting) skill check, I would think, then.You don't need fabricate for diamond dust when you can just use a hammer.Hammer's really aren't very good for diamond dust, unless you just want bits of diamonds flying in every direction and dents in your hammer/anvil.
For diamond dust, you are probably using the byproduct of the gem-crafting process for cutting the diamonds. It's unlikely that entire diamonds are being ground into dust, as the hardness of diamonds makes grinding them an expensive prospect (destroys tools quickly, in real life).
Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds. The act of melting them down ruins any polishing or cuts, but you can create bigger diamonds from smaller diamonds (in real life, without magic). With magic like Fabricate, you could transform several cut gems directly into larger cut gems.
Craft (Gemcutting), or the broader Craft (Jewelry), would work fine.
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You don't need fabricate for diamond dust when you can just use a hammer.Hammer's really aren't very good for diamond dust, unless you just want bits of diamonds flying in every direction and dents in your hammer/anvil.
For diamond dust, you are probably using the byproduct of the gem-crafting process for cutting the diamonds. It's unlikely that entire diamonds are being ground into dust, as the hardness of diamonds makes grinding them an expensive prospect (destroys tools quickly, in real life).
Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds. The act of melting them down ruins any polishing or cuts, but you can create bigger diamonds from smaller diamonds (in real life, without magic). With magic like Fabricate, you could transform several cut gems directly into larger cut gems.
Mohs scale of mineral hardness is about what can scratch what. It is not about resisting blows.
Iron has a hardness of 4-5, quartz of 7 on that scale. Quartz can scratch iron, but if you hit a piece of quartz with a iron hammer it shatter."Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds." Source for that piece of information?
Diamonds can be made artificially, but you don't take existing diamond, melt them down and poor them in a mold. The process is way more complicated.
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"Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds." Source for that piece of information?
Diamonds can be made artificially, but you don't take existing diamond, melt them down and poor them in a mold. The process is way more complicated.
http://www.livescience.com/4303-scientists-melt-diamond.html
Wasn't talking about melting them with fire, if that's what you were thinking. It's an involved process. Linked article just melted diamonds into a puddle (which is an alternate shape), so a mold could work too.
Though with magic, would be much easier, since the spell ignores the technology needed.
resurrection is the spell that requires a diamond worth 5000 gp as a material cost. i always though it meant 5000gp worth of diamonds. so is it one diamond or many diamonds worth 5000 gp?
Yep... one 5,000 gp diamond. So if you buy one at a ten percent discount, your spell won't work.
Though melting diamonds into a bigger diamond is a classic Bond plot (Diamonds Are Forever (1971), I think).
I don't know I would call Diamonds are Forever classic Bond. That film makes me weep for shame.
Are we honestly saying that there is an alternative to ascribing a gp cost to diamond components. Do you want 5,000 gp diamond to be replaced with...
"one flawless, excellently cut, 2 carat marquise diamond"?
Or perhaps "diamonds, however many your DM thinks appropirate"?
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Going to toss my two coppers in on this. The reason some spells have those hugely ridiculous components is so that those spells are not going to be cast every adventure or every time the characters mess up. Limited wish or wish should not be available to cast every adventure no matter how powerful the wizard is. This breaks the feel of the game. Having to go on a quest to get x component or to set up a supply of them is part of the game.
That's a house rule and certainly a valid flavor. The cost from a design standpoint is more to make the player think before using the spell and thus have a hard choice to make. The costs go up in an even factor with the wealth by level chart.
You'll find the cost to raise dead someone about as rough on a party's bank when the spell is 'generally available' as Wish is when they get access - the difference is by the time they get Wish - raise dead is no longer such a drain.
Given the WBL charts neither spell should be a make or break moment for a party when they are the correct level to actually cast the spell themselves (and the GM's guide suggests that if the players spend money on consumables of any kind - including spells - that they get the money back in other ways) - both of these things in the *rules* show the design intent wasn't to make them *hard* to cast - but rather to add something akin to 'speedbumps' on a road, they slow you down, make you think, but don't stop you.
Again - that doesn't make your style of play wrong either - it's just having the spells generally available is really fine as well.
Are we honestly saying that there is an alternative to ascribing a gp cost to diamond components. Do you want 5,000 gp diamond to be replaced with...
"one flawless, excellently cut, 2 carat marquise diamond"?
Or perhaps "diamonds, however many your DM thinks appropirate"?
No, we are not, and, if you read the earlier posts again, you might come away with a more reasonable impression.
If intended, perhaps, "a diamond worth 5,000 gp" instead.
That's simple (add the word 'a') and instantly clears up any confusion.
Of course, as I noted, adding that word does add to the character count against page space (specifically the letter 'a' itself, and the space between that and the word 'diamond') which might be a totally legitimate reason for cutting it.
But, given English as a language, as this is currently printed, the English can be read in either direction.
The fabricate spell can be used to combine multiple smaller diamonds into one larger one with the same overall value. Or turn a costly one into a bunch of dust.Can't. A larger diamond isn't something that you can produce.
That spell don't glue together random item, it make a product. What is the craft skill used to produce a larger diamond? What is the DC?
A cut larger diamond could certainly be a product. And it is the same material as smaller diamonds. I see no reason why fabricate would not work.
DC 20 would seem appropriate as this is the DC for a "superior" product. A 5,000 gp diamond would probably be considered a superior product.