Nerf Bats and Pain!!!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I would guess that it was simply the Scarred Witch Doctor being a 9-level arcane caster with raging Barbarian HP that brought the hammer down.


What happened to fencing grace?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
What happened to fencing grace?

It now requires a hand free as of Ultimate Intrigue's reprinting of the feat. So no TWF or spell combat or anything else like that.


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They really want to force Dex Magi to use scimitars, don't they?


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BadBird wrote:
I would guess that it was simply the Scarred Witch Doctor being a 9-level arcane caster with raging Barbarian HP that brought the hammer down.

Well, maybe not Barbarian level HP. You could get close to maybe Fighter HP though. 20 Con, d6, Toughtneas, Toad Familair: 11-17 HP at level one. Still not overpowered or even slightly above powered.

Silver Crusade

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Azten wrote:
BadBird wrote:
I would guess that it was simply the Scarred Witch Doctor being a 9-level arcane caster with raging Barbarian HP that brought the hammer down.
Well, maybe not Barbarian level HP. You could get close to maybe Fighter HP though. 20 Con, d6, Toughtneas, Toad Familair: 11-17 HP at level one. Still not overpowered or even slightly above powered.

Don't forget Tribal Scars, there's an extra 6.


Azten wrote:
BadBird wrote:
I would guess that it was simply the Scarred Witch Doctor being a 9-level arcane caster with raging Barbarian HP that brought the hammer down.
Well, maybe not Barbarian level HP. You could get close to maybe Fighter HP though. 20 Con, d6, Toughtneas, Toad Familair: 11-17 HP at level one. Still not overpowered or even slightly above powered.

By the time a +4 primary ability item and some level bonuses are in play though...

Barbarian ~7+4CON /level
Witch Doctor ~4+7CON /level
Witch ~4+2CON/level


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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
They really want to force Dex Magi to use scimitars, don't they?

And Scimitar is a slashing Rapier mecanically....

My concern is in order to avoid abuse (???) by gish or casters, they nerf the feat that can help non-casters to be a little more efficient...
Instead of putting limits on it, like melee class limitation ( Fighter 4, Swashbuckler 4, ....) they choose to reduce effectiveness of the feat, I don't think that a feat that require two feats to be taken is more OP than a feat that need one feat and 2 skill points....
and honestly I don't think that a 20 dext Magi and a 20 STR magi are doing more damage with the same weapon, you have more advantages to use Dex but you will have to pay for it with limited ressources


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
They really want to force Dex Magi to use scimitars, don't they?

Actually, looks to me like the Slashing Grace FAQ would potentially also apply to Dervish Dance ("You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand") -- when performing Spell Combat or a Flurry, you are considered to be doing a form of Two-Weapon Fighting, even though technically you don't have anything in your off hand.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
They really want to force Dex Magi to use scimitars, don't they?
Actually, looks to me like the Slashing Grace FAQ would potentially also apply to Dervish Dance ("You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand") -- when performing Spell Combat or a Flurry, you are considered to be doing a form of Two-Weapon Fighting, even though technically you don't have anything in your off hand.

No, the Slashing Grace FAQ doesn't apply to anything other than Slashing Grace. Different feats with different wording work differently.


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^The Dervish Dance wording isn't very different from the Slashing Grace wording, so even if the Slashing Grace FAQ doesn't apply right now, the developers (Errata'ers?) will eventually realize that they missed one, and nerf it too (although Rules As Intended if not Rules As Written, it looks like the Slashing Grace FAQ already does this, by way of analogy in how the feats work).

Sovereign Court

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^The Dervish Dance wording isn't very different from the Slashing Grace wording, so even if the Slashing Grace FAQ doesn't apply right now, the developers (Errata'ers?) will eventually realize that they missed one, and nerf it too (although Rules As Intended if not Rules As Written, it looks like the Slashing Grace FAQ already does this, by way of analogy in how the feats work).

Dervish Dance has been around for a long time, so I doubt it. I think the main reason that Slashing Grace is worded that way is to prevent TWF with it, not Spell Combat specifically - which is already impossible to do with Dervish Dance.


The PDT has stated, several times, that an FAQ only applies to that specific thing. Slashing Grace's nerf-by-FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance.

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