PFS Morality and "Monster races"


Pathfinder Society

51 to 84 of 84 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Muser wrote:
I'd let the characters perform some very simple deduction. Meet some elves underground decked in spiky leathers wielding hand crossbows and darkness magics...well, they can't be Ekujae can they? Swarthy colors or no.

I'd start checking them for wayfinders.

"Your players used to play world of darkness didn't they?"

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I was thinking Warhammer, but yes.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Aberrant Templar wrote:
On Golarion, specific to that campaign setting, there is a lot more to the distinction between drow and non-drow elves than just their physical appearance.

Right, but I'm going through town and I encounter a creature. It looks like a dark-skinned elf. I really can't put two and two together to call them a "Dark Elf"?

I instead take a DC15+CR knowledge and fail, so I determine that I have no idea what the creature is, despite knowing what elves are and knowing that this creature is identical to an elf with a different skin tone...

No, because they don't match any type of elf you have really heard of, and, due to some of the visual differences, they are, obviously, not your Mother's Elf. "Black" elves look similar to "Black" humans, both, likely, from the heart of the Mwangi Expanse. On the other hand, some elf-like being with obsidian black skin? Doesn't match any type of Elf you have ever heard of. Might be some sort of distant relative, or even some other type of Fey, or some sort of construct masquerading as a living creature.

To be honest, there is no guarantee, even in the real world, that you could tell someone is mixed origin, if one of the origins is dominant in the appearance. Same holds true for Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, and such. Some of them look like one of their parent's types more than the other. Aasimar, in the lore, even look more like idealized Humans than divine beings.

Also, on another point, Archives of Nethys is not a source, there should have been, on each of those alternate Racial traits, an actual Paizo source book. In addition, as an alternate trait, they are not your standard Elf/Dwarf/Orc trait, they are in the minority.

On some intial, accidental research:
Ancient Enmity (Dwarf) comes from the ARG, reprinted from the APG, both part of the Pathfinder Rules line, not the Golarion Campaign setting line.
Eternal Grudge (Elf) also comes from the ARG & APG.
Hatred (Half-Orc) comes from Agents of Evil, which is a Player COmpanion, not a Campaign Setting book, so setting agnostic.

Savage Elf, Tower Elf, Dusk Elf, Arctic Elf, are some of the types of Elves, besides generic.

On first glance, until you know better (make a Knowledge check), Quicklings look like short and slight Elves...
Azata, Bralani are described as Silver-white hair the color of a lightning strike whips about this poised elf-like archer, his eyes swirling with vibrant colors.
Erlking are described as Birdlike wings covered with autumnal leaves instead of feathers extend from the back of this regal, elf-like humanoid.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I often wish there was some repercussions for players that go full murder-hobo, preferably repercussions that affect individual offending players/characters rather than tables as a whole.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Feral wrote:
I often wish there was some repercussions for players that go full murder-hobo, preferably repercussions that affect individual offending players/characters rather than tables as a whole.

Likewise. They can be tough to work in, but there are a few ways I've experimented with individual rewards (and penalties). Now that I think about it, I haven't heard any feedback about the most recent one, and I've barely received any feedback about the others. Getting others' thoughts on the concept of individual rewards/penalties that represent a portion of the adventure's rewards (<25% of the gold or a boon, for example) could make a great topic for a different thread.

Scarab Sages

John Compton wrote:

As for the original topic, I like to introduce opportunities to resolve encounters—even those with traditionally villainous creatures—in a nonviolent way. I imagine that most Pathfinders' educations include warnings that many creatures are dangerous yet that those same creatures can sometimes be ready sources of information or trade for a resourceful explorer who's willing to make an effort and a bribe. Xorns, otyughs, and many neutral-yet-not-"civilized" humanoids are common examples. Even evil creatures are sometimes willing to risk cooperating with adventurers to avert mutual destruction or secure a mutually beneficial outcome.

In this way, "shoot on sight" is not necessarily a healthy approach to being a Pathfinder. Ultimately, the adventures trust the PCs' judgment by presenting several outcomes for key encounters that might play out in a variety of ways. These adventures rarely punish someone for carnage committed against [inherently] evil creatures, but remorseless bloodlust might just mean missing out on additional information and opportunities.

Thanks for weighing in on this one.

Scarab Sages

Martin Weil wrote:
Also, on another point, Archives of Nethys is not a source, there should have been, on each of those alternate Racial traits, an actual Paizo source book.

You are confusing concepts. I meant that the wording as quoted was found on that site, not that that site is the original source of that information. Posts get confused online all the time because people use the book's source instead of the website they copied it from, which can create issues if the site had a typo. It's a good habit to mention where you found things so others can verify the information and be on the same page.

I agree otherwise. I use Archives of Nethys for forum posts because it's handy to copy and paste. If we were in person, I'd get my physical book to that page to show you. Just a matter of ease for us in the digital world.

As for the Pathfinder Rules Vs Golarion Campaign Setting, I guess I'm unclear how I would know where those lines have been drawn. The Bestiary sure doesn't mention that its info is not for use with the Golarion Campaign setting. Is there an official list, somewhere, of fluff content to ignore if playing PFS?

5/5

Store

Anything in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game category is not Golarion specific.

Notice the title illustration. "Roleplaying Game"

Each of the different book lines has its own logo.

Scarab Sages

Muser wrote:
I'd let the characters perform some very simple deduction. Meet some elves underground decked in spiky leathers wielding hand crossbows and darkness magics...well, they can't be Ekujae can they? Swarthy colors or no.

Could be a band of Lawful Neutral clerics of Zon Kuthon, who all just happen to be elves. Maybe it's a religious retreat and the crossbows are for some odd form of ranged body piercing...

I know, silly, but I prefer silly in RPGs.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Murdock Mudeater wrote:


Could be a band of Lawful Neutral clerics of Zon Kuthon, who all just happen to be elves. Maybe it's a religious retreat and the crossbows are for some odd form of ranged body piercing...

I know, silly, but I prefer silly in RPGs.

A new racial category of elves?

The Emo Elves?

Elves so Emo they cut themselves... and everyone else? They're not evil, they just have a vastly different method of understanding things?

Scarab Sages

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Elves so Emo they cut themselves... and everyone else? They're not evil, they just have a vastly different method of understanding things?

Maybe.

I have wondered about making an albino Drow, or an elf that claims to be an albino drow. Not for PFS mind you, more of an NPC idea. Still, I think a white-skinned Dark Elf would make for a pretty awesome NPC.

Though it would create issues with the current rules for knowledge checks....You'd probably want to include a special rule regarding misidentifying him, or treated as a passive disguise.

Then you'd have him/her play the role of a double agent between the Drow and the surface races.

But I'm sidetracked. Thanks all for answering my questions. This one seems resolved.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

John Compton wrote:
Likewise. They can be tough to work in, but there are a few ways I've experimented with individual rewards (and penalties). Now that I think about it, I haven't heard any feedback about the most recent one, and I've barely received any feedback about the others. Getting others' thoughts on the concept of individual rewards/penalties that represent a portion of the adventure's rewards (<25% of the gold or a boon, for example) could make a great topic for a different thread.

Thanks John. Just knowing that you're brainstorming solutions is a comfort.

During a scenario last Paizocon, midway through the pre-final encounter dialogue with the BBEG, this literally happened:

Paladin sitting next to me: "I detect evil".

GM: "She detects as evil."

Paladin sitting next to me: "I smite and full attack her".

And of course said smiting full attack instantly gibbed the BBEG denying the entire table an opportunity to understand her motivations and/or the overall plot of the scenario.


andreww wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Some evil is so heinous, that kill on sight is perfectly acceptable. I.e. Demons, Devils, Undead, and Drow.

This does raise an odd contradiction.

How exactly are Drow kill on sight when only a tiny handful of esoteric scholars know they exist and there is an entire elven organisation dedicated to suppressing all knowledge of their existence?

Drow will generally make the question moot by attacking you first.

The only real question is whether you'll still be concious after the first round of their sneak ambush.


Feral wrote:

Thanks John. Just knowing that you're brainstorming solutions is a comfort.

During a scenario last Paizocon, midway through the pre-final encounter dialogue with the BBEG, this literally happened:

Paladin sitting next to me: "I detect evil".

GM: "She detects as evil."

Paladin sitting next to me: "I smite and full attack her".

And of course said smiting full attack instantly gibbed the BBEG denying the entire table an opportunity to understand her motivations and/or the overall plot of the scenario.

BBEG's need to learn to stop going into a monologue

Liberty's Edge 5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Blackvial wrote:
Feral wrote:

Thanks John. Just knowing that you're brainstorming solutions is a comfort.

During a scenario last Paizocon, midway through the pre-final encounter dialogue with the BBEG, this literally happened:

Paladin sitting next to me: "I detect evil".

GM: "She detects as evil."

Paladin sitting next to me: "I smite and full attack her".

And of course said smiting full attack instantly gibbed the BBEG denying the entire table an opportunity to understand her motivations and/or the overall plot of the scenario.

BBEG's need to learn to stop going into a monologue

I actually will look at the player with a smirk (so they know I'm only mock chastising) and say, "Hey, knock it off, I'm monologuing!"

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Blackvial wrote:

During a scenario last Paizocon, midway through the pre-final encounter dialogue with the BBEG, this literally happened:

Paladin sitting next to me: "I detect evil".

GM: "She detects as evil."

Paladin sitting next to me: "I smite and full attack her".

And of course said smiting full attack instantly gibbed the BBEG denying the entire table an opportunity to understand her motivations and/or the overall plot of the scenario.

Detect Evil is an SLA and therefore obvious. I would have put the group into initiative immediately on it being activated.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Andrew Christian wrote:

I actually will look at the player with a smirk (so they know I'm only mock chastising) and say, "Hey, knock it off, I'm monologuing!"

I've had a BBEG, upon seeing a character start to pop out buffs, call out their lack of tact and refuse to fight without saying their piece.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Muser wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

I actually will look at the player with a smirk (so they know I'm only mock chastising) and say, "Hey, knock it off, I'm monologuing!"

I've had a BBEG, upon seeing a character start to pop out buffs, call out their lack of tact and refuse to fight without saying their piece.

Yeah, I don't let character's buff, cast spells, use abilities, or anything, while a Monologue is going on.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

Stopping the monologue invalidates tactics.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

:)

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Our local phrase is "soliloquy takes no time".


Murdock Mudeater wrote:


I have wondered about making an albino Drow, or an elf that claims to be an albino drow. Not for PFS mind you, more of an NPC idea. Still, I think a white-skinned Dark Elf would make for a pretty awesome NPC.

Why would a character want to walk around claiming to be their race's most hated enemy? A being that is KOS to the Lantern Bearers. What's his motivation? His justifcation for having knowledge accessible only through a player's setting book?

Scarab Sages

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:


I have wondered about making an albino Drow, or an elf that claims to be an albino drow. Not for PFS mind you, more of an NPC idea. Still, I think a white-skinned Dark Elf would make for a pretty awesome NPC.

Why would a character want to walk around claiming to be their race's most hated enemy? A being that is KOS to the Lantern Bearers. What's his motivation? His justifcation for having knowledge accessible only through a player's setting book?

No, the idea is that NPC is a Drow born as an albino. And no, he doesn't broadcast this, which is the challenge, because at first glance, a white Drow is easily mistaken as an elf. So, this drow integrates them self in surface politics and plays for both sides, the drow and the surface dwellers.

Would be a fun NPC, is all. Obviously, they'd need a better personality than just this superficial concept.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:


I have wondered about making an albino Drow, or an elf that claims to be an albino drow. Not for PFS mind you, more of an NPC idea. Still, I think a white-skinned Dark Elf would make for a pretty awesome NPC.

Why would a character want to walk around claiming to be their race's most hated enemy? A being that is KOS to the Lantern Bearers. What's his motivation? His justifcation for having knowledge accessible only through a player's setting book?

No, the idea is that NPC is a Drow born as an albino. And no, he doesn't broadcast this, which is the challenge, because at first glance, a white Drow is easily mistaken as an elf. So, this drow integrates them self in surface politics and plays for both sides, the drow and the surface dwellers.

Would be a fun NPC, is all. Obviously, they'd need a better personality than just this superficial concept.

Drow already have a spell to insinuate Elven society... it's called Ancestral Regression. Albinism comes with a lot of frailties that would make such a character weeded out Darwinian style.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

For the record, albino drow are an established thing in other settings. ^_^

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I feel it's fair to hold to a strict policy of "you will not be punished for letting the bad guy monologue, and will not gain advantage by interrupting him". That takes off the pressure to do so.

If instead the BBEG is trying to filibuster while his minions are doing prepwork, that's a good time for Sense Motive checks.

Sovereign Court

Hey, I've only interrupted monologues with a thrown shield to the face three times! Okay, four if you count that orc, but he wasn't so much monologing as mumbling to himself.

-c

2/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

IMO, villains should be allowed a free monologue as long as PCs are allowed free snide commentary about the monologue.


robertness wrote:
IMO, villains should be allowed a free monologue as long as PCs are allowed free snide commentary about the monologue.

Snide commentary is definitely in the Not an Action category.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Jessex wrote:
robertness wrote:
IMO, villains should be allowed a free monologue as long as PCs are allowed free snide commentary about the monologue.
Snide commentary is definitely in the Not an Action category.

Would I be out of line as a GM to rule it as a full-round action that provokes?

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Baroness Calliope Zhan Blakros wrote:

Hey, I've only interrupted monologues with a thrown shield to the face three times! Okay, four if you count that orc, but he wasn't so much monologing as mumbling to himself.

-c

BBEG, on a throne, across a large room: "You are not worthy of approaching me! You must prove yourself before coming closer."

Zen Archer: "No, that's OK--I'm fine where I am." (opens fire)

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Dorothy Lindman wrote:
Baroness Calliope Zhan Blakros wrote:

Hey, I've only interrupted monologues with a thrown shield to the face three times! Okay, four if you count that orc, but he wasn't so much monologing as mumbling to himself.

-c

BBEG, on a throne, across a large room: "You are not worthy of approaching me! You must prove yourself before coming closer."

Zen Archer: "No, that's OK--I'm fine where I am." (opens fire)

That was the BBEG's own fault for opening the floor to discussion.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I feel it's fair to hold to a strict policy of "you will not be punished for letting the bad guy monologue, and will not gain advantage by interrupting him". That takes off the pressure to do so.

If instead the BBEG is trying to filibuster while his minions are doing prepwork, that's a good time for Sense Motive checks.

Absolutely. I don't penalize the players for the BBEG monologuing.

Scarab Sages

zefig wrote:
Jessex wrote:
robertness wrote:
IMO, villains should be allowed a free monologue as long as PCs are allowed free snide commentary about the monologue.
Snide commentary is definitely in the Not an Action category.
Would I be out of line as a GM to rule it as a full-round action that provokes?

The NPC monologue or the Snide Commentary by PCs?

I think the snide commentary could reasonably warrant the NPC stop their speech mid-sentence and just start combat there, with the PCs never learning what the NPC intended to say.

As for the speech, really depends on how the NPC presents it and how focused they are on it. If they're reading a pre-prepared speech from memory or a piece of paper, they may be distracted and may provoke. If they are just talking while keeping their eyes on the on the players, they may be guarded enough to not provoke.

You could, of course, just start the combat round when the PCs encounter the NPC and just do the speech in the surprise round.

51 to 84 of 84 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / PFS Morality and "Monster races" All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.