Help build my slayer for giantslayer, please...


Advice

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I would love some advice on building a Halfling slayer for the giantslayer AP. I want to start him out at level 1 as a rogue with the vexing dodger, only for the cool climb your large foes ability. I like the image of my feral slayer leaping on his giant ones and climbing them to stab and taunt them. He'll also have the fleet of foot racial, so he has a 30' movement.

As for slayer I'm not sure where to go? Ranger two weapon? He'll probably uses kukri's. Is the antagonise feat worth it? I can take the trait that lets me ignore the penalties for size difference. I kind of see him as a nuisance type, enraging his foes, climbing all over, but I'm pretty sure I can up the damage some how - piranha strike, risky striker.

I think I can easily get AC up fairly high but I'm not 100% on the feats available, there are a lot for dodge bonuses.

Any advice is appreciated.


If you are planning to go with a dex build, and it really sounds like you are, then you should probably just go full unchained rogue. The slayer excels more in ranged builds or strength based builds.

Liberty's Edge

Alternatively, you could go 3 levels in Unchained Vexing Dodger then switch to Slayer. Since you now have Dex to Damage with the weapon of your choice, you can use Slayer for full BAB and bonus feats, as well as increasing your sneak attack dice. Finding a way to secure sneak attack damage will be tricky, though. When you are on a creature, you share a space with it, so you are not opposite any squares for flanking. Gang Up could work, if you can work with your team.


The biggest issue you need to face is closing the distance with the giant. Eating an AoO to the face from entering their reach really hurts... If your party is going to have a beefy, heavy armor front-liner then this is less of an issue. If not, definitely make sure you have a way to approach the giant undetected. Or make sure you have a SUPER high Acrobatics bonus.

Grand Lodge

I highly recommend the Regional Feat- Big Game Hunter.

+1 to attack and +2 to damage with any weapon used against a Large and bigger opponent. That is basically Weapon focus-All weapons and Weapon Specialization- All weapons.

For the Slayer I highly recommend a Switch Hitter with a Sling-staff for that lovely Halfling Feel. You can easily accomplish this on a Slayer due to Ranger feats and Rogue Combat Trick. You can just load up on the necessary feats. All you need to get weapon wise is a +1 Seeking, Giant Bane weapon and you are freaking Golden.

I do not recommend core rogues for anything...I would avoid it like a herpes fill leper Prostitute with a cleft lip that is missing a leg. UnRogue is better but do you really want to be in Light armor, D8 HD, and only a reflex save? Against Giants who will hit you and put you in the grave with 1-2 attacks. Like James said...Take Unrogue 3 levels then go slayer OR pick a class that does the rogues job but better. (Inquisitor, Bard, Alchemist, Investigator, Skald, Slayer, ranger...)


You should look at the halfling opportunist prestige class it has all sorts of win for the halfling especially in giant slayer


Hmmm...how about an outslug style build?

Outslug is interesting. It gives you penalty free lunges, and it gives you an extra 5' to your 5' step (so 10' step). That means you can engage even huge creatures without provoking. The 10' step can avoid AoOs, and lunge makes your reach greater.

It is a great style, since it makes it easier to full attack (you can hit anything in a circle 45' wide) making it an alternative to pounce, and it is well suited to fighting big opponents.

Note the outslug style is meant for close weapons. So that means a cestus, basically. You will be punching the giants below the belt...I mean above the knees with spiked gauntlets, basically.

Note that you may want to save a slayer/rogue talent to get combat feats, since it can be wonky to get this going by level 9 otherwise.

Dataphiles

A couple Feats to consider: Seething Hatred lets you double the bonus to your damage rolls to one creature type(Giants in this case) when you select it as the target of Studied Target, and Extreme Prejudice lets you roll d8's for Sneak Attack against the creature type you chose for Seething Hatred.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Thanks folks. Unchained rogue 3 works well for the Dex to damage, so 3 levels of that.

For sneak I can probably take the accomplished sneak attacker feat, adds 1 die (up to half you character level max) and can take it several times.

He's also going to be a twin kukri's weilder. So first three levels:

Unchained rogue
2 wpn fighting
Piranha strike

Alt racial traits fleet of foot (30' speed), underfoot (+1AC dodge), underfoot dodger (+5 acrobatics moving through larger foes spaces)

Traits are giant dodger +3 acrobatics to avoid AOO)
Other I'm uncertain but probably dwarf trained for the +1 dodge vs Giants.

After this I'm open to slayer, barbarian or some other class. I think I just like the slayer.

20 point buy, 19 Dex, 14 con, rest 10's

Liberty's Edge

Are you starting at level 1?
If yes, you may want to twist your stats a bit. Or take level 1 as a Slayer. You will have +4 to hit, assuming some finesse weapon, and +0 damage. You are also not proficient with your weapon of choice. Slayer 1 grants 2 more health, and all weapon proficencies. Also studied target for a minor damage boost.

Are you allowed to retrain?
If yes, start level 1 as an archer with deadly aim. Retrain it later into Two Weapon Fighting. With a longbow, studied target, and deadly aim, you can deal 1d6+3 from the back till your dex to damage comes online. Can always draw and move in if the field gets messy.

Other than that, sounds like a fun character. Good luck and have fun.


Kukri and sneak attacks don't have great synergy, as you don't multiple the sneak attack damage on a crit. Unless you want kukri for flavor, you'd do about as well just using daggers.

Liberty's Edge

Melkiador, he could be super generous and take Butterfly's Sting, and start giving those crits away to someone wielding something scarier.

Grand Lodge

Cat-thulhu wrote:

I think I just like the slayer.

20 point buy, 19 Dex, 14 con, rest 10's

Slayer 20 PB:

Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 13, Int: 10, Wis: 12, Cha: 9
(Level ups go: 4 +1 Con, Then @ 8 & 12 +2 to Dex or Str)

Halfling Alternative Trait: War Slinger Alternative choices: Adaptable Luck

Feats:
1: Slipslinger Style
2: Ranger combat Style- Rapid Shot
3: Ammo Dump
4: Rogue Talent- Combat Trick- Power Attack
5: Deadly Aim
6: Improved Precise Shot
7: Big Game Hunter
8: Rogue Talent- Combat Trick- Halfling Slinger (+1 to all attacks with your sling staff)
9: Improved Critical- Sling-staff
10: Advanced Trick- Evasion
11: Extra Slayer Talent- Advanced Rogue Talent Opportunist

I recommend with this Build a +1 Giant Bane Sling Staff. Then try to get as big a + to it as possible for increase accuracy and damage.

Get a belt of Giant Strength +4 for damage purposes.

Enjoy the ease of a switch hitter with Halfling Flavor all over it. Playing as a slayer is fun. I prefer the Warpriest version a bit better but this wont be too bad with full BaB and Studied target you will be Hitting Regularly for decent damage.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I had toyed with that. Imagine the furious Halfling climbing all over that giant, stabbing and growling and antagonising the giant into focusing on him, while the scary fighter with the scythe soaks up those Crits. That's why I'm still toying with the level of barbarian - Titan brawler. That gives him the growling feral rage. Of course slayer 1, rogue 3, BnB 1, then slayer onward may be a little too many classes.

Would sticking with barbarian be better? With the unchained version the bonus is to damage and attack, not Str, so Dex is very viable. You can also get raging climber. Is there any way to negate the AC penalty for raging?

Liberty's Edge

Sorry, Cat-thulhu, I am not overly experienced with Barbarians. Give me a bit to do some research. Are you still thinking 3 levels in Unchained Rogue?

Liberty's Edge

So I just ran through the Barbarian Archetypes. If you choose to be an urban barbarian, you give up fast movement and medium armor, but you can apply your rage to Dex and don't take an AC penalty while raging. Other than that, not really. There is one with firearms that has a similar effect, Savage Technologist.

You can also Urban Bloodrager for a similar effect and ease of use of lots of wands.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

The unchained barbarian simply adds to attack and damage, not a particular stat, so it can add to the Dex based character as easily as strength. He could also get climbing rage to help in climbing those pesky Giants. You can also get stances which can be good at a first reading - powerful stance that adds +2 damage or guardian that adds +2 AC. Could be a good fun little character.

I'm also very pleased with 3 levels of Inchained backing dodger, Dex to damage and ability to climb medium or larger foes is just cool

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Cat-thulhu wrote:

I think I just like the slayer.

20 point buy, 19 Dex, 14 con, rest 10's

** spoiler omitted **

Enjoy the ease of a switch hitter with Halfling Flavor all over it. Playing as a slayer is fun. I prefer the Warpriest version a bit better but this wont be too bad with full BaB and Studied target you will be Hitting Regularly for decent damage.

Do tell, please show me the war priest version. I've contemplated the class, just not sure how they go on paper.


JamesTheDonkey wrote:

So I just ran through the Barbarian Archetypes. If you choose to be an urban barbarian, you give up fast movement and medium armor, but you can apply your rage to Dex and don't take an AC penalty while raging. Other than that, not really. There is one with firearms that has a similar effect, Savage Technologist.

You can also Urban Bloodrager for a similar effect and ease of use of lots of wands.

Bloodrager would give him the opportunity to have a familiar (Boo!) and take Escape Route, and completely avoid the entire problem of threatening areas for opponents.

Grand Lodge

Cat-thulhu wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Cat-thulhu wrote:

I think I just like the slayer.

20 point buy, 19 Dex, 14 con, rest 10's

** spoiler omitted **

Enjoy the ease of a switch hitter with Halfling Flavor all over it. Playing as a slayer is fun. I prefer the Warpriest version a bit better but this wont be too bad with full BaB and Studied target you will be Hitting Regularly for decent damage.

Do tell, please show me the war priest version. I've contemplated the class, just not sure how they go on paper.

Here is just a quick sum up of It.

Halfling Slingstaff Priest:

Str: 14, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int; 10, Wis: 15, Cha: 9
Alternate Racials:
Warslinger
Adaptive Luck

Traits:
Fate's Favored
Transmuter- Bulls's Str (+1 to CL of ALL transmutations AND 1/day EXTENDED Animal Buff.)

Blessings: Good/Evil (Cheap DR By pass with a Battle Companion)
_________(take your Pick)

Feats:
1: Slipslinger Style
1: Weapon Focus- Slingstaff
3:Power Attack
3: Deadly Aim
5: Weapon Specialization
6: Ammo Dump
7: Big Game Hunter
9: Improved Critical- Sling Staff
9: Greater Weapon Focus- Sling Staff
11: Quicken Blessing
12: Greater Weapon Specialization

Spells:
1- Divine Favor, Spiked Armor (For Nasty Grab creatures..you are a halfling after all)
2- Bull's Str
3- Magic Vestment, Prayer
4- Divine Power, Greater Magic Weapon (Level 11+), Freedom of Movement

Needed Gear:
+1 Seeking, ________(giant bane looks good) Slingstaff (I Use GMW so I load up on special abilities here and then pump it further with Sacred Weapon and my blessing. Becomes a really epic Weapon)

Lesser Extend Rod- Daily extend Magic Vestment

+1 (Giant for Giant Slayer) Defiant, ________ Armor (Like the Weapon I like to go with Lots of SPecial abilities and then I add Static Bonuses with Magic Vestment and Sacred Armor. It comes out to be pretty epic Armor.)

The Idea is to deliver Big Hits with Weapons Specializtion + Power attack/Deadly Aim + Slipslinger + Big Game Hunter + Divine Favor. You should also be hitting decently with all the Bonuses to hit with the build. Accuracy is key to damage and this guy is consistent if anything. The ammo dump allows your ranged attack to keep up with Iterative attacks. You could build Rapid Shot but I found trying to Rapid Shot + Deadly aim to hurt my accuracy too much and did a lot better in play test of the build just sticking to adding big numbers to less bullets and making them stick.


Maybe combine it with Mouser, the Swashbuckler archetype. She can enter a foe's square also and she flanks once an ally is adjacent to both you and the opponent. Dodging panache deed doesn't hurt to not get hurt... One level of Mouser might be enough already.


Don't you mean Ammo Drop for the feat that lets you load as a swift? Also won't he need Juggle Load, the follow on feat that changes loading to a free action?

Grand Lodge

Lastoth wrote:
Don't you mean Ammo Drop for the feat that lets you load as a swift? Also won't he need Juggle Load, the follow on feat that changes loading to a free action?

Slipslinger makes all sling Traits/Feats work on a sling-staff.

Free action reload with 2 hands with Warslinger.

Ammo Dump turns it into a 1 handed free action reload. When combined with Warslinger Alternate Trait.

So no need to pick up Juggle Load


Neat, what's the benefit of doing it all one handed? A shield?

Grand Lodge

It is typically 2 hands to reload and your holding a 2 handed weapon (The Sling Staff).

You can take 1 hand off the weapon to reload but requiring 2 hands requires you to put the weapon down and then pick it back up...not very good idea in combat.

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