7-16 Faithless and Forgotten Part 2 GM thread


GM Discussion

101 to 124 of 124 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a home group that is half way through this one, before we had to pause it because it got too late.

To be honest, if I had read the end of part two before we started part one, I would have ran the group through something else. And that is a shame, because the rest of this one, and all of part three is great.

But knowing the way my party plays, especially my parties Paladin the end of part two will force them to do things that their characters would not do.

There are two lawful characters in the party. They have no way to play within their alignment and complete the scenario. That is a fail in my book.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Manchester aka Merisal The Risen

Read the warrant again guys. There is nothing in that warrant says she can arrest the PCs. Question yes Arrest no. Just make it abundantly clear she is overstepping her authority. ("You have the right to see your arrest warrant" flutters it from balcony but has no intention of letting them read it) and take it from there

Silver Crusade *****

Jeff Cook wrote:
Read the warrant again guys. There is nothing in that warrant says she can arrest the PCs. Question yes Arrest no. Just make it abundantly clear she is overstepping her authority. ("You have the right to see your arrest warrant" flutters it from balcony but has no intention of letting them read it) and take it from there

If that were the intended interpretation I'd expect there to be a knowledge local or profession lawyer check for a character to realize that fact.

Because "right to question" in Cheliax almost certainly does include "right to detain" and very probably "right to torture".

And "this lawful authority is overstepping their authority" does NOT legally mean that you have the right to resist arrest. It means that you are supposed to go along right now and bring it up later.

Cops constantly overstep their authority in the real world. Doesn't let people get away with killing them. Even in modern, law abiding, "good" nations. Let alone in police states.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

I don't think this should be that problematic for paladins. Regrettable, perhaps. But you are NOT the one at fault.

The Hellknights worship The Law, not Justice. Their ultimate sanction derives from the Prince of Lies. House Thrune betrayed Aroden's legacy and sold itself to Hell.

Quote:
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority,

Let me repeat. HELL.

Just because it's official doesn't mean it's just or fair. You are being arrested, and most probably being sent to a gulag, for associating with someone who told the truth about the history of Cheliax.

Before deciding a paladin is in trouble for resisting that arrest, you really have to wonder if a government that does all that is still a legitimate authority. Because if it isn't, the paladin is entirely within his rights to resist capture by these evildoers.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

There's also the chance of one of the Paladin's more disorganized counterparts simply starting the battle in a fit of pique. It's not even as if paladins don't fight against the regime on an ongoing basis.

And a GM, if s/he senses a potential alignment challenge (after all, paladins don't have a monopoly on the whole lawful thing) could always ad-lib some monologue. Perhaps about how what's-her-name is going to take a personal interest in all of the horrible things she can do--outside the justice system, of course--to the group responsible for the (implied) death of her previous familiar, or the saving of unaltered histories, or the death of her underlings, or whatever. Now that we know what's in Part 3, there's also the possibility of implying that

Spoiler alert for part 3!:
they'll spend the rest of their pitiful little lives bound and tortured in the most sinister prison Cheliax has got. You don't get a trial if you're dead beforehand!

I mean, Chelaxian law enforcement is not nice people...

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Ok my question has nothing to do with the end of adventure but with the beginning.

On Page 6,:
The Society has provided the PCs with basic archaeological equipment (picks, shovels, brushes, sacks, parchment tags, and notebooks) and sufficient funds to cover essential expenses and purchase mounts; they can keep anything left over as a bonus.

How much is provided? How do I determine the leftover? Or is this just flavor?

I am inclined to allow them the basics, but nothing extra.

Thank you,

Silver Crusade *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I definitely treated it as just flavour (especially the left over) designed to avoid having to spend time with the characters shopping for equipment.

Player: So, do we need
GM interrupts: You've got all the basic stuff you'll need. Move on

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

@Gary: an intentionally vague amount that has nothing to do with how much money you earn from the adventure afterwards. Just enough to say "we buy typical archeology gear" without having to worry about what that is exactly and how much it costs. Then when you're looking for a notebook or a trowel or casting plaster, you can just grab it from the pack.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

Agreed with Paul and Lau. I used it as flavor. For me it served two purposes--first, it provided context for the type of work the society was expecting them to do. I tried to use it to help my players understand that they were expected to do actual archaeology, not just tomb-robbing or murderhoboing. That way, maybe they would actually pay attention to the clues they were supposed to pay attention to. (In practice, of course, I drew the party with one person with a rank in K:History, for a total mod of +1...)

Second, it provided a rationalization for the "chase" scene on the approach to the site--sure, the person with 120-feet-per-round movement speed can run ahead, but that doesn't help the pack mules if you do that.

The downside is that it complicates certain creative approaches to exiting the city--what size of bag of holding do you need to hold all this gear? How much money do we have left over to bribe officials? But those aren't too difficult to work around if you walk into it as GM knowing you'll have to ad-lib a bit if it comes up. You run into that all the time with travel funds and food allotments in PFS anyway. Hopefully your players will understand!

In no circumstances does the leftover money go into their personal accounts, of course. :)

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Thanks all for the feedback. I look forward to running this at Preztcon 2016 on Saturday.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

I'll need to read it more, but I wonder if I can set that last encounter up so that the PC's bring the Arca...[history people] into things and make it a fight of bureaucracy vs bureaucracy and just step back (and loot the museum) while the others work it out.

**

The Athenaeum is located in a different city, specifically Egorian. It's unlikely the PCs could get their aid in time to help.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

robertness wrote:
The Athenaeum is located in a different city, specifically Egorian. It's unlikely the PCs could get their aid in time to help.

If the PCs allow themselves to be arrested and then pay 5PP to get out, you could describe that as Atheneum people doing a favor for the Society (in return for the Society not publicly shaming them for their forgery, perhaps).

* RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

HELP! I'm running this in a couple of days, and I could really use some help understanding one of the basic premises of this scenario...

The first half of the Jistkan ruin is disguised as Taldor ruins. This makes sense. But then why is the second half of the ruin clearly Chelaxian in nature? And then the very last room is strictly Jistkan.

Why would there be a full-blown Chelish temple in these ruins? And who set it up? When?

I thought it might be Athenaeum archaeologists, or the Aspis Consortium, but not only does that undermine their narrative, but it's too well done -- after all, the first two rooms are rife with inaccuracies and obvious forgeries. So how can they have a fully functioning diabolical temple?

To confuse matters even more, the four "keys" to the temple have been there for a long time and some don't match their diabolical nature...

-- The bottom of a dry well (been there for a long time)
-- The corpse of a Chelish soldier (from the everwar)
-- Another Chelish corpse (but the bracelet is described as Jistkan not Chelish)
-- Another corpse (with another Jistkan token)

In summation, why are there monuments to devils in a Jistkan ruin that appear to have killed Chelaxian soldiers? Did the ancient Jistkans worship devils too?

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Keep in mind that the Jistka Imperium predates the Empire of Cheliax. Cheliax only took over the area of the temple after it annexed it from Rahadoum during the Everwar. The second half of the temple, after the illusionary statute of Abadar that covers up the Snakehead symbol of the archdevil Geryon, is the part of the temple that the Cheliax did not try to cover up. In fact, there is not evidence that Cheliax even went past room A3.

The corpses are Chelish because they were raiders of the temple likely from a long time ago.

The Jiska Imperium must have worshiped devils as well, but not the same devil the current ruler of Cheliax worships.

Hopefully this helps.

* RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Gary Bush wrote:

The Jiska Imperium must have worshiped devils as well, but not the same devil the current ruler of Cheliax worships.

Thanks Gary, you must be right. I found a reference that in the Third Period of the Jistka Imperium they switched from genies, efreet and shiatan to daemons, devils and demons to power their golems.

This does indeed help! Hopefully I can relate the same to my players.

Thanks again!

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

1 person marked this as a favorite.

On my table the players did wonder a little about the devils but after it was pointed out (after a making the required Knowledge-Planes) that the temple has Arch-Devils which is different from the main devil Asmodeus.

I like this scenario because it helped me to understand the history of the region better.

*****

I just ran this and have a quick questions about the Hell Knight fights. If the players go all out doing lethal damage and doing enough to outright kill the hell knights is that considered an evil act? Would Lawful characters take an alignment hit since they are completely breaking the law and killing someone who has lawful authority? How should this be handled?

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Riggamortis wrote:
I just ran this and have a quick questions about the Hell Knight fights. If the players go all out doing lethal damage and doing enough to outright kill the hell knights is that considered an evil act? Would Lawful characters take an alignment hit since they are completely breaking the law and killing someone who has lawful authority? How should this be handled?

You'll see that some people feel quite differently, but my take on it is that the PCs are absolutely in their rights to defend themselves vigorously. While the Thrune government is the one in power and making the laws, that doesn't mean that what they're doing is Just. Case in point: these hellknights are here to arrest people for telling the truth about history.

If you've taken a look at earlier scenarios in Cheliax like The Disappeared and Fortress of the Nail, you'll see that there's not really any reason to expect a fair trial where everything will be straightened out. You're being arrested by jackbooted thugs that if you are lucky will just put you in a horrible prison forever. If you look at part 3, you're actually likely to die during interrogation.

While the hellknights are indeed backed by the law, do you consider a government that sold its soul to Hell to be legitimate authority? I would say not (and I guess neither did the author or John Compton). You don't have to let them arrest you.

So is it evil to defend yourself with lethal force? I would say no. They're evil people serving an evil government that's in the process of doing more evil. The world is probably better off without them. Don't torture them to death or anything, but you're well within your rights to kill them to get out. It may not be a "good" act, but it's not an evil act.

In fact, part 3 seems to assume that those hellknights weren't able to report a description of the PCs to the Chelish authorities...

Liberty's Edge Venture-Agent, Online

I'm running this over play-by-post and it's led to a question that the adventure doesn't have a solid answer for. How long is the sandstorm supposed to last? A few minutes, hours, days, just long enough to explore the ruins? All are within the realm of possibility and for most groups it won't matter, but in my case, the wizard made the knowledge check to know that sandstorms are a possibility and thus purchased a copy of tiny hut for his spellbook before they left Corentyn.

So will the 10 hour duration be enough to cover the storm or not? I guess I'd lean towards the storm ending before the spell ran out, but I wonder what was intended.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

The idea's to get them to go where they need to without making it seem like the wizard has wasted his purchase, right? I personally would tend to say the balance is at letting the spell bypass one of the three challenges.

Dust storms are--for the most part--like any other storms, where their duration is measured in hours, usually low-single-digit hours. So one option might be to offer them a window of escape, where one dust storm ends and the next appears to be on the horizon.

Another option might be to use a special sandstorm. On Earth, one example is the Shamal. Sandstorms driven by the Shamal can be 3-5 days long at a time, so maybe that would solve the problem for you.

Liberty's Edge Venture-Agent, Online

Terminalmancer wrote:
The idea's to get them to go where they need to without making it seem like the wizard has wasted his purchase, right? I personally would tend to say the balance is at letting the spell bypass one of the three challenges.

Yeah, which is why I'm a bit disappointed that it ends up being a bit of a trap option. By waiting out the storm, they will forgo the ability to secure the tarp which ends up making their initial investigation harder.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

Michael Hallet wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
The idea's to get them to go where they need to without making it seem like the wizard has wasted his purchase, right? I personally would tend to say the balance is at letting the spell bypass one of the three challenges.
Yeah, which is why I'm a bit disappointed that it ends up being a bit of a trap option. By waiting out the storm, they will forgo the ability to secure the tarp which ends up making their initial investigation harder.

I'm not sure that's a flaw with the scenario so much as it's a flaw with the plan, though. Pathfinders should learn that speed is important sometime!

There's also no reason why you couldn't choose to have the tarp thing happen whenever they do arrive as opposed to during the first sandstorm. I know you want to run this as-written but they're hypothetically going off the rails here, and when that happens you the GM are allowed to rearrange encounters in a way so that things make sense and the PCs find the rails again before they run out of track.

On an unrelated note, I had a thought: where is the wizard planning to put the caravan? In my head there's some number of large pack animals that have accompanied the PCs to the site, and they might not (probably would not?) fit inside the 9 medium creature limit of the hut. I would say he probably needs at least two tiny huts to shelter the entire caravan if a large creature counts as 4 medium creatures...

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Terminalmancer wrote:
Michael Hallet wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:
The idea's to get them to go where they need to without making it seem like the wizard has wasted his purchase, right? I personally would tend to say the balance is at letting the spell bypass one of the three challenges.
Yeah, which is why I'm a bit disappointed that it ends up being a bit of a trap option. By waiting out the storm, they will forgo the ability to secure the tarp which ends up making their initial investigation harder.
I'm not sure that's a flaw with the scenario so much as it's a flaw with the plan, though. Pathfinders should learn that speed is important sometime!

It's a bit of a genre savvy thing. If the natural world seems to be conspiring to hurry you along, then you should probably start fastening your shoelaces, rather than digging your heels in.

101 to 124 of 124 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / GM Discussion / 7-16 Faithless and Forgotten Part 2 GM thread All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in GM Discussion