Marvel's Iron Fist


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OK, then, is IF supposed to be weak enough to struggle as much as he does against these sorts of opponents?


Depends on how much the opponents prepare to fight a better than average martial artist. I mean if it was Batman versus Iron Fist, I might give Danny the fighting edge, but Batman the overall win.

Iron Fist versus say Blade? Iron Fist wins.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Depends on how much the opponents prepare to fight a better than average martial artist. I mean if it was Batman versus Iron Fist, I might give Danny the fighting edge, but Batman the overall win.

Iron Fist versus say Blade? Iron Fist wins.

Depends on whose book the fight is happening in. Batman is one of the biggest mary sues in existence if not the biggest.

Also, I love that code 616 is person with abilities.


I dig the theme of addiction for the season. They wrap pretty much every character in the story in some phase of addiction, and it works pretty well.

10 episodes was still too long. EP3 could have been 2-3 scenes. The coda on EP 10 could have been skipped (it felt super hokey and rushed, you can turn it off after the plane).

Alice Eve was a great addition. Jessica Stroup is still my favorite actor on the show. Henwick holds her own for the most part (and I love where she goes), and Pelphrey gets a good story line to work with.

Can we start a gofundme to cast Finn Jones in a movie that will create scheduling conflicts with all future Iron Fist appearances? Also, season 3 needs to include someone punching a dragon. It's been talked about way too many times for us to not see it happen at this point.


I enjoyed it but it wasn't super good.

I LOVED the addiction themes too. They did an EXCELLENT job with NA. Great work there.


Like most Marvel TV shows now it felt bloated. It could easily have done with 8 episodes, perhaps even 6. The final bit with Danny and two glowing guns made me think of him as Peter Quill from the movies, which is not a good thing.

Better than s1 but not great.

Dark Archive

I like the various shout-outs to the Immortal Iron Fist run, like the Pirate-Queen of Pingshi Bay (sp?), and Orson Randall and his guns, and even the non-powered version of Typhoid Mary.


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The ending gave me a huge WTF moment. It did make me want to hurry and watch the next episode however so they succeeded there. I feel like everything is moving towards something big with luke. Also aparently we are caught up to avenger age of ultron now because they are talking of sokovia. I wonder if the snap will effect those shows eventually.

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Also aparently we are caught up to avenger age of ultron now because they are talking of Sokovia.

Spoiler:
The lack of appearance by the third alter of Mary, and the mention of Sokovia (where Wanda and Pietro were experimented on and became powered) leaves a barest possibility that the third alter could be the powered host of Mary, similar to the one from the comics. Just because Mary's other two alters don't remember being experimented upon by some third parties during her 22 months of captivity, or having super-powers as a result, doesn't mean it didn't happen, and if she flaked out and enter a disassociative episode into an alter that didn't have powers while being tested for such by her tormentors, they might have just assumed that the process failed, and moved on...

.
I do like how the ending made it very freaking clear that Danny wasn't giving anything up, but seeking to find a path to be worthy of his gift, and it not just being something handed to the punchiest of punchers, to then be an unquestioning weapon (as Davos was raised to have become). It nicely nips in the bud anyone who would rightly complain that he just sort of handed it off when it got heavy, since it just makes it part of his hero's journey, and not a stepping off point for the character.

Colleen's been on same sort of journey, trying to prove to herself that she's more than just 'the chick with the sword,' and can be capable and confident and make a difference without it. Her handing it to Danny on a couple of occasions was also a neat touch, warriors entrusting each other with the weapons that have defined them, and pretty much meant everything to them, in the past.

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I'm still only about halfway through. I am getting very, very, very tired after S1 and the Defenders seeing Danny say he's going to do something obviously stupid, then everyone tells him exactly why it's stupid and not to do it, and then he goes and does it anyway. He's a s&#&ty friend and person for never listening to the people around him or respecting their advice, and constantly putting them in danger for his insanely bad decisions, and they're idiots for still being with him, both in bothering to reason with him at all (he DOES have a right to go off and be stupid after all), exposing themselves constantly to the danger he heartlessly and foolishly exposes to them, and allowing him to constantly be disrespectful of their clearly superior wisdom. In a sensible world, Danny would be all alone with no support, and he would deserve it. Maybe I'll get lucky and that's how this season will end, but I doubt it.

The trouble is, I really like everyone else on the cast. I live and breathe for Colleen and Misty and their duo ass whuppings (and they clearly respect each other while letting each other live the way they need to). Colleen and Misty is what a good superhero friendship looks like.

I like the Meachums as messed up and awful as they are. They're messed up and awful in a deeply human way I can at least comprehend and appreciate. And Joy is absolutely right in wanting to wreck Danny, he does spoil everything he touches. I'm fascinated by Mary. I like the kids. I like Mrs. Yang.

I don't care at all for Davos and his pathetic mommy issues, but his shortsighted sad loser pointlessness is a good match for Danny. Both are silly caricatures in a world of otherwise well built full-spectrum characters.

Scarab Sages

The wife and I have two episodes to go, so we should finish up tonight. So far, I've been both please and disappointed.....

Spoiler:
Some of the overarching story arcs have been compelling. Ward's has been very interesting. Same with Davos. The others, not so much. Although Mary's could be better, if they delve more into it.

The martial arts work is definitely improved. I just wish there had been a lot more of it.

I really like eye-patch, and hope he survives the last two episodes.

Not thrilled with how Danny is being portrayed. He seemed a lot more level-headed and competent in his guest role during Luke Cage season 2. I can understand his "why am I fighting?" thing, but it seems a mistake to have him not take the fist back. I'd rather he come to some profound realization why he was chosen and move on.


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I think the worst bit about s2 was how he needed Wing to train him.
In s1 he comes in and effortlessly schools her on how to fight, now he's suddenly way worse than her.


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Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

I think the worst bit about s2 was how he needed Wing to train him.

In s1 he comes in and effortlessly schools her on how to fight, now he's suddenly way worse than her.

as someone who was injured while training and found myself practicing with peers who some would say I eclipsed in skill while recovering, I have to disagree. This was a rather personal part of the story for me, and it gave me some flashbacks- good and bad ones.

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The show is weirdly inconsistent, within itself and the Defenders, about most of the characters' fighting level. Colleen could whup a professional underground fighting ring last season, and then a couple punks get her on the ground early on in this one. Danny's all over the place.

I am not a published fiction writer (because I'm too lazy to finish what I start), but when I write stories, I usually make character sheets for the characters (whether actual game system character sheets or just a list of abilities like "can lift a car over head"). This way as I continue working on a piece, I can refer back to it to be sure I am making sure I am referencing the characters' abilities accurately and consistently. It doesn't matter whether it's a magical/superheroic skill or something like how good someone is at baking. It's just to keep me on track.

I *thought* most TV shows did this sort of thing too, via a series bible. I mean like, the silly-ass cartoon Jem and the Holograms even had a series bible so people could reference the limitations of Synergy's holograms and what the Misfits' backstories were (in b4 the "but that's truly, truly outrageous" joke someone will want to reply with). If Jem and the Holograms can have a series f%$@ing bible, it is messed up if serious Netflix drama doesn't. Are TV writers just really lazy these days? (She asks, already admitting to being lazy herself.)

ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT...

When they first mentioned "Walker" on the show, I did a complete disconnect and suddenly wondered if Trish from JJ was involved. Then of course no, it was Mary Walker.

But then, they look an awful lot alike and have some serious issues (I'd argue Mary deals with hers better, sad to say). Are Trish and Mary related? (I don't mean in comics, but in the MCU.)

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I finished watching the show. Okay Danny, I forgive you a tiny bit. You did finally recognize what an idiot you were being and had some character growth. You're still my least favorite character on your own show, but you no longer unreasonably inducing me foaming at the mouth levels of yell-at-the-TV rage.

I felt like they dragged things out ridiculously long with the final fight--they clearly ran out of story by episode 9 but still had one episode to go--but I liked how it ended for everyone pretty much.

I'm not quite sure what Mary wants from Joy though. I get Mary's issue, but the interaction felt very forced. (Also go Joy in this story; I have mad respect for her in spite of being a manipulative little wench for what she managed to do and go through and survive.)

Bring on Daughters of the Dragon, please please please. Misty and Colleen's friendship is becoming one of the best consistent things about the Netflix Marvelverse.

Bjorn Royrvik wrote:

I think the worst bit about s2 was how he needed Wing to train him.

In s1 he comes in and effortlessly schools her on how to fight, now he's suddenly way worse than her.

Now that I have actually seen these scenes, I gotta say it made absolute sense in the context of the show, and especially in light of what Freehold DM said. He was badly injured and in a much worse emotional state and needed to build back up to where he once was.

Moreover, the scene where Danny beats her back in S1 was pretty early on, and even then she puts in a few good hits before he wins. They never made her appear distinctly outmatched, he just had an edge. And that was before her going into the cage fights, fighting more experientially on the streets, and all the stuff that happened in the Defenders. She's had a chance to improve herself since then, and yes, while he's had more experiences since then too, with him having been knocked off his game and losing his superpower (which he may have become too reliant upon), him asking her to help him build back up from injury makes total sense. Furthermore, she is a good teacher, which is it's own mastery that he doesn't have--it doesn't matter if she's better or worse, to some degree. She was helping him focus in a way just sparring wouldn't. People say "those who can't, teach" but teaching is a skill all its own and it made sense for him to seek a real teacher, rather than just find people to fight with, to rebuild his skills and get balanced again.

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Also aparently we are caught up to avenger age of ultron now because they are talking of Sokovia.

The Netflix stories at this point are after Civil War, before Infinity War. JJ S2 references specifically the Raft and the outcome of the Sokovia Accords. That more formal rules are in place to handle powered individuals (LOL at "We got a 6-1-6" in Iron Fist :) ) is also I think a more subtle reference to the Sokovia Accords.

Also Luke Cage makes references to the 2016 presidential election; Civil War happened before the election (in Civil War there's specific dates on the Sokovia Accord documentation and on Peggy Carter's funeral program that places everything in May of 2016). And Iron Fist S2 very definitely happens after Luke Cage S2 because Misty has her arm and references possibly needing to go after Luke if he goes bad, which is a specific outcome of that storyline.

Scarab Sages

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The wife and I finally finished the show last night, and I've got to say, overall I was 'meh'.

Spoiler:
The characterization of Danny has been inconsistently written since season 1.

When introduced, he was pretty naïve (with regards to his life in New York), but also seemed pretty centered as a person, as a martial artist, and as the champion Iron Fist. In the Defenders he seemed pretty focused and in warrior mode. During his appearance in Luke Cage he seemed still very centered, as well as confident and more comfortable with his life as Danny Rand.

This second season of his own show, it seems they threw all of that away. He was "consumed" by the power of the Iron fist. Worried about what it would do to him, so he hands it off to the woman he loves? His confidence and comfort level were all over the place. And then there was that bit in episode 9 where his suddenly reveals to Colleen the underground room where he had been going just so he could use the fist. A room they hadn't even bothered showing (not that I recall) through the other 8 episodes?!?

The scenes at the end, with Danny and Ward on their road trip, were probably some of the best of the season.

I also wish they had done a bit more with Typhoid. They were doing great with her development, right until the end. Then they just left us hanging. Hopefully, they'll bring her into Daredevil's season 3, so they can give us the payoff. I'm wondering if the third persona will be Typhoid or Bloody Mary.

Colleen's story arc felt a bit rushed and overlooked. Kind of shoehorned in, just to fit other parts of the narrative. The stuff between her and Misty was good, though. I just wish they'd stop teasing and give us Daughters of the Dragon.

Joy got what she deserved for being an idiot.

I'm still not sure why they didn't bring in Luke Cage or Jessica Jones to help subdue Davos. That's just s~#$ty planning right there.

And then they had to go and kill One Eye. I liked that dude.

Overall, I think whoever they had running and writing the show needs to be taken off future projects.

Ward, though, has become one of my favorites. It was also nice to see Turk, however briefly.

Liberty's Edge

Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario wrote:
The thing to take away here is that they need to give him a mask for Defenders and unleash the martial arts doubles! :)

Ok, finished Season 2. They did not unleash the martial arts doubles. Even if they had, this show really stunk bad. I used it to fall asleep quicker (no joke).

Also, I've never bought Iron Fist comics, so I have no point of reference... but... that last scene...

last scene:
with the guns...
wtf???

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From Aberzombie's and Chaine's spoilers...

Spoiler:

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... In the Defenders he seemed pretty focused and in warrior mode.

I'm not going to argue in general about some inconsistent treatment of Danny, because I think you have a point to a large degree... but the version of Defenders _I_ watched, the other three Defenders at one point had to kick his ass and tie him to a chair to stop him from doing incredibly stupid things. The "I'm an impulsive douche who is Best because I am Iron Fist and Iron Fist is Best" characterization in some of S2 comes straight from that and is consistent with it. What was nice about Season 2 is he evenetually grew out of that.

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I also wish they had done a bit more with Typhoid. They were doing great with her development, right until the end. Then they just left us hanging. Hopefully, they'll bring her into Daredevil's season 3, so they can give us the payoff. I'm wondering if the third persona will be Typhoid or Bloody Mary.

Given the blood all over Mary in the Sokovia flashback, I'm going to say "Bloody" is the 3rd alter. (Of course realistically, she could have just had dissociative amnesia--without an extra "self"--about the escape from the cell, but that is ignoring that we know from comics she really does have a 3rd alter.) I'm assuming "Walker" was "Typhoid" for her use of drugs to help bring stronger opponents down--yes, that's a stretch, but it's the best I can come up with.

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Joy got what she deserved for being an idiot.

Yes, but I still respect her for trying to clean up her own mess (and doing an okay job at it).

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I'm still not sure why they didn't bring in Luke Cage or Jessica Jones to help subdue Davos. That's just s%#+ty planning right there.

Because Misty would have warned them Luke was going off the rails and would have refused to contact him (she mentions to Colleen she may even need to recruit her to take Luke down), and Jessica is fresh off of being a wanted criminal for aiding and abetting and thus probably laying low and hard to reach (they let Jessica off, IIRC, but she's probably avoiding anything that might attract police attention with a 20 foot pole--indeed, Misty probably would have nixed it too, for the same reasons). Not to mention even at the best of times Jessica's first reaction to any invitation is "No." They could have had some dialogue about that, sure, but for once it actually made total sense why they weren't contacting the other Defenders.

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And then they had to go and kill One Eye. I liked that dude.

I liked Chen too, but I'm not sure what else they could have done with his character. He seemed to have a mostly closed arc.

Quote:
with the guns...

Yes, that is from the comics, and dude, you can't get too far into a martial arts street action story before you get to using Gun Fu. It's required.

Liberty's Edge

wft:
Gun Fu? really? I'll trust that it's a thing, and shake my head like an old grumpy dude... :P The only dual gun guy I remember from Marvel comics was that Red Hood C-list villain about 10-years ago... Iron Fist is toting guns now? or was before? ugh...


I've almost finished Ozark season 2, which i opted to watch instead of IF2. Hey though, if Turk makes an appearance and is once again unlawfully accused of doing something he shouldn't be, well then I guess I can watch.

What I really want to to see is Foggy defend Turk in court.


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Pixar films have John Ratzenberger.

MCU films have Stan Lee.

Netflix/Marvel shows have Turk.

Black Dougal wrote:
What I really want to to see is Foggy defend Turk in court.

What I really want to see is Foggy or Matt (or both) go up against Jenn Walters in court.

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DeathQuaker wrote:

The trouble is, I really like everyone else on the cast. I live and breathe for Colleen and Misty and their duo ass whuppings (and they clearly respect each other while letting each other live the way they need to). Colleen and Misty is what a good superhero friendship looks like.

I like the Meachums as messed up and awful as they are. They're messed up and awful in a deeply human way I can at least comprehend and appreciate. And Joy is absolutely right in wanting to wreck Danny, he does spoil everything he touches. I'm fascinated by Mary. I like the kids. I like Mrs. Yang.

I don't care at all for Davos and his pathetic mommy issues, but his shortsighted sad loser pointlessness is a good match for Danny. Both are silly caricatures in a world of otherwise well built full-spectrum characters.

Yes to loving Colleen and Misty together, and crossing fingers that a Daughters of the Dragon spin-off could happen. Also yes to loving the Meachums in all their spectacularly messed-up-ed-ness.

It's perplexing how they can write such tertiary characters as 'BB' or Mrs. Yang or Bethany as fascinating and fully-realized characters with such limited screentime, and not manage to write Danny or Davos with a fraction of that depth.

I feel like it was directly stated in Season 1 that Danny (and Davos) had been taught to hold onto their anger and sort of push it down, rather than acknowledge it or deal with it in any sort of healthy way, perhaps by Colleen herself, and that this sort of emotional stuntedness is at play in both Danny and Davos' emotional issues. Unfortunately, this was not brought up again this season, and so both of them just kind of looked like raging buttheads with no explanation. This, IMO, could have been better explained, this season (assuming this season's writers even considered it and didn't intentionally just write Davos and Danny as explosively infantile...).


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Like I don't know if everyone else gets this impression but my impression of Kung lun is that it's a pretty crappy place to grow up.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Like I don't know if everyone else gets this impression but my impression of Kung lun is that it's a pretty crappy place to grow up.

Well, when you're essentially raising child soldiers...


Right. Thats exactly it to they can't say they have some other purpose it pretty well comes down to making the kids the best fighters they can.


Am I the only one that wonders if Mary Walker (Alice Eve) might be related to Patricia Walker (Rachel Taylor)?

The actresses even resemble each other a bit.

Agreed, this takes place after Luke S2. And probably concurrent with Misty's friend investigating Richard Fisk in New Orleans (I'm waiting for the C&D showrunner to explain how Wilson and Vanessa married at the end of DD S1, but have an adult son).

I would have loved it if Jeph Loeb surprised us, and had the snap - with next Spring's show being (surprise!) Defenders S2 featuring Misty Knight, Coleen Wing, Hellcat, Punisher - and if they have been introduced by then Blade and Moon Knight.

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Yeah. It's not the Red Room but it's still pretty awful.


Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Like I don't know if everyone else gets this impression but my impression of Kung lun is that it's a pretty crappy place to grow up.
Well, when you're essentially raising child soldiers...

very well said. This season shows kun Lun is not perfect, neither are Danny or Davos. Superheroes are not perfect people in general. In many cases they are badly flawed, and fighting crime is the best thing about them.


Set wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

The trouble is, I really like everyone else on the cast. I live and breathe for Colleen and Misty and their duo ass whuppings (and they clearly respect each other while letting each other live the way they need to). Colleen and Misty is what a good superhero friendship looks like.

I like the Meachums as messed up and awful as they are. They're messed up and awful in a deeply human way I can at least comprehend and appreciate. And Joy is absolutely right in wanting to wreck Danny, he does spoil everything he touches. I'm fascinated by Mary. I like the kids. I like Mrs. Yang.

I don't care at all for Davos and his pathetic mommy issues, but his shortsighted sad loser pointlessness is a good match for Danny. Both are silly caricatures in a world of otherwise well built full-spectrum characters.

Yes to loving Colleen and Misty together, and crossing fingers that a Daughters of the Dragon spin-off could happen. Also yes to loving the Meachums in all their spectacularly messed-up-ed-ness.

It's perplexing how they can write such tertiary characters as 'BB' or Mrs. Yang or Bethany as fascinating and fully-realized characters with such limited screentime, and not manage to write Danny or Davos with a fraction of that depth.

I feel like it was directly stated in Season 1 that Danny (and Davos) had been taught to hold onto their anger and sort of push it down, rather than acknowledge it or deal with it in any sort of healthy way, perhaps by Colleen herself, and that this sort of emotional stuntedness is at play in both Danny and Davos' emotional issues. Unfortunately, this was not brought up again this season, and so both of them just kind of looked like raging buttheads with no explanation. This, IMO, could have been better explained, this season (assuming this season's writers even considered it and didn't intentionally just write Davos and Danny as explosively infantile...).

I picked up on it pretty quickly.

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Chaine, since you're so perplexed, I strongly recommend looking up a Hong Kong movie director named "John Woo." That should provide all you need to know.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Am I the only one that wonders if Mary Walker (Alice Eve) might be related to Patricia Walker (Rachel Taylor)?

No you are not.

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:


What I really want to see is Foggy or Matt (or both) go up against Jenn Walters in court.

I'd love to see Jen Walters show up SOMEWHERE. Maybe an upcoming new lawyer in Hogarth's new firm. I will also happily have her be in the films--Bruce has gotta be around to give that blood transfusion after all.

I read somewhere that there should be a spinoff with Foggy and Misty just because of their names. :) I'd probably watch that too.

Dark Archive

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Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Like I don't know if everyone else gets this impression but my impression of Kung lun is that it's a pretty crappy place to grow up.
Well, when you're essentially raising child soldiers...

And I just remembered a plot point from the Immortal Iron Fist run was that all of the Iron Fists died by their early thirties, so it wouldn't really be that important to make sure that they were well-adjusted and built to last, since they had a pretty short shelf-life.

I wonder if that's going to carry over to the show (and even perhaps be part of why Lei Kung picked the orphan boy to be Iron Fist over his own son, knowing that whoever 'won' the Iron Fist was essentially doomed to die young?).

Or not. That makes it sound pretty sketchy, and I prefer that not *everything* be sinister, so much as perhaps just a bad tradition that worked for them for a thousand years, and they've never really had a reason to change their Iron Fist training process to something more long-term healthy.


Set wrote:


It's perplexing how they can write such tertiary characters as 'BB' or Mrs. Yang or Bethany as fascinating and fully-realized characters with such limited screentime, and not manage to write Danny or Davos with a fraction of that depth.

The first thing that occurs to me (without doing any research) is that the entire writing staff has little to no experience with buddhism outside of stereotypes. If you examine Danny and Davos as super strange consequences of stereotypes about buddhist monks... it starts to make a little bit of sense.


For having the title of immortal they don't have much of a life span.

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I think the idea is that with the Fist carried down to new carriers... the "Iron Fist" is immortal, but its individual bearers are not. I'm not sure I'm expressing this well. It's the mantle that's immortal not the people.


DeathQuaker wrote:
I think the idea is that with the Fist carried down to new carriers... the "Iron Fist" is immortal, but its individual bearers are not. I'm not sure I'm expressing this well. It's the mantle that's immortal not the people.

theres another way kf looking at this- the iron fist is no longer mortal, i.e. no longer human. They dont know how to do anything other than kill the Hand. As incredibly flawed as Danny is, he is the first Iron Fist to be really and truly human.


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The way I see it, Ki lung was LN, the Hand was LE and Danny is CN(G). So no surprise he did not fit in.


To my knowledge, Mary Walker and Trish Walker just have the same last name. There is no other relationship between them. (At least nothing that's been established in the MCU. The comics certainly don't bear it out any more than Colleen being an Iron Fist in the MCU and not having it in the comics...like EVER!)

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Certainly yes, there's nothing in canon, but I think the reason folks bring the Mary/Trish thing up is in part because Rachael Taylor and Alice Eve look a fair amount alike. (And both characters are a bit unhinged.) I want to see Mary Walker show up in Jessica Jones just to throw her for a loop (or at least create some "who's on first" type shenanigans).

The MCU has tied Colleen to Wu Ao Shi, who is the character in the comics who did the Iron Fist-chi thing into her katana. So Colleen in the comics didn't, but she is now related to a character who did. Colleen was also given chi-based powers in the comics by Danny in the comics; I reckon this is the MCU way of making it all more connected and simpler (sort of)--if she's going to get chi-powers as she did in the comic, it's actually weirder if they don't manifest in the same way.


So does that mean if the sale of Fox and the Mutants goes through, we'll get a Phoenix Force Iron Fist some day down the road?


Set wrote:
Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Like I don't know if everyone else gets this impression but my impression of Kung lun is that it's a pretty crappy place to grow up.
Well, when you're essentially raising child soldiers...

And I just remembered a plot point from the Immortal Iron Fist run was that all of the Iron Fists died by their early thirties, so it wouldn't really be that important to make sure that they were well-adjusted and built to last, since they had a pretty short shelf-life.

I wonder if that's going to carry over to the show (and even perhaps be part of why Lei Kung picked the orphan boy to be Iron Fist over his own son, knowing that whoever 'won' the Iron Fist was essentially doomed to die young?).

Or not. That makes it sound pretty sketchy, and I prefer that not *everything* be sinister, so much as perhaps just a bad tradition that worked for them for a thousand years, and they've never really had a reason to change their Iron Fist training process to something more long-term healthy.

I looked up a name from episode 10, if his story isn't changed, he's older than Steve rogers.


Yep, especially since Steve was born just after the Great Depression. Orson was born just well before the First World War.


Steve's a bit older than that. Depression ended in 1939, US entered WWII in Dec '41. (per Google search-fu) MCU puts his DOB as July 4th, 1918.


Speaking of the ages of marvel characters. Its easy enough to just have captain america get frozen for 70 years instead of 50 sure but how much longer is magneto's back story gonna work? before it put him at to old hes like what in his late 80's now?


Vid,

At least that if not older.

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I guess if the Iron Fist doesn't get killed, he can live forever/a long time? So not technically immortal, but the "Unaging Iron Fist" doesn't have that alliterative kick?

For other folks...

In the comics, you can always throw in the Infinity Serum to explain age issues away (I think they did that with Nick Fury). Or in some cases, change relationship levels--Sharon Carter went from being Peggy's much younger sister to her great niece. Magneto is a challenge indeed but I'd throw something along the lines of the infinity serum at him, or handwave his mutant genes also elongate his lifespan.

In the MCU, don't know if we have the Infinity Serum--we've had some of the weird alien stuff in Agents of SHIELD. But it's never been referenced specifically. And then we have Natasha Romanoff--whatshisface in the computer (coffee hasn't kicked in) says her DOB is 1984 (which is when Johannson was born), but she's supposed to have been an experienced KGB agent who has worked enough for them to have developed a dangerous reputation that SHIELD marks her for assassination. And the KGB along with the USSR was disbanded in 1992... when Natasha would have been 8 years old? So I think she's gotta be older than she looks and there's some sort of Black Widow serum that boosts her stamina (which also explains why she healed so quickly from that neck shot in the Winter Soldier). So maybe in the movies there are some ways to keep people younger than they look.

(I've seen some people say "Oh, well maybe the USSR had a different history in the MCU but generally they don't mess with dates of key historic events.)

Or you could always get replaced by an LMD or Skrull.


Is it Arnim Zola?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Yes, thank you! I always want to say "Zemo" and that's the OTHER Captain America baddie that starts with Z.

ETA: It occurs to me rereading the first sentence of my post (about the Iron Fist unaging) that actually may be the case, and why the Hand needed the dragon bones or whatever (I think I stopped trying to follow the logic of the plot of the Defenders halfway through). The source of the dragon has rejuvenating powers maybe.


Zemo is the one with the sword and the red mask I think. I'm going to have to think on who is another cap villain whose name starts with a Z.

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I just finished the second season this weekend. Loved Mrs. Yang's character. At some point Danny says something to the effect of how he and Mr Yang didn't always see eye to eye but they had a mutual respect for one another, and I felt Mrs. Yang took over that role of her husband very well. Extremely practical and formidable in standing up to Danny's dumb ideas but also not always immune to the persuasiveness of Colleen's charismatic optimism.

I found the Danny & Davos storyline to be the least exciting part, partly because I felt like the writing and their arc could have held so much more tension. But mostly because of what was mentioned earlier from DeathQuaker: "Danny say he's going to do something obviously stupid, then everyone tells him exactly why it's stupid and not to do it, and then he goes and does it anyway. He's a s@%@ty friend and person for never listening to the people around him or respecting their advice, and constantly putting them in danger for his insanely bad decisions, and they're idiots for still being with him, both in bothering to reason with him at all (he DOES have a right to go off and be stupid after all), exposing themselves constantly to the danger he heartlessly and foolishly exposes to them, and allowing him to constantly be disrespectful of their clearly superior wisdom." Maybe letting the Danny/Davos plot be a little monotonous allowed the Colleen/Iron Fist story to shine?

Spoiler:
When Danny first broached the idea of Colleen taking over the fist, I did not believe the show would ever actually make that happen for more than a second. I know very little about the plot lines some of the Marvel comics have gone into (and most of what I've learned so far is from Diego, Mark Moreland and this thread) and nothing about the Iron Fist comics. I had this gut punch feeling like it was going be inevitable that Danny would never go along with it. The suggestion was merely a point of emotional conflict that Danny had to wrestle for his plotline/story arc, once again relegating the leading lady to playing second fiddle to the conflicted man. So when I slowly realized that the show was actually following through and Colleen was going to be the next Iron Fist and she was probably going to get to keep it at end of the season, the whole show became a little more interesting. I felt like "Could it be that Iron Fist season 3 would be all about Colleen, with Danny conveniently off exploring so it could focus on her origin story?" I mean, it ended showing she had already learned how to make her sword glow with the fist! So cool! I had glorious visions of a season full of Colleen, Mrs Yang & Misty.
..
And then the last scene with the bar and the guys and the guns and I realized of course they weren't going to let us ignore Danny for a season and so I ended the season just a little disappointed, but still looking forward to s3.

I hope we get to see a more of the Crane sisters, I'm super curious about their role and the limits of their abilities. Was all the "magic" just from the objects and ritual. How many other kinds of rituals like this do they know?

Overall for me, season 2 was not bad: I don't regret watching it. Really looking forward to the next season of Luke Cage, especially with Misty's plot set up from Iron Fist.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Good point about the Crane Sisters, Sara Marie. At first I thought they were sort of very generic sexy-witch-ladies, but they got very interesting. They seem to cater to a very specific crowd, so it would be interesting to see their other connections and activities.

By the way, did anyone else see the end of season post credits sequence? I get Marvel's into that, but it doesn't work well on Netflix, because if you have autoplay going, it often skips the credits and moves to something else (for me, for some reason, it went back to trying to reply Season 1 even though I'd already watched it.

The scene has nothing to do with the Iron Fist, but hints at what's to come for another Defender.

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