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I finished it last night, and overall I liked it. Initially the Hand being such a big part of the Iron Fist/Kun Lun background threw me off but being mortal enemies made more sense than the H'ylthri plant people. Obviously it plugs in better with the future Defenders too. The fight scenes were fine, they did not top DD which was what I was hoping for, but they weren't terrible. I thought it had problems but I'm not sure what the critics were thinking, although I suspect some just had an axe to grind.
I finished last night and enjoyed it. I know next to nothing about Iron Fist from the comics, so whatever changes they made didn't impact me at all.
One thing I really liked, which I was surprised no one has mentioned is that Jones did a great job of portraying Danny as completely confident, knowledgeable and collected whenever the topic was martial arts, fighting, and related stuff, but as soon as he had to deal with anything else, he was channeling his inner man-child, and was essentially still the 10 year old boy who survived a plane crash. It made perfect sense to me that growing up with nothing being taught to him other than martial arts would leave his 10-year old personality still pretty dominant in other areas, whether it was fascination at the stickers he played with as a kid still be on his father's desk to awkwardness when dealing with social situations, like not having the slightest clue why the Meechums wouldn't instantly embrace him.
I know a decent amount on IF and I noticed this and liked it too.
This would be my favourite Marvel show if they had fighting scenes at least on the level of Daredevil, the main actor ruins it mostly, also the ending is ridiculous
I thought it was rushed and would have been better over a couple of episodes but it still made sense to me. The immortality curse Harold had was working against him. Earlier in the series, he plays the long game with all decisions but later, he has volatile outbursts and makes more spontaneous choices that backfire, like bringing Joy into the fold.
Based on how well the series has done, I look forward to season 2 and hopefully more Davos and more memorable fight scenes.
My list:
DD
DD2
IF
LC (I need to watch this again, I think it's probably tied with IF)
JJ
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This would be my favourite Marvel show if they had fighting scenes at least on the level of Daredevil, the main actor ruins it mostly, also the ending is ridiculousHe didn't have time to train unfortunately.
the monks trained the foreigner wrong as a joke?
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I liked it. A lot. For me, my ranking goes here....
DD2,
DD1
IF
LC
JJ.
I have to agree, I just finished it up, and I have no idea what all the naysayer's where on about. Iron Fist was great. A lot of the concerns I'd had early on, (mainly with characters seeming very wishy-washy) made a lot of sense in the big picture. The fight scenes where sometimes good and sometimes ok, but not bad. I did kind of like that it's also sort of taking the character from a more early age and he really hasn't hit his prime yet, which could lead to a plausible "better fight scenes" in the next season.
I didn't feel like the easter eggs where so blunt as in Luke Cage, and honestly, with the exception of the first half of the very last episode, I didn't really feel like there was a slow episode like in Luke Cage. In Luke Cage, it felt like an episode or two really could have been cut out and redistributed into the rest of the series.
I honestly can't say about Jessica Jones, though. I've tried to make it through the first two episodes maybe four times, and I just can't. The wife said she loved it, but would still place it at the bottom of the others, but it just isn't doing it for me at the start.
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He didn't have time to train unfortunately.the monks trained the foreigner wrong as a joke?
I was thinking maybe his "Americanness" held him back a bit, but might have also given him an edge (in the sense he might have tried an unconventional approach). It did mention that he snuck out from time to time to forsake his vows and partook in donkey meat.
:P
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I'm not one that typically rates shows but I'm surprised how many people are rating Luke Cage so low. I thought that show was phenomenally well done.
I judge a show by it's villain. Therefore DD was best. JJ a close second. IF is 3rd because Madame Gao. LC's boss fight villain was well... ouch. If they would have kept Cottonmouth and evolved him into a true badass, my opinion would be different, but he only got worse as he went, and the politician lady is just that, a dirty politician, so in the end, LC is not properly challenged as a hero, and falls short in the realms of being entertaining. I'm hoping they do the LC actor a favor with Defenders and make him more into the central, inspiring leader that Luke Cage should be, i.e. the rock at the center of the Defenders, when they all feel like going their separate ways.. and of course, make him a dad with Jessica, which will make the characters (both) much more entertaining (Jessica as a mom? now THAT's gonna be entertaining!)
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I've come to like the Netflix MCU series as an aggregate whole, especially in comparison to the CW DCU shows. I love how they're interwoven with crossover appearances by numerous secondary characters. I do wish they'd be willing to tie in to the theatrical MCU a bit more, especially in terms of fluff to help keep the timeline straight. Stuff like 'Stark World Expo 2018" posters in a subway car or on the tops of a few cabs.
Pretty sure BNW is referring to Danny's actor having insufficient time to train up to DD's standards. Given that limitation, I think he did fairly well under those constraints.
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If your lead actor only has 3 weeks to train for a role in which he has to portray an expert martial artist, then you cast the wrong actor.
I finally worked my way through the series. Finn Jones' abilities are so bad that they made him fight in darkness or with his hood up only so that his stand-in could do everything beyond the rudimentary techniques. And Jones looked sloppy even doing those. Not to mention that he is only a passable actor.
The clichéd script didn't help.
The supporting cast is good, though, but that barely elevates the series into mediocrity.
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Finn Jones got screwed by their poor scheduling. There were scenes where he was given the choreography for a fight scene an hour or two before shooting and he had minimal training time as opposed to Daredevil.
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the monks trained the foreigner wrong as a joke?This would be my favourite Marvel show if they had fighting scenes at least on the level of Daredevil, the main actor ruins it mostly, also the ending is ridiculousHe didn't have time to train unfortunately.
No, I mean that the actor had like 3 weeks to prepare.
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Finn Jones got screwed by their poor scheduling. There were scenes where he was given the choreography for a fight scene an hour or two before shooting and he had minimal training time as opposed to Daredevil.
He DID get screwed by the poor scheduling, this is true.
But if they'd cast a martial artist in the role they STILL would have done a better job at least looking like a competent martial artist. I could have believed that Danny Rand was a waaaaay above average fighter. He wasn't even good at faking it. Granted had he more time to prepare you can make almost ANYONE seem competent with the right choreographers and half decent blocking.
Marvel really dropped the ball on that aspect of this series. Which is a HUGE ball to drop considering the character. And lest everyone forgets? Daredevil can get away with those AMAZING fights because most of the time he's fighting in a MASK so it's easy for Charlie Cox's double to go in and do his thing. Even if he's fighting as Matt with his shades on, easier to double for the actor in anything farther away than a close up.
If the fighting had been overall decent (and it gets a little better as the series progresses) I'd have rated this much higher than I did.
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I'm not one that typically rates shows but I'm surprised how many people are rating Luke Cage so low. I thought that show was phenomenally well done.
I don't know about other folks but just because LC is lower on my list doesn't mean I didn't like it. I enjoyed watching it and thought it was a good show (with flaws, just like all of them). I just like other shows a bit more.
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Marvel really dropped the ball on that aspect of this series. Which is a HUGE ball to drop considering the character. And lest everyone forgets? Daredevil can get away with those AMAZING fights because most of the time he's fighting in a MASK so it's easy for Charlie Cox's double to go in and do his thing.
I agree with the above. Excellent points! I'm not a martial artist so that part wasn't a big deal to me (i.e. even his 'apparent to you all' lack of skill looked good to me... and I usually care more about the villain and the story... I liked that he tried to bring compassion to the corporate world for instance).
The thing to take away here is that they need to give him a mask for Defenders and unleash the martial arts doubles! :)
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The thing to take away here is that they need to give him a mask for Defenders and unleash the martial arts doubles! :)
In theory, Finn will have plenty of time to actually train, and won't have the 'I only had three weeks to prepare' explanation to fall back on. Defenders will be proof in the pudding, I suspect. Either he's got what it takes, and got screwed by Marvel casting him at the last second, or he's a bad fit for the role.
Then again, one doesn't necessarily preclude the other, it could be some from column A and some from column B...
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If your lead actor only has 3 weeks to train for a role in which he has to portray an expert martial artist, then you cast the wrong actor.
Not true.
Even if you picked the greatest martial artist alive... he still has to follow a scripted choreography and practice with his opponents. It's not a case of drop him off in a crowd of people and film the carnage... Even if he does the choreography himself, the others need to practice too to make it seem believable. I'm reminded of a few stories where someone missed their mark or moved too slow and Bruce Lee literally broke an arm or something on them. Finn only was shown a move once or twice and then had the camera put on him... I think he did pretty well!! I was able to find him believable as Iron Fist.
The time frame given was ridiculous for anyone. I have certainly seen MUCH worse combat fighting from characters who were supposed to be awesome before... so I'm 'content' with what we got. Finn seems to have some grace to him and I think he'll have a better showing in future movies.
Honestly, my biggest complaint was the lack of the mask. The costume in general really. Daredevil had to wait till the end to get his... I was hoping for one in the final episode here too. The film of the 40's fist was the closest we got, so the IDEA of the traditional IF garb exists in this universe... so let's get to it.
Also... The dragon. I LOVE that they didn't just 'erase' the insanely ridiculous concept of Danny fighting a Dragon to get his power... I was really afraid that would have been 'modernized' somehow!
Basically... This. Sketches from Superheroes..
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I feel its important to recognize too, that for the general themes of each of these shows, netflix has done an amazing job. The worst of them is still better than 90% of what you see on TV nowadays. Given that the source material is comic books that's no small feat.
Still kind of hoping we might get an Iron Fist outfit in Defenders. Really surprised me that we didn't, since DD did get his outfit, even if only in the last episode.
MMC,
Maybe he'll get an outfit for Heroes for Hire...
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The lack of costume is a plus. They have the necessary signature items (DD's eye covering do-rag, IF's chest brand), otherwise it unnecessarily diminishes the 'street level vibe' of the intertwined series.
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I'm with TMC on this one. There's no need to copy / paste from the comic books. I prefer the more gritty vibe portrayed so far. Daredevil is the only one so far with a real costume, and it was driven by need for body armor (although I'll grant you that the horns he added were perhaps fan service via some weakish devil ref. in the show). Even the Avengers have 'modernized' uniforms that seem to integrate them better with the regular soldiers they encounter in the movies.
I would never... ever... sacrifice comic accuracy for 'grittiness' or 'Realism'. The costume is such a core foundation of a superhero that to go with out one... diminishes that character as a superhero in my eyes.
Change it if you think you HAVE to... Which I personally don't, but whatever...
Luke can wear the yellow T-shirt... Danny can wear the mask and show off the brand a little more. Maybe dress in green a little more...
Daredevil's 'armor' was a horrible design, since they already determined that Fisk's 'armor-suits' were super armor as thin as regular cloth. Having those armor plates are visually redundant and the idea of a character like DAREDEVIL having a mask that can stop a point blank bullet to the face?!? Just... No...
What I'm hoping is that Danny is going to either A) Feel tradition bound or guilty about abandoning his Iron Fist duties and dive into the role more, complete with mask. or B)Realize that letting everyone know he's Iron Fist is detrimental to not being murdered in his sleep and try for that secret Identity... Outside of the Meachums, the hand (or at least Gao) Claire and Colleen, he really hasn't told THAT many people. I mean... Yeah, it was most of the cast, but in a city the size of new York that's still pretty secret. I'm sure he didn't tell all the reporters about his dragon-heart-punching days :D
Or Both... I'd be happy with both ^_^
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I would never... ever... sacrifice comic accuracy for 'grittiness' or 'Realism'. The costume is such a core foundation of a superhero that to go with out one... diminishes that character as a superhero in my eyes.
Change it if you think you HAVE to... Which I personally don't, but whatever...
Luke can wear the yellow T-shirt... Danny can wear the mask and show off the brand a little more. Maybe dress in green a little more...
Daredevil's 'armor' was a horrible design, since they already determined that Fisk's 'armor-suits' were super armor as thin as regular cloth. Having those armor plates are visually redundant and the idea of a character like DAREDEVIL having a mask that can stop a point blank bullet to the face?!? Just... No...
What I'm hoping is that Danny is going to either A) Feel tradition bound or guilty about abandoning his Iron Fist duties and dive into the role more, complete with mask. or B)Realize that letting everyone know he's Iron Fist is detrimental to not being murdered in his sleep and try for that secret Identity... Outside of the Meachums, the hand (or at least Gao) Claire and Colleen, he really hasn't told THAT many people. I mean... Yeah, it was most of the cast, but in a city the size of new York that's still pretty secret. I'm sure he didn't tell all the reporters about his dragon-heart-punching days :D
Or Both... I'd be happy with both ^_^
Daredevil's armor is a nod to this era in the comics.
Yellow looks like crap on film most of the time, that's why Wolverine never wore the classic suit (that and he'd look like a tropical fish)
With the tone of gritty realism, people would literally laugh their asses off every time Ironfist showed up, between the collar, plunging neckline and kung-fu slippers.
The costumes adapt. As had been pointed out earlier. Just look at Captain Amaerica in First Avenger and compare to Age of Ultron. The suit evolves into a tactical combat suit that still maintains the symbolism without looking like a clown.
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Also... The dragon. I LOVE that they didn't just 'erase' the insanely ridiculous concept of Danny fighting a Dragon to get his power... I was really afraid that would have been 'modernized' somehow!
Agreed. They didn't want to spend a ton of money on a CGI dragon, so they just didn't show it, instead of removing it from his origin story, which was fine for me. I don't need to see the dragon, since I never actually did in the comics anyway (having read Iron Fist, but never actually read his origin story...).
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If your lead actor only has 3 weeks to train for a role in which he has to portray an expert martial artist, then you cast the wrong actor.Not true.
Even if you picked the greatest martial artist alive... he still has to follow a scripted choreography and practice with his opponents. It's not a case of drop him off in a crowd of people and film the carnage... Even if he does the choreography himself, the others need to practice too to make it seem believable. I'm reminded of a few stories where someone missed their mark or moved too slow and Bruce Lee literally broke an arm or something on them. Finn only was shown a move once or twice and then had the camera put on him... I think he did pretty well!! I was able to find him believable as Iron Fist.
I didn't. And yes, casting an actor with no prior knowledge in martial arts was a mistake. Apparently, it is usual in Hong Kong martial arts cinema to give the actors their choreography only shortly before the takes, because they won't have to memorise too many movements. But you can only do that if the people involved know what they are doing. Finn Jones did not.
That's not his fault, though, but the studio's that didn't give him enough time. Compare that to Tony Leung who had never trained in a martial art before taking on the role of Ip Man in The Grandmaster, but was given enough time to prepare. They even postponed production because Leung broke is arm in training. In the end, Leung was very convincing.
I would never... ever... sacrifice comic accuracy for 'grittiness' or 'Realism'. The costume is such a core foundation of a superhero that to go with out one... diminishes that character as a superhero in my eyes.
Change it if you think you HAVE to... Which I personally don't, but whatever...
Luke can wear the yellow T-shirt... Danny can wear the mask and show off the brand a little more. Maybe dress in green a little more...
Daredevil's 'armor' was a horrible design, since they already determined that Fisk's 'armor-suits' were super armor as thin as regular cloth. Having those armor plates are visually redundant and the idea of a character like DAREDEVIL having a mask that can stop a point blank bullet to the face?!? Just... No...
What I'm hoping is that Danny is going to either A) Feel tradition bound or guilty about abandoning his Iron Fist duties and dive into the role more, complete with mask. or B)Realize that letting everyone know he's Iron Fist is detrimental to not being murdered in his sleep and try for that secret Identity... Outside of the Meachums, the hand (or at least Gao) Claire and Colleen, he really hasn't told THAT many people. I mean... Yeah, it was most of the cast, but in a city the size of new York that's still pretty secret. I'm sure he didn't tell all the reporters about his dragon-heart-punching days :D
Or Both... I'd be happy with both ^_^
Daredevil's armor is a nod to this era in the comics.
THAT era should never be referenced. It's generally considered one of the worst eras of his career.
I'm not one that typically rates shows but I'm surprised how many people are rating Luke Cage so low. I thought that show was phenomenally well done.
Same. I'm also surprised people rate JJ so low and DD2 so high.
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I thought Luke Cage was great...
...though killing off Mahershala Ali's character was a huge mistake; the back half of the season definitely suffered for it.
And I thought it got better after that.
LOL. Well, that's the beauty of opinions...there is no "correct" one. :)
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My Series Ranks:
JJ
LC
DD1
DD2
IF
Iron Fist had sadly lackluster fight choreography and an uneven lead performance. The Meachum's emotional journey ended up being stronger than Danny's, (though I do not buy that end scene with Davos and Joy, wtf?). The series was best when showcasing Colleen, as well as Danny's innocence and terrible business sense. Also, a surprisingly strong handling of Davos.
Eh most scenes with Ms. Wing was perf.
I'm not one that typically rates shows but I'm surprised how many people are rating Luke Cage so low. I thought that show was phenomenally well done.Same. I'm also surprised people rate JJ so low and DD2 so high.
I think its likely the scale rather than being a 1-10 is more like a 5 or 6 to 10 compared to tv in general for most of us. Like if everything is hovering around an 8 rankings will be rankings but the difference is minimal.
I think its likely the scale rather than being a 1-10 is more like a 5 or 6 to 10 compared to tv in general for most of us. Like if everything is hovering around an 8 rankings will be rankings but the difference is minimal.I'm not one that typically rates shows but I'm surprised how many people are rating Luke Cage so low. I thought that show was phenomenally well done.Same. I'm also surprised people rate JJ so low and DD2 so high.
I truly did find JJ to be lousy... but I agree with this in general. Especially concerning LC. Putting that one 4th out of 5 isn't really THAT bad when I just REALLY liked the first three on the list. Even at it worst, LC would probably be in the top 10 I've seen on Netflix that year.
Loved JJ favorite one of them all. still I have liked them all so far and will continue to watch Netflix marvel U.
Cape,
I'm just slightly miffed that Typhoid Mary is coming in as the villain instead of say, Gorgon.
Well if nothing else, based on Luke Cage Season 2 appearance, if that's any to go by, it should be much better.
Indeed.
Just finished EP1, the fighting is significantly improved. Not wowed by it, by any means, but Finn Jones no longer looks slow and uncoordinated. He's on par with the martial arts of any other Marvel lead.
The acting hasn't changed any.
Interested freehold is interested
Bjorn,
That's because he's not the greatest. Shang Chi is.