Marvel's Iron Fist


Television

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DeathQuaker wrote:

Good point about the Crane Sisters, Sara Marie. At first I thought they were sort of very generic sexy-witch-ladies, but they got very interesting. They seem to cater to a very specific crowd, so it would be interesting to see their other connections and activities.

By the way, did anyone else see the end of season post credits sequence? I get Marvel's into that, but it doesn't work well on Netflix, because if you have autoplay going, it often skips the credits and moves to something else (for me, for some reason, it went back to trying to reply Season 1 even though I'd already watched it.

The scene has nothing to do with the Iron Fist, but hints at what's to come for another Defender.

damn. I missed it. Thanks DQ.


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We'll see what Matt's going to do once he wakes up from having a building fall on him...

Also while I get that Sara might be miffed about the whole "Danny gets powers again" I'm less convinced he has it and more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

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Thomas Seitz wrote:
... more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

Whoa, hadn't even thought about that.


DeathQuaker wrote:


For other folks...

In the comics, you can always throw in the Infinity Serum to explain age issues away (I think they did that with Nick Fury). Or in some cases, change relationship levels--Sharon Carter went from being Peggy's much younger sister to her great niece. Magneto is a challenge indeed but I'd throw something along the lines of the infinity serum at him, or handwave his mutant genes also elongate his lifespan.

In the MCU, don't know if we have the Infinity Serum--we've had some of the weird alien stuff in Agents of SHIELD. But it's never been referenced specifically. And then we have Natasha Romanoff--whatshisface in the computer (coffee hasn't kicked in) says her DOB is 1984 (which is when Johannson was born), but she's supposed to have been an experienced KGB agent who has worked enough for them to have developed a dangerous reputation that SHIELD marks her for assassination. And the KGB along with the USSR was disbanded in 1992... when Natasha would have been 8 years old? So I think she's gotta be older than she looks and there's some sort of Black Widow serum that boosts her stamina (which also explains why she healed so quickly from that neck shot in the Winter Soldier). So maybe in the movies there are some ways to keep people younger than they look.

(I've seen some people say "Oh, well maybe the USSR had a different history in the MCU but generally they don't mess with dates of key historic events.)

KGB's probably just a slip for Russian Intelligence. It's not really like much changed internally when the Soviet Union broke up. Especially if the program she was in was a continuation of a KGB one. Hell, if the Red Room recruited early enough, she could have even been there when it was still officially KGB.

I don't recall the exact scene well enough to know how clearly it was stated that she'd earned her reputation in the KGB.

I'd really rather not start pushing unaging powers on people just to cover continuity glitches. Bad enough in the comics, even if they really only do that with a couple of characters with specific ties to WWII that I can think of - Fury and Magneto, being the big ones.
Nearly every one else just floats and if their backstory used to involve one war, it's easy enough to update to another.

Kind of wish they hadn't tied the MCU down to real time. It already shows signs of breaking and it would be much cleaner to treat any dates as topical references.

Liberty's Edge

Thomas Seitz wrote:

We'll see what Matt's going to do once he wakes up from having a building fall on him...

Also while I get that Sara might be miffed about the whole "Danny gets powers again" I'm less convinced he has it and more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

He has it.


All the magic going on in NYC for an indeterminate amount of time, presumably months, and Doctor Strange never got involved?

Vidmaster7 wrote:
Speaking of the ages of marvel characters. Its easy enough to just have captain america get frozen for 70 years instead of 50 sure but how much longer is magneto's back story gonna work? before it put him at to old hes like what in his late 80's now?

If I had to reboot him - say for the MCU - I'd say he was a political prisoner of a Soviet satellite nation. Say, Latveria, home of his tribe the Wundagore? (Yes, I'm ignoring the he was always a Jew retcon).


Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

We'll see what Matt's going to do once he wakes up from having a building fall on him...

Also while I get that Sara might be miffed about the whole "Danny gets powers again" I'm less convinced he has it and more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

He has it.

I'd like some evidence for that.

Sara,

Glad I gave you something else to think about.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:

All the magic going on in NYC for an indeterminate amount of time, presumably months, and Doctor Strange never got involved?

Vidmaster7 wrote:
Speaking of the ages of marvel characters. Its easy enough to just have captain america get frozen for 70 years instead of 50 sure but how much longer is magneto's back story gonna work? before it put him at to old hes like what in his late 80's now?

If I had to reboot him - say for the MCU - I'd say he was a political prisoner of a Soviet satellite nation. Say, Latveria, home of his tribe the Wundagore? (Yes, I'm ignoring the he was always a Jew retcon).

Well I'm trying to remember when Dr. strange came out in relation to avengers AOU. because in the netflix they are just getting to sokovia so dr strange may not have been around doing his thing yet.


Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

We'll see what Matt's going to do once he wakes up from having a building fall on him...

Also while I get that Sara might be miffed about the whole "Danny gets powers again" I'm less convinced he has it and more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

He has it.

I think that should be clarified with a question.

Are you saying he can do that with any pair of guns? Or only that specific set of guns?

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

Randomly started thinking in the car this morning how heartbreaking it was that Walker wanted to move to the desert in Arizona so she could keep Mary repressed. I didn't pick up on that in the show and was a little confused at why Mary thought moving to the middle of know where would kill/hide her forever.

Towards the beginning of the Mary story arc I was kind of annoyed by it. Each time she was on screen it felt like a jarring interruption to the rest of the story. By the end though, I came around and liked the dynamic between her and Joy. Such an odd relationship. I'm wondering if she is sticking around with Joy out of fear of the third or curiosity or something else. Does she need someone who can tell when its not Mary/Walker so they could do one of the triggers to bring Mary//Walker back? Is she looking for someone who would either interact with the third and help the three of them understand what happened in Sokovia. Or maybe as protection if the third shows up someone like Joy could make sure she doesn't get Mary/Walker into trouble? There's a lot of questions to dive into for another season and I'm interested as long as it relates back to the Iron Fist story line. Maybe the Third is the s3 antagonist and Joy takes on the role of trying to convince the police to bring them in alive rather than using deadly force.

Dark Archive

Sara Marie wrote:
Randomly started thinking in the car this morning how heartbreaking it was that Walker wanted to move to the desert in Arizona so she could keep Mary repressed. I didn't pick up on that in the show and was a little confused at why Mary thought moving to the middle of know where would kill/hide her forever.

Cold air and the sound of rain / running water were triggers that brought out Mary, so Walker seemed to think that by moving to a hot climate where it never rained might help her stay dominant, IIRC.

But yeah, that was kind of freaky. Can you imagine trying to avoid the sound of running water? Yikes. Washing yourself with a sponge (since a shower is out of the question) would be just one of many adjustments she'd have to make.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Sara Marie wrote:
Randomly started thinking in the car this morning how heartbreaking it was that Walker wanted to move to the desert in Arizona so she could keep Mary repressed. I didn't pick up on that in the show and was a little confused at why Mary thought moving to the middle of know where would kill/hide her forever.

What was interesting to me was when Mary recorded the message to Walker she said that it was okay if Walker wanted to move -- like she was willing somewhat to let go, and likewise Walker was touched/affected by Mary thanking her--even if that also led to the realization of a possible third alter, Mary also mentions Walker "protecting her in Green Bay" which Walker didn't deny, so presumably back home in Wisconsin Mary/Walker also went through some kind of trouble/trauma that her more devoted soldier side helped her get out of.

Quote:
Towards the beginning of the Mary story arc I was kind of annoyed by it. Each time she was on screen it felt like a jarring interruption to the rest of the story. By the end though, I came around and liked the dynamic between her and Joy. Such an odd relationship. I'm wondering if she is sticking around with Joy out of fear of the third or curiosity or something else. Does she need someone who can tell when its not Mary/Walker so they could do one of the triggers to bring Mary//Walker back? Is she looking for someone who would either interact with the third and help the three of them understand what happened in Sokovia. Or maybe as protection if the third shows up someone like Joy could make sure she doesn't get Mary/Walker into trouble? There's a lot of questions to dive into for another season and I'm interested as long as it relates back to the Iron Fist story line. Maybe the Third is the s3 antagonist and Joy takes on the role of trying to convince the police to bring them in alive rather than using deadly force.

It is hard to tell where that's going, and it doesn't help that that final scene between them felt oddly forced/awkward (moreso than what Mary makes things).

A few stray thoughts:
- Joy is the one who says to Mary, "Walker is protecting you," or something to that effect, and that clearly rings a bell to Mary and she seems to accept this as truth. Mary then points it out to Walker and that shakes Walker up a bit. So Walker, consciously or subconsciously, knows Joy has a good READ on both her known personas and that may helpful to her.
- Joy has contacts and financial resources that might help Walker get better? I need to rewatch the scene, but she seems to want help identifying the 3rd alter and figuring out what triggers her. She specifically wants Joy's assistance both because Joy already can read her but also that she has the means to provide real help.
- Walker would rather recruit Joy for help than anyone else due to her tendency to not want to make connections/make people forgot they dealt with her. Better a known quantity than have to introduce herself to someone new. I think Joy's pragmatic nature also comes into it--Joy will do what's needed to resolve whatever issues Walker has and then get on with her life, and won't try to do anything foolish out of sentiment or ambition.

I think I'm just rewording what you're asking in different ways but yeah.

I'm curious as to Walker is going to remain within Iron Fist or transfer over to another show (IIRC she was in a lot of Daredevil comics, so I wander if she is going to show up in that show).


Irontruth wrote:
Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

We'll see what Matt's going to do once he wakes up from having a building fall on him...

Also while I get that Sara might be miffed about the whole "Danny gets powers again" I'm less convinced he has it and more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

He has it.

I think that should be clarified with a question.

Are you saying he can do that with any pair of guns? Or only that specific set of guns?

Iron,

I'm suggesting those guns specifically can do that, not that Danny can do. There's nothing I saw that showed me he still had access to Iron Fist chi powers.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Chi seems to be color coded per individual (Danny yellow, Davos red, Colleen white), and the guns were glowing yellow, which makes me think it was Danny’s chi.

So while I’d buy that Danny needs those specific guns to do it, I’m not so sure that he’s just firing pre-charged bullets.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

We'll see what Matt's going to do once he wakes up from having a building fall on him...

Also while I get that Sara might be miffed about the whole "Danny gets powers again" I'm less convinced he has it and more likely the guns themselves hold chi powered bullets.

He has it.

I think that should be clarified with a question.

Are you saying he can do that with any pair of guns? Or only that specific set of guns?

Iron,

I'm suggesting those guns specifically can do that, not that Danny can do. There's nothing I saw that showed me he still had access to Iron Fist chi powers.

I'm guessing it's probably 50/50 (or 70/30). Chi is a living life force thing, so a living thing needs to power the guns. My guess would be that you don't need to be THE Iron Fist in order to use the guns, but you need that level of training in order to focus your chi into the guns (which are the tool that turns your chi into bullets).


There's something about the way we JUST saw Colleen use her fist to power up her sword... (Which as much as I hate the idea of her taking the fist, THAT was the coolest thing EVER!!!!)... Then the VERY next scene we Danny's fists glowing and him shooting the guns.

I DO think those guns are special in some way... the gangsters seemed pretty intent on getting them back after all... but I think if it was JUST the guns, then either Danny's hands wouldn't be glowing, or they wouldn't have JUST shown us that the fist can power weapons...

Just as far as story beats go, it just sort of screamed.... YEAH, we gave her the power... but LOOK, a year later, Danny has it back!! Sooooo don't go crazy on the internet please!!!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I have seen the theory that they are Orson Randall's guns (he IIRC is the original Iron Fist master of gun fu) and carry some resonance of Iron Fistyness within them, so Danny, knowing how to channel Iron Fisty chi, can use Iron Fisty powers with the guns. (So what Irontruth said.)

Or maybe he just found another dragon to punch. Maybe it was that old lady on Captain Marvel's subway train.


DeathQuaker wrote:

I have seen the theory that they are Orson Randall's guns (he IIRC is the original Iron Fist master of gun fu) and carry some resonance of Iron Fistyness within them, so Danny, knowing how to channel Iron Fisty chi, can use Iron Fisty powers with the guns. (So what Irontruth said.)

Or maybe he just found another dragon to punch. Maybe it was that old lady on Captain Marvel's subway train.

LOOOOOOL


I'm positive, DQ, those are indeed the guns of Orson Randall, the Iron Fist of the 1900s. I don't believe though that Danny has Iron Fist power but I will agree, because of training, he can use them to do that more so than some guy with no training.

As for the punching old ladies that are actually Skrulls, I do not believe we'll see any Skrulls on Iron Fist.

Undead Ninjas, sure, just not Skrulls.


But I will see Turk right?

Plan on binging this weekend.


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Prowler really should have gone to Turk instead of Shocker. His ice cream wouldn't have melted while he was webbed to the trunk.


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B Dougal,

Yes Turk does make a cameo.


Well, I finished. It wasn't as bad as IF1, but still not as good as the other marvel shows. I found myself bored in the early episodes, thankfully once the plot started moving I got into it.

Just a thought, does the heart of the dragon corrupt the soul? Encourages more use of violence to solve problems. Would Davo's start collecting gold and wanting to sleep on it?


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Will he start asking people for tree fiddy? ... wait...


Dougal,

As far I know, Shou-Lao, the Undying, doesn't have anything specific D&D dragon traits...at least that I'm aware of. Mostly I think that his power can overwhelm those that aren't ready to balance themselves against his awesome power.

Also, I'm not paying the monster tree fiddy.


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Shou-Lao draws on eastern dragon mythology, not western. They're very different. Or at least a 70s western pop culture underderstanding of them.


True. But it seems like some of the penchant that dragons have for shiny baubles is still in this version...


phantom1592 wrote:
Colleen use her fist to power up her sword... (Which as much as I hate the idea of her taking the fist, THAT was the coolest thing EVER!!!!)

When they first discussed it on the show, I thought it was too cool, and that the show's writers would never do something so cool as give the IF to Colleen. I was impressed that they actually did it. Also, all the scenes where Colleen debates her (potential) relationship to the IF felt way more human than anything Danny or Davos ever said.


Yeah I feel like both Danny and Davos can't be to relatable mostly just because of where and how they were raised. That's why I give Danny's character a lot of slack personality wise. Dude grew up in a abusive monastery and had to practically beat his only friends to death.

Liberty's Edge

I did'nt see this coming.

I was very curious what they would have done with season 3, too.


Yeah I'm a bit upset about that. I wanted to see where they were going. I guess we will still see him in other defenders shows?


I doubt this.

Sovereign Court

Im hoping this isnt the beginning of the end. I was stoked for luke cage s2 and was disappointed. Couldnt even finish IF s1. seems its been awhile since they hit a home run. Maybe DDs3 brings it back?


This may be less of a voluntary move by Netflix and more one forced on them by necessity: the Netflix Marvel shows are commissioned by Disney and made by ABC. With Disney's home-streaming service launching in about one year's time it is highly improbable that Disney will allow a rival streaming service to make shows using its characters any more.

On that basis, we'll get DAREDEVIL Season 3, PUNISHER Season 2 and JESSICA JONES Season 3, as they've all finished filming. They clearly weren't going to fit in both LUKE CAGE and IRON FIST Season 3 before the hammer comes down at the end of next year, so I wouldn't be surprised if we either got confirmation of a LUKE CAGE Season 3 or news that's being cancelled as well and we get either a DEFENDERS Season 2 or a one-off HEROES FOR HIRE or DAUGHTERS OF THE DRAGON show to round things off next summer.


I'm not thrilled by this...but we'll see what happens in 2019 and beyond...


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Aha.

The Netflix/Marvel deal apparently allows for Disney/ABC to continue making up to 5 MCU shows (with occasional DEFENDERS team-ups) for Netflix indefinitely, but when they end they can't be replaced. THE PUNISHER was added to the roster later on, but with the Disney streaming service coming up Disney did not want to extend the contract to 6 shows indefinitely. So, in effect, the decision to carry on with THE PUNISHER killed IRON FIST.

I would have waited to see what ratings for S2 of THE PUNISHER are like before shutting down IRON FIST, but oh well. Unfortunately the 5-show limit and Disney's refusal to allow new shows to be added (which they can now make and air themselves) means that HEROES FOR HIRE/DAUGHTERS OF THE DRAGON can't happen formally. They can happen informally, of course, by effectively turning LUKE CAGE into such a show (although LUKE CAGE hasn't been renewed yet either).


So just spit balling but if they made one show called defenders and then just rotated which character it focused on they could just use all of there characters indefinitely?


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All I know is Season 2 of the Punisher had better have more Metallica in the background.


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I'm hoping Luke Cage follows suit and they just join up for a new Heroes for Hire series. I always liked that version of Danny, hope he fits in other places now.


Yeah I think the way to go is just to have one show that alternates characters around like some of the older tv shows used to do where they emphasize a character at a time. Would probably help with pacing.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Werthead wrote:

Aha.

The Netflix/Marvel deal apparently allows for Disney/ABC to continue making up to 5 MCU shows (with occasional DEFENDERS team-ups) for Netflix indefinitely, but when they end they can't be replaced. THE PUNISHER was added to the roster later on, but with the Disney streaming service coming up Disney did not want to extend the contract to 6 shows indefinitely. So, in effect, the decision to carry on with THE PUNISHER killed IRON FIST.

That f$%&ing sucks because I so very do not care about the Punisher.

(If you like the show, cool. But I feel like Punisher has a more limited potential. I could be wrong.)

Quote:
I would have waited to see what ratings for S2 of THE PUNISHER are like before shutting down IRON FIST, but oh well. Unfortunately the 5-show limit and Disney's refusal to allow new shows to be added (which they can now make and air themselves) means that HEROES FOR HIRE/DAUGHTERS OF THE DRAGON can't happen formally. They can happen informally, of course, by effectively turning LUKE CAGE into such a show (although LUKE CAGE hasn't been renewed yet either).

They don't need it to be Luke Cage, they could do it as the Defenders (which Misty and Colleen had an active role in). The Defenders was a rotating roster in the comics, no reason it can't be on Netflix.

I know Defenders 2 isn't actively in the works, but the possibility remains open at least.

I wonder if Netflix stops making a show, does Marvel have the right to repossess the IP and put it on Disney's new channel?

The cancellation is disappointing to say the least. I was very, very meh on Season 1 and ended up really liking season 2. Whereas say, I adored JJ season 1, and finished season 2 largely unhappy with it. As much as I like Jessica Jones as a character, the Iron Fist has far more potential as a series, because JJ they seem to not want to ever let truly grow or develop--their show runners just want to leave her a constant victim and that gets tiring. Which is to say, I liked S1 because she went through a process coping with her trauma and ultimately came out on top, but S2 just had her run in circles. The writers don't know what to do with Jessica unless she's constantly tragic--but the Defenders, flawed a show as it was, showed she could be an interesting character without that. In fact I'd kind of rather see JJ cancelled and have her be a character in the other shows. Though who knows, S3 may be great.

Iron Fist, god help me, in Season 2,showed it know how to bring characters through an arc and make people care about what happened next.


Werthead wrote:

Aha.

The Netflix/Marvel deal apparently allows for Disney/ABC to continue making up to 5 MCU shows (with occasional DEFENDERS team-ups) for Netflix indefinitely, but when they end they can't be replaced. THE PUNISHER was added to the roster later on, but with the Disney streaming service coming up Disney did not want to extend the contract to 6 shows indefinitely. So, in effect, the decision to carry on with THE PUNISHER killed IRON FIST.

I would have waited to see what ratings for S2 of THE PUNISHER are like before shutting down IRON FIST, but oh well. Unfortunately the 5-show limit and Disney's refusal to allow new shows to be added (which they can now make and air themselves) means that HEROES FOR HIRE/DAUGHTERS OF THE DRAGON can't happen formally. They can happen informally, of course, by effectively turning LUKE CAGE into such a show (although LUKE CAGE hasn't been renewed yet either).

Thanks for the explanation Werthead. Much appreciated. I'm ok with Luke Cage / Iron Fist getting the ax so that other Netflix shows can live on or be created. If I'd have my way I'd keep Daredevil, Defenders, then create three new shows. Defenders could have Luke, Jessica and Danny plus all their merry friends in order to deliver an action-packed show. On their own, these three heroes make for very LONG shows to watch (with long boring periods of silence which leads to me falling asleep and waking up two shows later... grr....)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

The official statement from Marvel did say "the Immortal Iron Fist will live on" so hopefully they have plans for him (and hopefully, and more importantly to me personally, Colleen, Mary, and the Meechums) to at least show up elsewhere.


Sweet Christmas! Luke Cage has been cancelled as well.


That is not a sweet Christmas sir not sweet at all.


Remember, Luke uses that phrase instead of swearing.


I know I was being facetious.


Ah, sorry. My bad.

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