Stinking Cloud from Alchemist Stinking Bomb, how many saves and when?

Rules Questions

The alchemist discovery stinking bomb has me stumped. It says it creates a stinking cloud that lasts a single round. I have a few things confusing me.

1) I pop a stink bomb on someone that then creates a cloud. Nowhere in the spell does it say they need to roll a save right away. Should they have to save then and there?

2) Related to the above, and I've seen some discussion of this with regards to cloudkill, do people need to make a save if they enter the cloud? Can they run right through it and not need to save? If they need to save in 2), they should have to save in 1), imo.

3) It says if they stay in the cloud, and passed their first save (if there even was one before this, who knows?) they then save on the casters turn. But the cloud is gone on the casters turn, whoosh, 1-round cloud, huzzah! No need to make a save on a cloud that's gone!

So... if neither 1 or 2 are possible, and 3 is not possible either, this is a stinking cloud that cannot possibly have any effect on anybody.

aaaand 4) At level 8, alchemist bombing goes nuts. Say they toss 4 stinking bombs at a target in a row. Does the target make a new save for every attempted stinking? This is assuming 1) is for true.

Thanks in advance,
frustrated person.

1) should have a save, because the spell it replicates requires a save upon exposure.
2)generally speaking iuf they enter the cloud, they are exposed, so they have to save. but its only once per round that they are exposed.

3) The bomb wording limits the spell's wording. So they save when the bomb explodes ,or if they run into it before the alchemist' next turn.
So they do not need to make a save on the alchemist' turn because the bomb limits the effect.

4) It's a poison effect. So, They save for each bomb, until they are poisoned, once they are poisoned it won't stack. as per poison rules.
but if they succed they still have to save for the new exposure the next bomb.

I guess its the wording of "Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn" that makes me think a creature inside the cloud should be penalized further.

If they pass their first initial save from either bomb exposure,or running into the cloud, it sounds like they can just hang out in the cloud at the end of their turn and suffer no chance of ill effects occurring. The cloud ends before the casters turn ends, but they chose to remain in the cloud, making me think they should roll the save for doing that, even if the cloud has dissipated by then.

It feels meta for a person to keep their creature inside a stinking cloud because they know it will dissipate in a round, because they know they won't have to make another save.

basicaly, yeah, they make the initial save, they can move around all they want in that one round. Its overcoming the poison, or holding their breath; depending on what you wish to fluff it by.

That line you quote is from the spell, but it negated by the bomb's limitation of disappearing in one ful round.
Its a specific alters general situation.

The player is being abit meta if they are using outside knowledge that the bomb disappates quickly. Though after the first sight of bomb (or if they know about alchemists in general) it woudlnt' be meta for them to know.

So really, depends if the character knows about alchemist, or seen before, or you could have them make a check to see how long they think it lasts.

Though in general, as it is far less magical than spells (to the world viewpoint) so folks would be less worried about it. Thematically

That is how i see it anyway.
Maybe someone far more knowledgable will pop in

Hey, your input is helpful. I didn't think about how creatures respond if they were familiar with alchemists or not.
But the bomb is supposed to replicate the stinking bomb spell, a 1-round version of it, which includes that snippet of if they stay in the cloud. Alchemist bombs are definitely magical, filled with essences and junk. I'm going the super RAW interpretation mode. It's given me headaches and one fight with a guy.

The way I looked at it, if you cut away all other parts of that spell and left the one sentence: if after making their first save they stay in the zone , they need to make another save on the casters turn. Even if that zone dissipates, it would affect all people that chose to stay in that zone at the end of their turn.

Cool beans. 'Slong as I'm not being more of a bother than help haha.


Yeah they are supernatural, but they are not the spell. They simply use the spell mechanics, with any imposed deficiet in the wording of the discovery (in this case the 1 round effect). The spell is the general, the discovery is the specific that overwrites details.

lets take the spell. Say I get it cast on me. I roll my save, i make it.
I know my partner will dispell it (as we have adventured together for years) so I hold my ground, and ready action "shoot the caster once I can see him"
i.e. I am staying in the cloud of my own choice. round 2, My caster friend's turn comes up next, he dispels it. I then act because of my readied action and shoot the enemy caster. Then its the enemy's turn.
I do not save again, because the effect that forced it is now gone. Therefore I dont' need to make another save, as there is no "exposure" as per the game's rules.
The effect ended so it does not have any affect.

A scenario worth mentioning but isn't really related to this is, say they failed the dispell but I still saw the caster and I shoot and kill the caster. They are dead but their turn still techicncally comes up on the inititive list. At that point, I now have to save, despite the fact they're dead. Because the effect still exists.

Yeah, the snippet still exists, but the fact it doesn't last one round effectively negates it.

"Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn"
The after initital exposure saves, specifically require: the cloud to exist, and a new round to come up.
Each round.. means each time the alchemist turn comes up.

Remember, "rounds" are all done in 6 seconds, all at once. So you throw the bomb the guy is already moving, or just finished moving (depends on if your inititive is higher or not)
So he's still moving during the normal exposure. there simply is never a "second round" for them to have to deal with. The cloud disappears once the one round ends (i.e. as soon as the inititive of the alchemist comes up)
The only time it would apply, Would be if somehow some effect made the alchemist slower, and the enemy now moved first (round1: alchemist throws bomb (they roll save) their turn happens, round 2 they somehow go before the alchemist while still being in the cloud. then they would have to save again). Though I can not think of any effect that does that in the situation we're talking about (atm I can only think of ready actions that change inititive. but that would be difficult to use in this situation.)
"Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn"

You can not cut away the rest of the stuff; it is one complete sentence. That line specifically requires a new turn for that save. Which simply does not happen.
They can stay in the zone all they want, they were already exposed for that instance. the cloud disappates before a new exposure can be done. AS per RAW there is nothing for them to be exposed to.
That Zone, does not exist long enough to retrigger the effect. As it is a poison effect and it can only be done once per "exposure" and the spell only "exposes" agianst a person once per round.

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