I'm building a character for 12th level with starting attributes of 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 12 before any racial adjustments. I would like for him to be an "assassin" type of character, along the lines of Artemis Entreri or the various shadowy master swordsmen fantasy trope. I see him wearing little-to-no armor and relying primarily on agility and parrying enemy strikes as his main form of defense.
If I could make a viable build for it, I would ideally like for him to use an estoc as his weapon but I'm open to most options as long as they fit the theme of a lone assassin who's very hard to hit and mows through his enemies with precision and deadly strikes. I would love to go into Shadow Dancer with him if there is a viable build for it.
Hybrid classes are not allowed, so I'm leaning towards a Daring Champion Cavalier, possibly multiclassing with Unchained Rogue for dex-to-damage? I'm unsure of what archetypes to go with for Rogue but Scout looks nice. If at all possible, I would love to work in the Dimensional feats for even more mystical assassin flavor.
I have not selected a race yet, but I've had my eye on Kasatha for a long time since I've never had a chance to play one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would cross a martial class with Ninja or regular Rogue to get Vanishing Trick (regular Rogue can get a Ki Pool with the talent of that name) to use Vanish at will with a swift-action.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually, two questions:
1. Are you allowed to use the Weaponmaster's Handbook?
2. Do you object to characters that use major spellcasting? Because the opportunity to create a level 12 Eldritch Knight shadow-swordsman is pretty damn sweet. You can get Dimensional Dervish by 13 if you want, and there's also the "Shift" power of the Teleportation School. Plus, of course, all the shadowy illusion magic you could possibly want.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Daring Champion Chevalier is the class that fits your plan best.
And with these stats you can even go STR-based, so no need to multiclass with UNrogue. Only a splash of ShadowDancer looks interesting for Hide in plain Sight.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Badbird I'd be completely open to that idea, as long as he is a very efficient swordsman and hard to hit.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
For a swordsman Eldritch Knight that focuses on using spells to improve melee power, I would actually go with a Wizard using the Spell Sage archetype. Spell Sage can cast spells from the Bard, Cleric and Druid lists at the cost of the spell taking a lot longer to cast. You can use the Preferred Spell feat to pick up Divine Favor as a 'regular' spell since it's a huge combat buff, and slow-cast things like Magic Vestment and Barkskin. Spell Sage also gets the ability to cast a couple spells a day at +4 caster level, which is perfect for Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment since they last all day.
To go Eldritch Knight, I would use one level of Urban Barbarian for Controlled Rage, and then take Extra Rage a couple times so you've got plenty of rounds/day. Then you can start up Controlled Rage right when you start fighting to improve your melee even more. You can also use a Furious weapon with Controlled Rage that stacks your weapon enchantment even higher.
I'll post a build later, but the general idea would be an "eldritch swordsman" 12 going into melee with Divine Power (+5 attack and damage), Controlled Rage (+4DEX), and level 16 Greater Magic Weapon on a Furious weapon (weapon is +6 when raging). Of course, there's also things like Shield, Blade Tutor Spirit, Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door and so on, and "tricks" like using the Contingency spell with Bard's Escape to instantly escape if badly hurt.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That sounds like an awesome character build. I look forward to seeing what you come up with for it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unchained Rogue 4/Fighter 8
Feats:
TWF chain
Piranha Strike
Improved Crit
Weapon Focus and Specialization
I've used this build, but mine was Mutagen Warrior variant. It will out DPR most any other fighter type and has skills to back it's purpose.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
DEX-to-damage is folly with stats so high.
Here's a Shadow Dancer build:
Male Human fighter 5 / shadowdancer 3 Archetypes Lore Warden,
None Medium humanoid (human)
Init +7, Senses darkvision (90 ft.); Perception +12
=================================================
DEFENSE
=================================================
AC 25, touch 19, flat-footed 25 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +7 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 natural)
Combat Expertise w/Swordplay Style AC 28, touch 21, flat-footed 26 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +7 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 natural, +2 combat expertise, +1 shield)
hp 65 ((5d10)+(3d8)+16)
Fort +9, Ref +12, Will +6
Defensive Abilities hide in plain sight, uncanny dodge,
=================================================
OFFENSE
=================================================
Speed 30 ft.
Melee estoc +1 (keen) +12/+7 (2d4+5/15-20)
Power Attack estoc +1 (keen) +10/+5 (2d4+11/15-20)
Combat Expertise w/Swordplay Style estoc +1 (keen) +12/+6 (2d4+5/15-20)
Power Attack + Combat Expertise w/Swordplay Style estoc +1 (keen) +10/+4 (2d4+11/15-20)
Class Spell-Like Abilities silent image (DC 15,1/day)
=================================================
STATISTICS
=================================================
Str 14, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 18,
Base Atk +7; CMB +11; CMD 30
Feats Advanced Weapon Training (Versatile Training), Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Estoc), Mobility, Power Attack, Swordplay Style, Weapon Focus (Estoc)
Skills Acrobatics +18, Appraise +12, Bluff +14, Climb +8, Diplomacy +14, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +12, Perception +12, Perform (Dance) +9, Ride +13, Sleight of Hand +18, Stealth +18, Swim +8,
Traits Indomitable Faith, Threatening Defender
Languages Common
SQ bonus feat, bonus feats, darkvision, expertise, maneuver mastery, ninja trick, scholastic, shadow illusion, skilled, style master (swordplay style), summon shadow, versatile training (heavy blades, bluff, diplomacy), weapon training,
Combat Gear
Other Gear amulet of natural armor +1, headband of alluring charisma +2, curve blade, elven +1 (keen), ring of protection +1, belt of incredible dexterity +2, cloak of resistance +2, studded leather +2 (darkleaf cloth), quick runner's shirt, feather step slippers, 845.0 gp
=================================================
SPECIAL ABILITIES
=================================================
Add Skills (Appraise, Appraise, Appraise, Appraise, Appraise, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Dungeoneering))
Bonus Feat Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.
Bonus Feats At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called "fighter bonus feats." Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.
Darkvision (Ex) Range 90 ft.; Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise-invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.
Darkvision (Ex) At 2nd level, a shadowdancer gains darkvision out to a range of 60 feet. If she already has darkvision, the range increases by 30 feet.
Evasion
Expertise (Ex) At 2nd level, a lore warden gains Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, even if he would not normally qualify for this feat. This ability replaces bravery 1.
Hide in Plain Sight (Su) A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Indomitable Faith You were born in a region where your faith was not popular, but you still have never abandoned it. Your constant struggle to maintain your own faith has bolstered your drive. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Will saves.
Maneuver Mastery (Ex) At 3rd level, a lore warden gains a +2 bonus on all CMB checks and to his CMD. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level, +6 at 11th level, and +8 at 15th level. This ability replaces armor training 1.
Ninja Trick (Ex) A rogue with this talent can choose a trick from the ninja trick list (see pages 14-16). The rogue can choose but cannot use talents that require ki points, unless she has a ki pool. A rogue can pick this talent more than once. The rogue cannot choose a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent.
Scholastic (Ex) Lore wardens gain 2 additional skill ranks each level. These ranks must be spent on Intelligence-based skills. All Intelligence-based skills are class skills for lore wardens. This ability replaces the lore warden's proficiency with medium armor, heavy armor, and shields.
Shadow Illusion (Sp) When a shadowdancer reaches 3rd level, she can create visual illusions. This ability functions as silent image, using the shadowdancer's level as the caster level. A shadowdancer can use this ability once per day for every two shadowdancer levels she has attained. The DC for this ability is Charisma-based.
Skilled Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.
Style Master (Swordplay Style) A ninja who selects this ninja trick gains a style feat that she qualifies for as a bonus feat.
Summon Shadow (Su) At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow's alignment matches that of the shadowdancer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned shadow receives a +4 bonus on Will saves made to halve the damage from positive channeled energy and the shadow cannot be turned or commanded. This shadow serves as a companion to the shadowdancer and can communicate intelligibly with the shadowdancer. This shadow has a number of hit points equal to half the shadowdancer's total. The shadow uses the shadowdancer's base attack bonus and base save bonuses. Otherwise, this shadow is identical to the shadow found in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary. If a shadow companion is destroyed, or the shadowdancer chooses to dismiss it, the shadowdancer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the shadowdancer gains one permanent negative level. A successful saving throw avoids this negative level. A destroyed or dismissed shadow companion cannot be replaced for 30 days.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) You can react to danger before your senses would normally allow you to do so. You cannot be caught flat-footed, nor do you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. You still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. You can still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against you.
Versatile Training (Ex) The fighter can use his base attack bonus in place of his ranks in two skills of his choice that are associated with the fighter weapon group he has chosen with this option (see below). The fighter need not be wielding an associated weapon to use this option. When using versatile training, the fighter substitutes his total base attack bonus (including his base attack bonus gained through levels in other classes) for his ranks in these skills, but adds the skill's usual ability score modifier and any other bonuses or penalties that would modify those skills. Once the skills have been selected, they cannot be changed and the fighter can immediately retrain all of his skill ranks in the selected skills at no additional cost in money or time. In addition, the fighter adds all skills chosen with this option to his list of class skills. A fighter can choose this option up to two times. The Bluff and Intimidate skills are associated with all fighter weapon groups. The various fighter weapon groups also have the following associated skills: axes (Climb, Survival), bows (Knowledge [engineering], Perception), close (Sense Motive, Stealth), crossbows (Perception, Stealth), double (Acrobatics, Sense Motive), firearms (Perception, Sleight of Hand), flails (Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand), hammers (Diplomacy, Ride), heavy blades (Diplomacy, Ride), light blades (Diplomacy, Sleight of Hand), monk (Acrobatics, Escape Artist), natural (Climb, Fly, Swim), polearms (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), siege engines (Disable Device, Profession [driver]), spears (Handle Animal, Ride), and thrown (Acrobatics, Perception). Heavy Blades (Bluff, Diplomacy)
Weapon Training (Ex) Attacks with a weapon from listed groups, gain a bonus on attack and damage rolls. (Included in weapon blocks) Heavy Blades +1
And his buddy:
Buddy
Male Companion Shadow shadow companion 3
None Medium undead (incorporeal, undead)
Init +2, Senses darkvision (60 ft.); Perception +8
=================================================
DEFENSE
=================================================
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 12 (+2 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 dodge, )
hp 32 ((1d8)+6)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +4
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +2, incorporeal, Immunities ability drain, death effects, death from massive damage, disease, energy drain, exhaustion, fatigue, mind-affecting effects, nonlethal damage, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning,
=================================================
OFFENSE
=================================================
Speed Fly 40 ft. (Good)
Melee incorporeal touch +9 (1d6)
Special Attacks Strength Damage (1d6/touch),
=================================================
STATISTICS
=================================================
Str *, Dex 14, Con *, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 15,
Base Atk +7; CMB +9; CMD 22
Feats Dodge, Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills Fly +11, Perception +8, Stealth +8,
SQ +4 bonus on will saves made to halve the damage from positive channeled energy, cannot be turned or commanded, darkvision,
Combat Gear
Other Gear incorporeal touch, 0.0 gp
=================================================
SPECIAL ABILITIES
=================================================
+4 bonus on Will saves made to halve the damage from positive channeled energy
Cannot be turned or commanded
Channel Resistance (Ex) You are less easily affected by clerics or paladins. You add +2 to saves made to resist the effects of channel energy, including effects that rely on the use of channel energy.
Darkvision (Ex) Range 60 ft.; Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise-invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.
Immunity to Ability Drain (Ex) You are immune to ability drain attacks.
Immunity to Death Effects (Ex) You are never subject to death effects.
Immunity to Death from Massive Damage (Ex) You are not at risk of death from massive damage.
Immunity to Disease (Ex) You are never subject to disease effects.
Immunity to Energy Drain (Ex) You are immune to energy drain attacks.
Immunity to Exhaustion (Ex) You can never be exhausted.
Immunity to Fatigue (Ex) You can never be fatigued.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting Effects (Ex) You are never affected by mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage (Ex) You are never subject to nonlethal damage.
Immunity to Paralysis (Ex) You can never be paralyzed.
Immunity to Poison (Ex) You never take poison damage.
Immunity to Sleep (Ex) You are never subject to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning (Ex) You are never subject to stunning.
Incorporeal (Ex) You have no physical body. You can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. You have no physical body. You can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. You are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, you take only half damage from a corporeal source except for channel energy. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting you. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect you normally.
Strength Damage (Su) A shadow's touch deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living creature. This is a negative energy effect. A creature dies if this Strength damage equals or exceeds its actual Strength score.
I've used this build, but mine was Mutagen Warrior variant. It will out DPR most any other fighter type and has skills to back it's purpose.
Except, you know, another Mutation Warrior Fighter that focuses on STR.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Assuming that you can use the Agile weapon property - well really, even if you can't use it it doesn't matter that much by level 12 - you could do something like this:
Human or Half Elf: 14STR, 18/20DEX (+2levels)(+6Belt), 14CON, 16INT(+1levels), 12WIS, 12CHA
Urban Barbarian 1/ Spell Sage Wizard 6/ Eldritch Knight 6+
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
1UB. Weapon Finesse / +Human Bonus or Half-Elf Ancestral Arms: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Estoc
2SS.
3SS. Extra Rage (12/day)
4SS.
5SS. Extra Rage (18/day)
6SS. +Wizard: Heighten Spell
7SS. Preferred Spell: Divine Favor
8EK. +Power Attack
9EK. Dimensional Agility
10EK.
11EK. Dimensional Assault
12EK. +Fighter: Improved Critical: Estoc
13EK. Dimensional Dervish
Weapon: +1 Agile, Furious, Spell Storing Estoc ~ add Greater Magic Weapon with the Spell Focus Power at the start of the day. By level 12, it's a +6 weapon while using Controlled Rage. Cast whatever spell into Spell Storing you want - Enervation is actually a pretty thematic choice to slap dangerous enemies with.
Armor: +1 Silken Ceremonial Armor, whatever properties you want ~ add Magic Vestment (Cleric) at the start of the day. By level 12 it will be a +4 enhancement 1AC armor that won't get in the way of your +9-11AC.
Spells: Divine Favor for each battle grants +5 attack and damage (4 +Fate's Favored). Heroism can generally be kept running for another +2 to attack and saves since it lasts 2 hours by level 12. Mirror Image is extremely useful defense, and Shield is an easy +4AC. Beyond that, there's an absolute ton of other stuff... 5+ levels of Wizard spells to pore over.
Anyhow with Divine Favor, Heroism, Controlled Rage and an Agile, Furious Estoc in two hands with (Spell Focus) Greater Magic Weapon cast on it, attack and damage using Power Attack is pretty absurd. Controlled Raged should bring DEX up to 32, and there's something like +13 to attack from buffs.
Except, you know, another Mutation Warrior Fighter that focuses on STR.
I've used this build, but mine was Mutagen Warrior variant. It will out DPR most any other fighter type and has skills to back it's purpose.
It's easy to say "yea, but". Let's see the numbers.
Also, oddgoblin specifically referenced Artemis Entreri. In the FRCS he's listed as a fighter/rogue. A terrible build but luckily PF fixed a few of those issues.
This again?
Point buy, trait numbers, level for comparison, WBL?
Also, oddgoblin specifically referenced Artemis Entreri. In the FRCS he's listed as a fighter/rogue. A terrible build but luckily PF fixed a few of those issues.
This is true, but I was talking about your assessment about damage, not the concept :P
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Arcane Anthology has a couple of interesting options for this type of character.
You could try Eldritch Scoundrel with Unchained Rogue. Fewer skills, fewer Rogue Talents, and less Sneak Attack, but gain 6th level spellcasting.
Or, try a Puppetmaster Magus. Better at using enchantment & illusion spells for infiltration, and can take Flamboyant Arcana to gain Opportune Parry & Riposte.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
BadBird, tell me please: and be sure to use estoc to build, or it can be replaced ?
|
With those stats - no one else is thinking - Kensai 11/Umonk 1? (maybe Umonk up to 2 for another feat & evasion)
He'd get 3 stats to AC, 4 to CMD, and Umonk's flurry works dandy with dips (An extra full BAB attack with no penalty? Yes please.), and the ability to make unarmed attacks can work with some touch spells without bothering with Spell Combat. (Cast Shocking Grasp before the battle begins and using the extra flurry attack for a kick to deliver it with? Check! Plus make it a stunning fist and hope they roll poorly.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You could go bladebound kensai magus. High AC and different spells to do neat things.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd say Kensai without bladebound.
This again?
Point buy, trait numbers, level for comparison, WBL?
Use the array provided by oddgoblin, level 10, WBL is fine.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
BadBird, tell me please: and be sure to use estoc to build, or it can be replaced ?
I'm not sure I understand you, but estoc isn't necessary. You can do the exact same thing with an elven curved blade, elven branched spear or aldori dueling sword, and you can do something very similar with a rapier or scimitar.
Use the array provided by oddgoblin, level 10, WBL is fine.This again?
Point buy, trait numbers, level for comparison, WBL?
Are we doing loldamage or should I get the staples (Iron Will, Versatile Training, etc.)?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you, sorry, English is not my native language...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you, sorry, English is not my native language...
You speak English better than I speak anything that isn't English, so...
Are we doing loldamage or should I get the staples (Iron Will, Versatile Training, etc.)?Use the array provided by oddgoblin, level 10, WBL is fine.This again?
Point buy, trait numbers, level for comparison, WBL?
I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the term "loldamage"
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, here's the balanced build... it doesn't take all the damage option, but it has balanced defenses, utility and offense.
Race
Human
Archetype
Mutation Warrior
Attributes
S16+2 D18 C14 I14 W12 CH12
Traits
Defender of the Society, Indomitable Faith
Feats and Stuff
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Cosmopolitan (two extra languages, Perception and Sense Motive as class skills), Weapon Focus (kukri)
2. Double Slice
3. Iron Will
4. Weapon Specialization, +1 STR
5. Weapon Training (light blades), Versatile Training (Bluff, Intimidate)
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Power Attack, Discovery: Wings
8. Greater Weapon Focus, +1 STR
9. Improved Critical, Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon
10. Armed Bravery
Gear 2x +1 kukri, Belt of Physical Perfection +2, +2 Mithral Breastplate, +2 Cloak of Resistance, +1 Ring of Protection, Jingasa, Gloves of Dueling, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (cracked, attacks), 1k gold extra
STATS AT 10 (WITH MUTAGEN, FOR 100 MINUTES PER DAY)
S26 D20 C16 I12 W12 CH12
HP 10d10+30 (average 90)
Initiative +5
Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +10
AC 29 (10+8 armor+1 def+1 luck+1 trait+3 natural+5 dex)
Attacks
+21/+21/+16/+16, 15-20/2x critical rate
MH: 1d10+21
OH: 1d10+18
Average DPR vs. 24 AC (average for enemy this level): 107.41 (and doesn't require flanking or anything :P)
Skills
5 skill ranks per level + Bluff and Intimidate maxed (total 7 max ranks)
I skipped a lot, but what about straight Kensai Magus?
Assuming that you can use the Agile weapon property - well really, even if you can't use it it doesn't matter that much by level 12 - you could do something like this:
Human or Half Elf: 14STR, 18/20DEX (+2levels)(+6Belt), 14CON, 16INT(+1levels), 12WIS, 12CHA
Urban Barbarian 1/ Spell Sage Wizard 6/ Eldritch Knight 6+
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack1UB. Weapon Finesse / +Human Bonus or Half-Elf Ancestral Arms: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Estoc
2SS.
3SS. Extra Rage (12/day)
4SS.
5SS. Extra Rage (18/day)
6SS. +Wizard: Heighten Spell
7SS. Preferred Spell: Divine Favor
8EK. +Power Attack
9EK. Dimensional Agility
10EK.
11EK. Dimensional Assault
12EK. +Fighter: Improved Critical: Estoc
13EK. Dimensional DervishWeapon: +1 Agile, Furious, Spell Storing Estoc ~ add Greater Magic Weapon with the Spell Focus Power at the start of the day. By level 12, it's a +6 weapon while using Controlled Rage. Cast whatever spell into Spell Storing you want - Enervation is actually a pretty thematic choice to slap dangerous enemies with.
Armor: +1 Silken Ceremonial Armor, whatever properties you want ~ add Magic Vestment (Cleric) at the start of the day. By level 12 it will be a +4 enhancement 1AC armor that won't get in the way of your +9-11AC.
Spells: Divine Favor for each battle grants +5 attack and damage (4 +Fate's Favored). Heroism can generally be kept running for another +2 to attack and saves since it lasts 2 hours by level 12. Mirror Image is extremely useful defense, and Shield is an easy +4AC. Beyond that, there's an absolute ton of other stuff... 5+ levels of Wizard spells to pore over.
Anyhow with Divine Favor, Heroism, Controlled Rage and an Agile, Furious Estoc in two hands with (Spell Focus) Greater Magic Weapon cast on it, attack and damage using Power Attack is pretty absurd. Controlled Raged should bring DEX up to 32, and there's something like +13 to attack from buffs.
If you were going to modify this for two weapon fighting with a kukri in the offhand, what changes would you make to it?
If you were going to modify this for two weapon fighting with a kukri in the offhand, what changes would you make to it?Human or Half Elf: 14STR, 18/20DEX (+2levels)(+6Belt), 14CON, 16INT(+1levels), 12WIS, 12CHA
Urban Barbarian 1/ Spell Sage Wizard 6/ Eldritch Knight 6+
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack1UB. Weapon Finesse / +Human Bonus or Half-Elf Ancestral Arms: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Estoc
2SS.
3SS. Extra Rage (12/day)
4SS.
5SS. Extra Rage (18/day)
6SS. +Wizard: Heighten Spell
7SS. Preferred Spell: Divine Favor
8EK. +Power Attack
9EK. Dimensional Agility
10EK.
11EK. Dimensional Assault
12EK. +Fighter: Improved Critical: Estoc
13EK. Dimensional Dervish
Converting this to TWF has issues, since it would need Quick Draw on top of the two-weapon feats and it's already spending all the higher-level feats to get Dimensional Dervish. You could ditch estoc proficiency, Improved Critical and Power Attack to get Quick Draw, Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (ignoring Double Slice). With an Agile rapier/kukri combo it would still hit about as often since there's no Power Attack, and it would deal about the same damage on a full attack because you're adding so much through buffs. It just means that you'd need to buy two expensive weapons (add Keen to the list of properties you'd want) to get to the same place.
It would be a lot easier to make it work with two weapons if you ditched Urban Barbarian for Swashbuckler, but Controlled Rage + Furious weapon is a huge combat buff to give up.
|
Even with the FAQ on the Furious enchantment?
It would be a lot easier to make it work with two weapons if you ditched Urban Barbarian for Swashbuckler, but Controlled Rage + Furious weapon is a huge combat buff to give up.
What FAQ?
Are you thinking of Courageous? Because that got nerfed, but Furious still works fine.
If you were going to modify this for two weapon fighting with a kukri in the offhand, what changes would you make to it?Human or Half Elf: 14STR, 18/20DEX (+2levels)(+6Belt), 14CON, 16INT(+1levels), 12WIS, 12CHA
Urban Barbarian 1/ Spell Sage Wizard 6/ Eldritch Knight 6+
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack1UB. Weapon Finesse / +Human Bonus or Half-Elf Ancestral Arms: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Estoc
2SS.
3SS. Extra Rage (12/day)
4SS.
5SS. Extra Rage (18/day)
6SS. +Wizard: Heighten Spell
7SS. Preferred Spell: Divine Favor
8EK. +Power Attack
9EK. Dimensional Agility
10EK.
11EK. Dimensional Assault
12EK. +Fighter: Improved Critical: Estoc
13EK. Dimensional DervishConverting this to TWF has issues, since it would need Quick Draw on top of the two-weapon feats and it's already spending all the higher-level feats to get Dimensional Dervish. You could ditch estoc proficiency, Improved Critical and Power Attack to get Quick Draw, Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (ignoring Double Slice). With an Agile rapier/kukri combo it would still hit about as often since there's no Power Attack, and it would deal about the same damage on a full attack because you're adding so much through buffs. It just means that you'd need to buy two expensive weapons (add Keen to the list of properties you'd want) to get to the same place.
It would be a lot easier to make it work with two weapons if you ditched Urban Barbarian for Swashbuckler, but Controlled Rage + Furious weapon is a huge combat buff to give up.
Makes sense. I'll stick to the single weapon then and not bother wasting the feats. Would it be feasible to make the same build as an Elf and use an Elven Curve Blade or would things need to be changed around? I was contemplating switching one or two of the Extra Rage feats for the prerequisites for Arcane Archer and running him as a switch hitter, dropping spells and arrows at enemies before Dimensionally Assaulting to close in and shred them with his sword.
|
Even with the FAQ on the Furious enchantment?
It would be a lot easier to make it work with two weapons if you ditched Urban Barbarian for Swashbuckler, but Controlled Rage + Furious weapon is a huge combat buff to give up.What FAQ?
Are you thinking of Courageous? Because that got nerfed, but Furious still works fine.
It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging. The skill bonuses are not really worth mentioning.
Granted, you should be raging all the time, but even still, it's not that much of a difference.
And if you want to use TWF on a Barbarian, forget Urban and go Unchained. The flat bonus to hit and damage helps TWF more than a scaling dex bonus, and Accurate Stance adds more accuracy on top of it, while keeping the survivability of the temp HP buffer.
|
|
Even with the FAQ on the Furious enchantment?
It would be a lot easier to make it work with two weapons if you ditched Urban Barbarian for Swashbuckler, but Controlled Rage + Furious weapon is a huge combat buff to give up.What FAQ?
Are you thinking of Courageous? Because that got nerfed, but Furious still works fine.
That's right - my bad. (I've never actually played a barbarian. :P)
It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging. The skill bonuses are not really worth mentioning.
Does the +2 it gives help the weapon to bypass DR? The text isn't too clear.
|
|
That's right - my bad. (I've never actually played a barbarian. :P)
No worries, just clarifying.
It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging. The skill bonuses are not really worth mentioning.
On its own? Sure. But Rage is already +2 to hit and damage, add in Furious a nd that's +3 each and what was being referred to as a 'large bonus'.
Also, you can eventually have a +5 Furious weapon, and thus a +7 weapon whenever raging. That's shiny.
I dunno if it's worth it on this build, but it has things to recommend it.
Does the +2 it gives help the weapon to bypass DR? The text isn't too clear.
It increases the enhancement bonus rather than giving it's own bonus, so yes, it does. Which is pretty cool.
Well, here's the balanced build... it doesn't take all the damage option, but it has balanced defenses, utility and offense.
Race
HumanArchetype
Mutation WarriorAttributes
S16+2 D18 C14 I14 W12 CH12Traits
Defender of the Society, Indomitable FaithFeats and Stuff
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Cosmopolitan (two extra languages, Perception and Sense Motive as class skills), Weapon Focus (kukri)
2. Double Slice
3. Iron Will
4. Weapon Specialization, +1 STR
5. Weapon Training (light blades), Versatile Training (Bluff, Intimidate)
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Power Attack, Discovery: Wings
8. Greater Weapon Focus, +1 STR
9. Improved Critical, Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon
10. Armed BraveryGear 2x +1 kukri, Belt of Physical Perfection +2, +2 Mithral Breastplate, +2 Cloak of Resistance, +1 Ring of Protection, Jingasa, Gloves of Dueling, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (cracked, attacks), 1k gold extra
STATS AT 10 (WITH MUTAGEN, FOR 100 MINUTES PER DAY)
S26 D20 C16 I12 W12 CH12HP 10d10+30 (average 90)
Initiative +5
Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +10AC 29 (10+8 armor+1 def+1 luck+1 trait+3 natural+5 dex)
Attacks
+21/+21/+16/+16, 15-20/2x critical rate
MH: 1d10+21
OH: 1d10+18Average DPR vs. 24 AC (average for enemy this level): 107.41 (and doesn't require flanking or anything :P)
Skills
5 skill ranks per level + Bluff and Intimidate maxed (total 7 max ranks)
I love it. Looks like we had a lot of the same ideas. I don't know why people like to bash two-weapon fighters so much. I prefer them. Here's mine posted at the Pathfinder Olympics. Sorry about the formatting.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mhpi&page=8?The-DPR-Summer-Olympics-or-Wha t-are-we#359
Oops, link was garbage. Also, the stats aren't based off his but whatever we used for the thread (which I know we're lower.)
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mhpi&page=last?The-DPR-Summer-Olympics-or- What-are-we
Pretty hilarious we are breaking even! I think mine grows better (mostly because it's closer to Greater Mutagen), but they seem very competitive.
Makes sense. I'll stick to the single weapon then and not bother wasting the feats. Would it be feasible to make the same build as an Elf and use an Elven Curve Blade or would things need to be changed around? I was contemplating switching one or two of the Extra Rage feats for the prerequisites for Arcane Archer and running him as a switch hitter, dropping spells and arrows at enemies before Dimensionally Assaulting to close in and shred them with his sword.
Running it as an Elf using a curved blade means you don't need to spend a feat on a weapon, so it's just fine that way.
Depending on how much fighting you have to do in a day you might get away with dropping one Extra Rage, but I personally wouldn't want to have less than 18/day. Going switch-hitter and Arcane Archer isn't possible without reworking the build, since that's way too many feats even if you're going to be a half-assed archer. If you really want a ranged attack option, you've got level 5+ Wizard Spells.
EDIT: If you're allowed to "retrain" a feat while building the character, you could swap out one Extra Rage for Preferred Spell: Holy Ice. Each javelin launched by Holy Ice gets the bonuses from Divine Favor, so by level 12 it would be 12 x 1d6+1+5 javelins launched at the enemy. Shreds Mirror Image, among other things.
It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging.
The thing is, for a character who can cast Greater Magic Weapon +4 on a weapon, Furious isn't giving up any enhancement - it's just making the weapon a +6. So giving up rage loses a combined +4 to attack and damage from dexterity and furious (and +2AC). It's not the end of the world, but it's a pretty big loss if the idea is to be a melee monster.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging.The thing is, for a character who can cast Greater Magic Weapon +4 on a weapon, Furious isn't giving up any enhancement - it's just making the weapon a +6. So giving up rage loses a combined +4 to attack and damage from dexterity and furious (and +2AC). It's not the end of the world, but it's a pretty big loss if the idea is to be a melee monster.
That doesn't work though. A +1 furious weapon has a +3 enhancement bonus when raging. The +4 enhancement bonus from greater magic weapon won't stack with it. Furious only enhances the base weapon, not a temporary bonus granted by a spell.
That doesn't work though. A +1 furious weapon has a +3 enhancement bonus when raging. The +4 enhancement bonus from greater magic weapon won't stack with it. Furious only enhances the base weapon, not a temporary bonus granted by a spell.It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging.The thing is, for a character who can cast Greater Magic Weapon +4 on a weapon, Furious isn't giving up any enhancement - it's just making the weapon a +6. So giving up rage loses a combined +4 to attack and damage from dexterity and furious (and +2AC). It's not the end of the world, but it's a pretty big loss if the idea is to be a melee monster.
Greater Magic Weapon says "This spell functions like magic weapon, except that it gives a weapon an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5)".
Furious weapon says "When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal."
Why wouldn't Furious work with the enhancement bonus on the weapon as it is? It's not a question of 'stacking' when Greater Magic Weapon makes the enhancement X and then Furious makes it 2 more than X.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That doesn't work though. A +1 furious weapon has a +3 enhancement bonus when raging. The +4 enhancement bonus from greater magic weapon won't stack with it. Furious only enhances the base weapon, not a temporary bonus granted by a spell.It works, but it's not really a huge combat buff to give up. A +1 Furious weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, but it only has +1 to hit and damage over a +2 weapon when raging at the cost of a -1 when not raging.The thing is, for a character who can cast Greater Magic Weapon +4 on a weapon, Furious isn't giving up any enhancement - it's just making the weapon a +6. So giving up rage loses a combined +4 to attack and damage from dexterity and furious (and +2AC). It's not the end of the world, but it's a pretty big loss if the idea is to be a melee monster.Greater Magic Weapon says "This spell functions like magic weapon, except that it gives a weapon an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5)".
Furious weapon says "When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal."
Why wouldn't Furious work with the enhancement bonus on the weapon as it is? It's not a question of 'stacking' when Greater Magic Weapon makes the enhancement X and then Furious makes it 2 more than X.
As you said, Furious weapon says "When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than ."
The weapons normal enhancement bonus is +1, so when raging the enhancement bonus is +3. Greater magic weapon grants an enhancement bonus of +4, completely overlapping the enhancement bonus granted by a furious weapon.
You have two sources of an enhancement bonus. +3 from the weapon, and +4 from the spell. The spell is the higher bonus, so it is what applies.
The weapons normal enhancement bonus is +1,
The enhancement bonus of a +1 weapon with Greater Magic Weapon +4 cast on it is normally +4.
It seems pretty straightforward to me that the word "normal", in the context of a property that increases a value to "+2 better than normal", is referencing what the value actually is when the effect is applied.
If there was a feat that said "for one round, the character's strength is +4 better than normal", would you say that a character using Rage or Bull's Strength got no benefit because "normal" must refer to their base strength? Or would you read "normal" in the context of the situation?
|
|
Except that Greater Magic Weapon isn't a "normal" enhancement bonus. It's a spell effect. The base weapon doesn't need to be masterwork, and it doesn't allow a weapon to bypass any DR other than magic.
The weapon enhancement is enhancing the base weapon, and the spell effect is a flat enhancement bonus that is laying on top of the weapon.
This doesn't matter for most +x enhancements because they do not provide an additional enhancement bonus. But for furious, or bane, the +2 is applied to the weapon, not any temporary spell effects.
This would allow the weapon to bypass DR cold iron and silver, but it only has a +4 to hit and damage.